I not too sure about this game

I not too sure about this game (Full Version)

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Hard Sarge -> I not too sure about this game (5/29/2006 6:59:48 PM)
Picked it up last night, and been playing around with it where do they get there stats from ? a pitcher who is known to throw in the high 90's and has thrown over 100 mph is rated at 65, but everybody on the other teams is rated higher ? 42 doubles and 16 SBs is a 50 speed ? think the AI cheats a bit too call a pitch out, he steals ?, grounds out to the SS, and he advances to 3rd ?, hit a shallow fly ball to LF, he scores ? play 3 games, and team is pitching good, but all 3 games, the AI pitch hits, and back to back pitch hits, not bad, 6 hits in row for these two guys ?, not bad kind of hate having to get hit after hit to score a run, got 4 hits in a inning, last game, scored 1 run, and that was only because the first batter hit a HR, but I seem to have many 3 hit, no run innings, while the AI, seems to be lucky, error ? HR follows, walk, HR follows odd when you get 14 hits and 7 walks and just get the win, while the AI gets 6 hits and no walks, and almost pulls it out also seems, like any -2 count on you is a strike out (10 games so far and only have seen 1 -2 count on me that didn't end in a strike out, the other was a pop up) but the AI gets hits on 0-2 counts of course, I am also known for having lousy die rolling luck, so it may just be luck of the roll, and will even out some day (year ?) over all, looks like it could be a good game

Amaroq -> RE: I not too sure about this game (5/30/2006 2:48:20 AM)
Stats - since the game generates ratings from the Lahman database, which doesn't contain 'speed of thrown pitch' or 'arm strength', he generates the numbers from data that is there. In the case of Velocity, the game influence of Velocity is more chance of a strike out, so a pitcher who gets lots of strikeouts will be viewed as a high-Velocity pitcher in the game's eyes. This misses the idea that your real-life pitcher with a 100-mph fastball might not have any good break on the ball, and might not be able to give the subtle variations in fastball speed that make it an effective pitch. The AI does not operate with any knowledge that you or I can't see, and doesn't have any foreknowledge of events. So I don't think it 'cheats'. The call for a 'pitchout' doesn't preclude a stolen base by any means. It just means 'pitch out if the count is right for a pitchout.' So, if the pitcher can't throw strikes, and he's reached a 2-0 count, he's got to be more concerned with throwing a strike than with the runner - so a stolen base is reasonable. I've seen plenty of runners advance from second to third on ground balls to short IRL. (Imagine it not directly to the shortstop, say if he's ranging away from third base towards second, for a ball near the limit of his range.) A shallow fly ball, well he has a chance to score, but more often than not I see my outfielders gun people down on the shallow fly. As for needing 4-hits to score, I'm not experiencing that - the top of my order at least seems to knock people in from second on singles, and gets plenty of doubles and triples to create runs on two hits.

tbear2b -> RE: I not too sure about this game (5/30/2006 3:33:25 AM)
Also regarding the " 42 doubles and 16 SBs is a 50 speed ?", the game does rate people on a comparative basis, rather than an absolute basis. So a 50 speed might be really good, or could be really bad, based upon what other players are like that year. A lot of the other things just sound like random things that happen. I have played over 40 games (managing each one) and have had one game where I walked in the winning run, one game where I scored six runs in the bottom of the ninth to win, etc. but for every game like that, I have four that are somewhat dull endings. I think it's just the randomness of what it really is like in baseball. Try some more games and see.

Hard Sarge -> RE: I not too sure about this game (5/30/2006 2:25:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Amaroq Stats - since the game generates ratings from the Lahman database, which doesn't contain 'speed of thrown pitch' or 'arm strength', he generates the numbers from data that is there. In the case of Velocity, the game influence of Velocity is more chance of a strike out, so a pitcher who gets lots of strikeouts will be viewed as a high-Velocity pitcher in the game's eyes. This misses the idea that your real-life pitcher with a 100-mph fastball might not have any good break on the ball, and might not be able to give the subtle variations in fastball speed that make it an effective pitch. I don't know, here are some of my Pitchers 196.2 Innings, and 161 K's, 65 202 Innings, and 143 K's, 65 210.2 Innings, and 119 K's, 53 181.2 Innings, and 103 K's, 54 the 2nd guy is as good a Strikeout pitcher as the first ? 30.2 Innings, and 29 K's, 53 40.1 Innings, and 32 K's, 16 ahhh, one of those is a flamethrower, but still a Minor player, those are his call up stats, the other is not as much a flamethrower, but there is some hope for him I don't think, the Data is being pulled on all the players, just the "known" players or teams I have seen this before in super Stat games before, one I had, had Thome and Giles as Right Handed batters The AI does not operate with any knowledge that you or I can't see, and doesn't have any foreknowledge of events. So I don't think it 'cheats'. why would the AI need to know things, to have a "Edge" The call for a 'pitchout' doesn't preclude a stolen base by any means. It just means 'pitch out if the count is right for a pitchout.' So, if the pitcher can't throw strikes, and he's reached a 2-0 count, he's got to be more concerned with throwing a strike than with the runner - so a stolen base is reasonable. I've seen plenty of runners advance from second to third on ground balls to short IRL. (Imagine it not directly to the shortstop, say if he's ranging away from third base towards second, for a ball near the limit of his range.) A shallow fly ball, well he has a chance to score, but more often than not I see my outfielders gun people down on the shallow fly. I can give you those two, as it is more what we see then what is really going on, the game really does need to be more Verbose (?) As for needing 4-hits to score, I'm not experiencing that - the top of my order at least seems to knock people in from second on singles, and gets plenty of doubles and triples to create runs on two hits. one thing I find strange, is to be asked if you want to advance on a shallow fly ball, but not on a double to the wall, the runner on first is going to stop at third now, my team may be a little slow (which I think is wrong, Speed and running skill, has nothing to do with SB totals) but I do not like the idea of editing the stats, just on what I feel they should be, unless I find a stat base to compare what i am getting and what others are getting don't get me wrong, I like the game but think it could be better

Amaroq -> RE: I not too sure about this game (5/30/2006 10:47:45 PM)
quote: I don't know, here are some of my Pitchers 196.2 Innings, and 161 K's, 65 202 Innings, and 143 K's, 65 210.2 Innings, and 119 K's, 53 181.2 Innings, and 103 K's, 54 the 2nd guy is as good a Strikeout pitcher as the first ? I'm reading this as in-game stats on the left, and 'Velocity' on the right? I'd expect that you'd see a big difference in the 'Stuff' and/or 'Control' of those two pitchers, with the first being demonstrably 'better' than the second. Velocity is an influence, but I don't think its the only deciding factor in a strikeout - I've had a pitcher with Velocity of 19 (on a 100-point scale!) get a reasonable number of strikeouts. quote: I don't think, the Data is being pulled on all the players, just the "known" players or teams. The data is pulled for all real players, even players who had a single at-bat in their MLB career! The game uses the Lahman database - see http://www.baseball1.com/statistics/ for more information about the DB. quote: I have seen this before in super Stat games before, one I had, had Thome and Giles as Right Handed batters If such a mistake occurred in PureSim, it would be a problem with the data in the Lahman database, not with the game. However, there are some entertaining "mistakes" the game commonly mistakes, one of which is that the player's position is determined based on his position the first year of his career. So, if you had a guy who started out as an outfielder, but moved to first base by his third season, he'd show up as an OF. This is most noticeable for a certain gentleman who hit 714 home runs - but shows up in the game as a weak-hitting pitcher if you start prior to 1919. quote: > The AI does not operate with any knowledge that you or I can't see, > and doesn't have any foreknowledge of events. So I don't think it 'cheats'. why would the AI need to know things, to have a "Edge" There are three typical types of computer-game cheating. One is "the AI can see things that the human can't". Two is "the AI can see the future, and make decisions based on that knowledge." Three is "the odds of the outcome of an event are different if the human player is involved." None of these are present in PureSim - and if you really want to rile Shaun up, suggest that they are. [:D] He takes pride in the fact that the game doesn't cheat, and has said so on many occasions. quote: I can give you those two, as it is more what we see then what is really going on, the game really does need to be more Verbose (?) I agree with you on that. If that's really the direction you want, it looks like OOTPB 2006 (the direct competitior to PureSim 2007) is more verbose in its play-by-play description. It also solves the 'pitch out' problem a bit differently, by letting you manage some at bats pitch-by-pitch, and manage others with the whole at bat. So, for example, you might send your leadoff hitter up there with the instructions 'just do what you do' (resolve the whole at bat at once), then find out that he got a single. Great. The second hitter you might want to resolve pitch-by-pitch, so that you can suggest a steal, hit-and-run, or other such strategies depending on the pitch count. quote: one thing I find strange, is to be asked if you want to advance on a shallow fly ball, but not on a double to the wall, the runner on first is going to stop at third Yeah, I don't know why that is. I'd like to be able to be asked for everything, or asked for nothing, as an 'option'. quote: now, my team may be a little slow (which I think is wrong, Speed and running skill, has nothing to do with SB totals) Remember, the ratings are on a T-scale - so '50' is the average player in your association (all majors and minors put together). The player is neither fast nor slow. A '70' is noticeably speedier, especially in terms of getting extra bases. High-seventies seems to be ideal for stealing (77-79), as they're fast enough to succeed against the average catcher, but not fast enough that the AI feels a need to pitch-out every at bat. My speed 91 guy gets caught often! I'm not sure if 'Speed' is purely based on steals - I suspect its more complicated than that, and would expect it to be looking at Runs, Triples, Steals, and Caught Stealing, but I haven't done any sort of research to confirm or deny that. quote: but I do not like the idea of editing the stats, just on what I feel they should be, unless I find a stat base to compare what i am getting and what others are getting Fair enough. quote: don't get me wrong, I like the game but think it could be better We're in the same place, then! I love the genre, I like the game, and when I compare it to the richness and depth of SI's Football Manager, I can see plenty of ways it could be better... and in fact, I see places I can imagine improving FM as well. One of the joys of the genre, I think, is that it appeals to intelligent people... and intelligent people can always see ways the game could be better! [:D]

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