Help with convoying (Full Version)

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Richrd -> Help with convoying (6/18/2006 6:48:52 AM)

I set up a head to head May 42 campaign scenario. For thirty days all I did was send tankers and AK's out to collect oil and resources and return them to Osaka. I'm sure that the Japanese had entire ministries to coordinate the same endeavor and for me it was an ordeal. Like surface ASW patrols back and forth every single turn. Is there a rule of thumb for how many vessels assigned for how many oil or resource points for how far from Osaka?



ChezDaJez -> RE: Help with convoying (6/18/2006 8:29:45 AM)

The way I do it is I keep lots of AKs, TKs and escorts at my main resource centers such as Palembang, Balikpapen and others. As soon as the resources or oil get to a level that will fill all my ships, I load them up and send them to either Osaka, Hiroshima or Tokyo. I leave the homeport set to the port where they loaded so that they will return automatically when empty. I will occaionally have the empty ships load supplies depending upon my needs at the time.

If Allied LBA comes within range, then I send the ships out of that port and leave only one behind. As soon as its full, off it goes and another ship moves to the port. In this way, I hope to reduce the detection level to where I have a chance of getting the ships in and out without being spotted. They will join with their escort as soon as they are out of LBA range.

Chez



BrucePowers -> RE: Help with convoying (6/18/2006 6:12:04 PM)

I had forgotten about detection level. That's why my larger convoys keep getting nailed. I know I did not start this thread but, thank you.



madflava13 -> RE: Help with convoying (6/18/2006 6:42:39 PM)

Check Spooky's site - in the beginner's guide there is a long post by Mogami. He went through all the bases and broke down how many ships of what type and size you need per month to maximize your efforts. The numbers might have changed slightly with the newer patches, but it'll definitely get you in the right ballpark.

The few times I've tried playing as Japan, I've used his post as a framework and it's worked well for me.



Richrd -> RE: Help with convoying (6/19/2006 6:15:42 AM)

Yes thanks. I looked through my downloads for info on capacities. I've got lists for fuel, supplies, troops, guns and tanks but nothing for oil and resources. I just loaded a small tanker at a base with several thousand oil and only 400 were embarked??



dtravel -> RE: Help with convoying (6/19/2006 11:16:36 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Richrd

Yes thanks. I looked through my downloads for info on capacities. I've got lists for fuel, supplies, troops, guns and tanks but nothing for oil and resources. I just loaded a small tanker at a base with several thousand oil and only 400 were embarked??


That would be 400 that day. It might take several days to fully load the ship.

And no, you don't have to tell it to load every day. Once you have told it to start loading it will continue to do so until it either fills the ship or runs out of stuff to load, then set sail for its destination.



Ursa MAior -> RE: Help with convoying (6/19/2006 4:58:46 PM)

So if I understand correctly IJN auto convoy is solely respnsibel for keeping the bases supplied, not for hauling the resources and oil to the Home Islands.



aletoledo -> RE: Help with convoying (6/19/2006 6:43:53 PM)

Convoy's are easy!



Javakamp -> RE: Help with convoying (6/19/2006 7:49:26 PM)

Will a CS mission work for Resources? What I mean is if you base a TF at a base with resources and set it to load resources, and select a Home Island base for the DH. Can you then set the control to CS and then have the TF return and load more resources.



ChezDaJez -> RE: Help with convoying (6/19/2006 7:59:20 PM)

quote:

Will a CS mission work for Resources? What I mean is if you base a TF at a base with resources and set it to load resources, and select a Home Island base for the DH. Can you then set the control to CS and then have the TF return and load more resources.


A CS mission will only transport supply and fuel. Auto convoy will transport oil and resources to the home islands and return will fuel and supply. However, auto convoy can screw you in a heart beat. It will drain the home islands of supply if you let it. The best way to use auto convoy is to not use it. The second best way is to create a hub system and assign a few ships to auto convoy.

For example, set Singapore (or anyplace) as your hub. Your ships transport oil and resources to Singapore and unloads. Your auto convoy brings in supply and fuel to Singapore, loads the oil and resources and returns to the home islands. You then farm the supply and fuel in Singapore to where its needed. Pain in the ass to manage but I think its the best use of autoconvoy. Just don't trust it beyond that.

Chez



RUPD3658 -> RE: Help with convoying (6/19/2006 8:57:26 PM)

Make sure you expand the ports at your oil/resource bases to their max size. Most start as size 1 ports and take forever to load.



AmiralLaurent -> RE: Help with convoying (6/19/2006 9:02:20 PM)

I fully agree with Chez. Autoconvoy is screwed.

The best way to manage is to have big ports as hubs (Singapore for example). Small TK (9000-ton) and AK (3500-ton) will carry will carry oil and ressources from producing bases to the hub, where big AK (7000-ton) and TK (16000-ton) will carry it in big convoys to Japan.

The advantage is that smaller ships load faster in small ports that may produce things. And big convoys of big planes are faster and may be easily covered by less escort (for example create a 6-DD ASW group following them), while basing several bomber groups flying ASW in Singapore will cover most of the traffic around (in my case, Kuala Lumpur, Rangoon, Bankha, Medan, Palembang all sent oil and ressources by sea to Singapore, where also Malayan base sent ressources by rail (automatically)).
In the south I have a slightly different management. Small convoys carry oil/ressources from Batavia and Kendari to Soerabaja. A big convoy left Japan, will leave some ships at Tarakan, continue south and leave some in Balikpapan and reach Soerabaja where it will load, then come back and be joined off Balikpapan and Tarakan by the full ships. So the port size 4 in the Borneo port are no more a problem as the ships here will have 5-7 more days to load compared to those in Soerabaja (port size 9) and so will be ready when the convoy comes the other way.

Also if you have a big convoy travelling once a month, it is easy to manage manually. Rather than set the computer fix its path, where all enemy subs will wait, change his home port to his destination port and give it a destination in open sea: this will work as a waypoint.

Some more advices:
_ keep AOs to follow fleet operations, don't use them for carry oil or fuel on routine missions.
_ a shortage of TK is always possible. It may be a good idea to keep the TK to carry oil (only them can) and to carry fuel between bases with 7000-ton AK (capacity halved but you will lack TK before lacking AK).
_ in my games, the ressource shortages is more serious than the oil shortage. Yes I produce more ressource, but oil is only used by HI (1 per center/per day) while ressources are used by HI (1 per center/per day) and by manpower centers (5 per center/per day, a simulation of "civilian needs"). So the Japanese population is using around 4000 ressources a day, and you need 4000 more ressources than oil each day.
_ from time to time, you will have to detach part of the big convoy to Saigon, Formosa, Hong Kong or Shangai, as each of this area is using more oil than it is producing. Also shipping some from Japan to Korea is necessary, but may be done again by small TK.




Mike Solli -> RE: Help with convoying (6/19/2006 10:36:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RUPD3658

Make sure you expand the ports at your oil/resource bases to their max size. Most start as size 1 ports and take forever to load.


A base will load 200 oil/resource/fuel/supply per level of port per ship per day.



Richrd -> RE: Help with convoying (6/20/2006 2:59:52 AM)

Well, now I'm puzzled. The tanker in question had loaded it's 400 oil and had already taken out for Osaka. Why did it leave before it was fully loaded? Thanks everybody, for the great insights. I looked for the beginners guide at spookys, but the only thing I found by Mogami was the pilot training article.



dtravel -> RE: Help with convoying (6/20/2006 4:11:47 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Richrd

Well, now I'm puzzled. The tanker in question had loaded it's 400 oil and had already taken out for Osaka. Why did it leave before it was fully loaded? Thanks everybody, for the great insights. I looked for the beginners guide at spookys, but the only thing I found by Mogami was the pilot training article.


What base? What size is the port? How much oil did the base have? What is your social security number? Did you hit the return to home base button?



Richrd -> RE: Help with convoying (6/20/2006 8:00:35 AM)

Bankha. 1. Lots. 9 secret numbers. No. I ran the test again tonight, running tankers out of Sumatra, Borneo and Java. Everything worked just as you guys described it. It takes about a month to load a tanker and send it to Japan. Smaller tankers operate out of smaller ports? Thanks everybody. Now to start trying to grasp the Japanese pilot training routines.



dtravel -> RE: Help with convoying (6/20/2006 9:11:57 AM)

My best guess then is that the captain thought he saw an enemy plane, got scared and ran away.



Mike Solli -> RE: Help with convoying (6/20/2006 5:26:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Richrd

Well, now I'm puzzled. The tanker in question had loaded it's 400 oil and had already taken out for Osaka. Why did it leave before it was fully loaded? Thanks everybody, for the great insights. I looked for the beginners guide at spookys, but the only thing I found by Mogami was the pilot training article.


If the tanker removed all of the oil in the port, it'll leave for it's destination. Check to see if there's any oil there (or possibly one day's worth of production. Production occurs after the ships load.



Speedysteve -> RE: Help with convoying (6/20/2006 7:20:31 PM)

I have also seen TF's leave before full loading - oil/resource/troops. Main reason I have found is IF the TF is set to retire rather than stay on station.

To prevent this (100% works AFAIK) I load the TF with the home base and destination being the port it is at. I also have do not retire and do not unload set.



tacticon -> Transport vs Cargo (6/20/2006 10:21:59 PM)

In the task force selection screen, we can choose between Cargo and Transport. First is there any difference between the task force behavior? Will Cargo be better at avoiding enemy air by sailing around interdicion zones? Is there any difference when I put the task groups under continous support. Is there any way for the allies to automate resource collection when evacuating oil and resources from DEI?

It would be nice to have computer controlled cargo task forces to automatically move oil and resouces and transport task forces to automatically move fuel and supply.



Mike Solli -> RE: Transport vs Cargo (6/20/2006 10:38:35 PM)

As far as I can tell, the only difference is the ship icon, a freighter as opposed to a tanker.



dtravel -> RE: Transport vs Cargo (6/20/2006 11:54:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tacticon

In the task force selection screen, we can choose between Cargo and Transport. First is there any difference between the task force behavior?


No.

quote:

Will Cargo be better at avoiding enemy air by sailing around interdicion zones?


[image]http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/8707/sprofl0ne6pb.gif[/image] You're assuming that they avoid enemy air at all. [:-]

quote:

Is there any difference when I put the task groups under continous support.


No.

quote:

Is there any way for the allies to automate resource collection when evacuating oil and resources from DEI?


No.

quote:



It would be nice to have computer controlled cargo task forces to automatically move oil and resouces and transport task forces to automatically move fuel and supply.


Yes, it would.

[;)]



bradfordkay -> RE: Transport vs Cargo (6/21/2006 6:40:25 AM)

"Smaller tankers operate out of smaller ports? "


The idea here is that since smaller ports load/unload ships less quickly, then you are better off using the smaller ships at these ports and using the large ships only between larger ports. Using large ships at a small port means that it will take days longer to unload those ships than it would a TF made up of smaller ships. The load/unload rate is "per port level, per ship, per day". Thus five 2000 capacity ships will deliver the same amount of product as a single 10000 capacity ship, but unload in one fifth the time.



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