Multiplayer Issues and League Options-Please Read! (Full Version)

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Claymore Cut -> Multiplayer Issues and League Options-Please Read! (6/19/2006 5:22:05 AM)

Note: I made a few quick changes for clarity (on #1 and added #4). Sorry, I was in a hurry when I first wrote the post.

quote:

ORIGINAL: puresimmer

Perhaps, but that is a tough one for me to gauge. It would be a major undertaking (re-write maybe) to add hot seat gameplay and/or the ability for players to watch the games sim out.

So, I'll ask the crowd. What multiplayer Baseball sims are you currently playing and how do they handle managing games, roster moves, career play issues around the draft, etc.

I'm all ears, I just have to make sure the effort will be broadly appealing.

As it is today PureSim allows full roster control, managerial tendencies, full control over how players should be used and more, so I guess its just the fact that you can't watch the game play out? What if I added the ability to view a "recording" of how the game played?



I decided to start a new thread on this as Shaun is right we have badly hijacked the previous thread (of which I am mainly responsible for).

Shaun, their are a variety of serious Multiplayer/League issues that makes it very difficult to run a multiplayer/online league.

The biggest problems with the system in my opinion is the fact that you cannot manage out games in Multiplayer mode (which I think a fair amount of people agree with). As far as watching the games out, I thought Puresim allows this, I could of sworn that I did it on at least 1 occasion (could of been mistaken though, I will check when I get home).

The basic issue is, there should be some way an owner can manage out his games in Multiplayer mode. Every other game out there as far as I know (ootp 6.5 supported this) allows this, and it is a huge issue IMO.

1-If HtH player would require a major rewrite (BTW, OOTP only had hot seat HTH, Defense picked their Strategy, then Offense, there was not online support) but couldn't we at least have an an option that a comishioner could turn on to allow either the home or away team to manage out their games (the opposing team would still have their game managed by the computer). It would be a big start! (although some form of HtH would be ideal for those of us who want to sit down with their friends at those key games and play them out face to face (ala hot seat mode). I'll be honest, if I had not known the game did not support at least hot seat HtH, I probably would not of downloaded the Demo (which would of been a real shame as I really like the game). I'd imagine you would stand to gain a fair amount of customers with such a feature.

2-The other issues are that certain options should be able to be changed once the league starts. Rotations, Pitcher usage, re-alignment (The Braves moving from the West to the East), and league jumping (ala the Brewers going from the AL to the NL) should all be options that can be changed in the off season(there coul be a series of boxes that pop up similar to the option of having the league expand). It would be great if these things could be changed in the off season if they were checked in the options mode.

3-I know you also indicated that didn't think toggled Finances were needed. But to properly run a league where Free Agency comes into play later, this option is also very important (for historical leagues at least).

As a sort of Compromise, would it be possible to start with Finances off, then between seasons (similar to the options above or with league expansion) turn them on (say every player currently gets an X year contract). So you could onlt go from no Finances to Finances, which would allow historical leagues to simulate the introduction of Free Agency.

4-Another Huge Downside of Multiplayer is the limited League options you have with it. You cannot set the starting era for Fictional Leagues (they all start Modern Day unless you import players) and you can't run Multiplayer Mode/w continous reply (I can't figure out why this isn't an option I for one would love to run a HoF multiplayer league).

Lastly, I bought the game because I was very impressed with the engine, it brought back a lot of fond memories, and I had fun with the demo (I also wanted to support/encourage such fine development and ideas). I have 3 other friends in the wings waiting to play the game, but have held off because of the lack of the managing out your own games. I'd also like to point out, having the option to play more games will sell more copies (and I'm not just saying this because it is an added feature). From a game standpoint, most of multplayer functions can be done with 1 person that owns the game as the Commish (he can print and sent HTML reports, players can tpye up lineups and have the comish change them). By allowing all league members the ability of the game, there will be a greater incentive for them to pick up the game as they will have to unless they all run over to the Commish's house to manage out their games).



I hope these suggestions help, I would be curious to hear what others have to say....



Cringer -> RE: Multiplayer Issues and League Options-Please Read! (6/19/2006 6:06:58 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Claymore Cut

The other issues are that certain options should be able to be changed once the league starts. Rotations, Pitcher usage, re-alignment (The Braves moving from the West to the East), and league jumping (ala the Brewers going from the AL to the NL) should all be options that can be changed in the off season(there coul be a series of boxes that pop up similar to the option of having the league expand). It would be great if these things could be changed in the off season if they were checked in the options mode.


This stuff I agree with, it would be nice for a MP league to have.

As for playing games out, I don't care so much. As I said in the hijacked thread I come from a different world though, that of Front Office Football. I have never done MP with any other game since I could never really get into OOTP. I would lke to be able to watch a 'recording' of the game, especially when it comes to playoffs and WS, since the drama is something guys would want (as long as you can do so without seeing the score first).



Claymore Cut -> RE: Multiplayer Issues and League Options-Please Read! (6/19/2006 7:03:01 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cringer


This stuff I agree with, it would be nice for a MP league to have.

As for playing games out, I don't care so much. As I said in the hijacked thread I come from a different world though, that of Front Office Football. I have never done MP with any other game since I could never really get into OOTP. I would lke to be able to watch a 'recording' of the game, especially when it comes to playoffs and WS, since the drama is something guys would want (as long as you can do so without seeing the score first).


It is possible to watch games in Multiplayer, I just did it, all you need to do is click on watch PSPN cast (or are you suggesting saving the game so everyone could later watch it?). If that is the case, it is a nice option, but not enough for my league's needs. The ability to manage your own teams durring the game is a must have option for my multiplayer leagues, even if only 1 player can manage at a time (usually the away team).

Just the ability to to manage out 1 game and have the computer manage the other (as in OOTP) is more than enough to start for me.






Claymore Cut -> RE: Multiplayer Issues and League Options-Please Read! (6/19/2006 7:19:53 AM)

Trading

The other problem I've been having is the trade function. For some reason, even if I have computer AI trades on, I cannot trade with the computer controlled team in Multiplayer mode. None of the computer teams are listed. Is this a Bug?



Claymore Cut -> RE: Multiplayer Issues and League Options-Please Read! (6/19/2006 9:34:28 AM)

I completely forgot a couple of other issues with Multiplayer, and clarified a few things in HtH mode, so I added them to my post. For anyone who already read it already, here is the quote:


quote:

ORIGINAL: Claymore Cut

1-If HtH player would require a major rewrite (BTW, OOTP only had hot seat HTH, Defense picked their Strategy, then Offense, there was not online support) but couldn't we at least have an an option that a comishioner could turn on to allow either the home or away team to manage out their games (the opposing team would still have their game managed by the computer). It would be a big start! (although some form of HtH would be ideal for those of us who want to sit down with their friends at those key games and play them out face to face (ala hot seat mode). I'll be honest, if I had not known the game did not support at least hot seat HtH, I probably would not of downloaded the Demo (which would of been a real shame as I really like the game). I'd imagine you would stand to gain a fair amount of customers with such a feature.


4-Another Huge Downside of Multiplayer is the limited League options you have with it. You cannot set the starting era for Fictional Leagues (they all start Modern Day unless you import players) and you can't run Multiplayer Sandlot Mode (I can't figure out why this isn't an option I for one would love to run a HoF multiplayer league).



Sorry bout that, I was in a hurry...



Claymore Cut -> RE: Multiplayer Issues and League Options-Please Read! (6/20/2006 1:06:49 AM)

I'm trying to set up a test league now trying to find out any other tweaks/issues to suggest. Any other comments from the peanut gallery?



dneely -> RE: Multiplayer Issues and League Options-Please Read! (6/20/2006 2:49:20 AM)

Claymore:

I'm curious or perhaps confused by something. You say with OOTP you can play your league games and then send the results to a Commish, did I understand that correctly?? I have played in 3-4 OOTP leagues over the years and every one of them has the Commish sim the games and then he sends out a new file with the results. You then DL that file, tinker with your roster, bring up a new player, place an injured guy on IR whatever. I have never seen a manager play out say a 4 games series and then send in a file, have you?? OOTP promised the ability to play live online a couple of versions ago but Markus never released it and it caused a huge uproar. I played in a Multiplayer league using the last edition of PS and we did just like I always did in my OOTP leagues, Got a new file, made any changes we wanted, sent it back in and waited for the results.

DNeely



Claymore Cut -> RE: Multiplayer Issues and League Options-Please Read! (6/20/2006 3:08:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: dneely

Claymore:

I'm curious or perhaps confused by something. You say with OOTP you can play your league games and then send the results to a Commish, did I understand that correctly?? I have played in 3-4 OOTP leagues over the years and every one of them has the Commish sim the games and then he sends out a new file with the results. You then DL that file, tinker with your roster, bring up a new player, place an injured guy on IR whatever. I have never seen a manager play out say a 4 games series and then send in a file, have you?? OOTP promised the ability to play live online a couple of versions ago but Markus never released it and it caused a huge uproar. I played in a Multiplayer league using the last edition of PS and we did just like I always did in my OOTP leagues, Got a new file, made any changes we wanted, sent it back in and waited for the results.

DNeely


You can hot seat (with one team selecting Defense Followed by the other selecting offense) your games out in ootp, but there is no online hth play (you cannot sim games over the net), only export them (so only 1 can manage at a time).



dneely -> RE: Multiplayer Issues and League Options-Please Read! (6/20/2006 5:19:16 AM)

So you feel that PureSim needs that type of feature? Of course I have never played that way but on the surface at least it does not sound that exciting to me. Could you explain more in terms of why you think adding this feature would add to our enjoyment of the game??

Thanks, DNeely



Claymore Cut -> RE: Multiplayer Issues and League Options-Please Read! (6/20/2006 5:53:57 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: dneely

So you feel that PureSim needs that type of feature? Of course I have never played that way but on the surface at least it does not sound that exciting to me. Could you explain more in terms of why you think adding this feature would add to our enjoyment of the game??

Thanks, DNeely


So that owners can manage out their own games? What isn't there to love with such a feature? You would not want the option to actually manage your team in the playoffs?

I know I do and it is how my league has previously operated. While I agree that true Head to Head over the internet is something that probably could not be put into the existing version without a complete overhaul, at least the option to hot seat would be valuable addition to the game.

I also want the feature because I am used to it from previous graphics based games/previous ootp versions, and it is the way out multiplayer leagues have always worked.

I really don't want this to turn into a Ottp is better than Puresim for Multiplayer leagues but crack open ootp6.5 and see how it handles multiplayer leagues. You can import games, sim the game out, or actually manage the game out (in commish mode) selecting which teams were AI or Human controlled. This is what I have been used to for years, and that is why I was initially taken back by the Way Puresim handles things.

This is a must for the type of league I like to run, but natually not everyone will feel the same.



Claymore Cut -> RE: Multiplayer Issues and League Options-Please Read! (6/20/2006 6:03:35 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: dneely

Claymore:

I'm curious or perhaps confused by something. You say with OOTP you can play your league games and then send the results to a Commish, did I understand that correctly??


Here is another person who handles their leagues in a similar way from this forum (new I saw this somewhere:

quote:

ORIGINAL: alinkens

I have been a long time watcher of Puresim, I have been in the OOTP world since V4. I did purchase an older version of Puresim but it could not pull me away from OOTP. The latest version of OOTP (OOTP2006) destroyed the franchise in my opinion, I play the game in online leagues ONLY where we play each game and send a game export file back to the commissioner who imports them from each human controlled team and then sims the computer games and sends out the next zip.

In OOTP2006 this is no longer an option, now you can only play in online leagues where the human teams CANT play their games, but instead have to be simmed after sending team exports.

I am wondering how Puresim's Online leagues work, do they work where you can export each game or does the commissioner have to sim the games after getting a team export?


I was not aware that they ditched this feature (although I just played with the demo, you can still HtH games at the same computer, you just can no longer play the game and export it).

I'd be happy with just the ability to head to head games at the computer for a start (although there are others that would love the export feature as well I'd imagine, I just did a search on the ootp forums, people have complained quite a bit on this issue).

Like I said, for any sort of Multiplayer type league, it is a really big issue for me, it is just something we have always done. Some managers sim out some games and export the results, some of us get together once a week and sim the games at the Commishs house.

Is what I'm saying making sense? (I Ramble [8|] [;)] )




Claymore Cut -> RE: Multiplayer Issues and League Options-Please Read! (6/21/2006 10:25:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Claymore Cut

Trading

The other problem I've been having is the trade function. For some reason, even if I have computer AI trades on, I cannot trade with the computer controlled team in Multiplayer mode. None of the computer teams are listed. Is this a Bug?



Anyone else have the problem in a league with both Human and Computer owners? Is this a current bug or is there a reason that in multiplayer mode you cannot trade with the Computer (even if allow computer trades is selected)?



Deltadog -> RE: Multiplayer Issues and League Options-Please Read! (6/30/2006 12:24:18 AM)

I agree that the ability to manage your home games or at least watch them played out is a must.  I was in 2 BBpro leagues years ago.  One was commish sim an it quickly became a total bore.  The other was great.  Some one had come up with a method to use the last version to play the games.  The home team sent the out files and log to the commish and he was able to somehow use the just prior version and the version used to play the games to merge results from all the home teams into the new files.  The only problem we had was that we never could get enough owners.  Then when a husband and wife who both had teams moved to an area without internet access and the guys brother left, there were not enough remaining owners to continue the league.  It was fun to be able to see the base runners and fielders run around,  but seeing the ball flight in PSB is better than just reading.



SpharV2 -> RE: Multiplayer Issues and League Options-Please Read! (6/30/2006 1:15:37 AM)

I don't think just having one person able to manage their teams is quite fair. I'd either want both able to play head to head, or neither one managing. I like the AI, it generally does a good job, but I wouldn't want to trust it in the playoffs against a human if I didn't have to. :)



Claymore Cut -> RE: Multiplayer Issues and League Options-Please Read! (6/30/2006 1:18:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SpharV2

I don't think just having one person able to manage their teams is quite fair. I'd either want both able to play head to head, or neither one managing. I like the AI, it generally does a good job, but I wouldn't want to trust it in the playoffs against a human if I didn't have to. :)


Well, it is if you set up your league so that the alway team owner gets to manager his team or vice versa (i.e. a consistant rule).

In my league, we had such a rule, but once a week we got together to sim our games out, so on those occasions both managers were able to manage in the same game (i.e. HtH hotseat). It is a very fun league.



akw4572 -> RE: Multiplayer Issues and League Options-Please Read! (7/2/2006 10:58:29 PM)

Absolutely, default rotation changes (from 3 to 4 to 5 man) is really a must. If you start an association in 1900 and progress it through say 1970 to get a league history before you start playing it, it really needs to be there.



Claymore Cut -> RE: Multiplayer Issues and League Options-Please Read! (7/5/2006 11:03:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: akw4572

Absolutely, default rotation changes (from 3 to 4 to 5 man) is really a must. If you start an association in 1900 and progress it through say 1970 to get a league history before you start playing it, it really needs to be there.


All that would needed to be done would be to have the button on the options menu (like for expansion), and if it was checked, the computer would ask you if you wanted to change. The same for historical pitcher use, Financials and the other options that can only be decided at set up. I really hope this can be fixed.



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