Help - CHS 2.04 PH attack

Help - CHS 2.04 PH attack (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> Scenario Design

Message

Wineguy -> Help - CHS 2.04 PH attack (6/27/2006 5:17:27 AM)
Running scenario 157, surprise on, received the following results for turn one at PH, a Japanese nightmare. 38 zeroes down and less allied planes destroyed than Jap. Way different to Historic results. SHould this be considered a lousy dice roll or is someting else amiss? Day Air attack on Pearl Harbor , at 114,72 > > Japanese aircraft > A6M2 Zero x 90 > D3A2 Val x 137 > B5N2 Kate x 157 > > Allied aircraft > F4F-3 Wildcat x 1 > P-26A x 6 > P-36A Mohawk x 8 > P-40B Tomahawk x 13 > P-40E Warhawk x 2 > > Japanese aircraft losses > A6M2 Zero: 38 destroyed, 14 damaged > D3A2 Val: 23 destroyed, 91 damaged > B5N2 Kate: 19 destroyed, 67 damaged > > Allied aircraft losses > F4F-3 Wildcat: 1 destroyed > P-26A: 1 destroyed, 5 damaged > P-36A Mohawk: 10 destroyed > P-40B Tomahawk: 13 destroyed > P-40E Warhawk: 4 destroyed > SBD-3 Dauntless: 4 destroyed > OS2U-3 Kingfisher: 2 destroyed > B-17E Fortress: 1 destroyed > PBY Catalina: 14 destroyed > SB2U Vindicator: 1 destroyed > B-18A Bolo: 5 destroyed > B-17D Fortress: 1 destroyed > A-20B Boston: 3 destroyed > C-47 Dakota: 1 destroyed Regards, Steve.

Ron Saueracker -> RE: Help - CHS 2.04 PH attack (6/27/2006 5:24:32 AM)
Surprise ON? Were your fighters set to strafe? Is this the NikModesque FLAK from HELL version?[;)]

Nomad -> RE: Help - CHS 2.04 PH attack (6/27/2006 6:04:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker Surprise ON? Were your fighters set to strafe? Is this the NikModesque FLAK from HELL version?[;)] for the second part, yes 157 has the FLAK from Hell [:D]

akdreemer -> RE: Help - CHS 2.04 PH attack (6/27/2006 7:53:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Nomad quote: ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker Surprise ON? Were your fighters set to strafe? Is this the NikModesque FLAK from HELL version?[;)] for the second part, yes 157 has the FLAK from Hell [:D] The problem seems to be three fold: 1- The US LCU now have their historical weapon quantites, especially in .50 cal MG's. 2- The US LCU's were caught with their pants down around their ankles (Sunday morning and peace time routines) 3- The effectiveness of HMG's is over rated in the game. Possible solutions: 1- Cannot see much that can be done here except to remove these weapons. Not a real solutions since they really did exist, indeed in greater quatities than in the game. I had often wandered why the US LCU's did not have their correct allotment of M2 Bownings present in the stock scenarios. Ditto for the AAA units. 2- Have the US LCU's come in as reinforcements on 411207 instead of 421206, thus not being present during the attack (Inf, CD, and AAA units). 3- Decrease the effectiveness of all HMG's and set their range out to 1. This would discourage straffing attacks, which historically is what these MG's were for.

Andrew Brown -> RE: Help - CHS 2.04 PH attack (6/27/2006 8:45:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AlaskanWarrior The problem seems to be three fold: 1- The US LCU now have their historical weapon quantites, especially in .50 cal MG's. 2- The US LCU's were caught with their pants down around their ankles (Sunday morning and peace time routines) 3- The effectiveness of HMG's is over rated in the game. Actually I am not sure that the HMGs are the problem. I have been running some tests of my own and I have yet to see a result as bad as the one posted by Wineguy. Note that there was one important change in CHS 2.04 I forgot to add to the documentation - all AA MGs had their ceilings reduced to 1/3 their previous value. Here are the Japanese aircraft losses from my latest batch of tests with CHS 2.04. I ran three tests with each of the following scenarios: - Scenario 15 (stock) - CHS 1.02 - CHS 2.04 standard - CHS 2.04 "Nik Mod" - CHS 2.04 experimental Here are my results: Stock Scenario 15: Test number 1: A6M2 Zero: 4 destroyed, 11 damaged D3A Val: 5 destroyed, 43 damaged B5N Kate: 14 destroyed, 36 damaged Test number 2: A6M2 Zero: 3 destroyed, 6 damaged D3A Val: 9 destroyed, 51 damaged B5N Kate: 7 destroyed, 28 damaged Test number 3: A6M2 Zero: 5 destroyed, 6 damaged D3A Val: 12 destroyed, 42 damaged B5N Kate: 7 destroyed, 29 damaged CHS 1.02: Test number 1: A6M2 Zero: 8 destroyed, 9 damaged D3A2 Val: 4 destroyed, 46 damaged B5N2 Kate: 8 destroyed, 30 damaged Test number 2: A6M2 Zero: 9 destroyed, 9 damaged D3A2 Val: 11 destroyed, 44 damaged B5N2 Kate: 12 destroyed, 49 damaged Test number 3: A6M2 Zero: 5 destroyed, 6 damaged D3A2 Val: 12 destroyed, 45 damaged B5N2 Kate: 5 destroyed, 43 damaged CHS 2.04 Standard: Test number 1: A6M2 Zero: 8 destroyed, 9 damaged D3A2 Val: 9 destroyed, 45 damaged B5N2 Kate: 9 destroyed, 39 damaged Test number 2: A6M2 Zero: 8 destroyed, 16 damaged D3A2 Val: 12 destroyed, 56 damaged B5N2 Kate: 11 destroyed, 35 damaged Test number 3: A6M2 Zero: 13 destroyed, 9 damaged D3A2 Val: 7 destroyed, 51 damaged B5N2 Kate: 15 damaged CHS 2.04 "Nik Mod": Test number 1: A6M2 Zero: 8 destroyed, 16 damaged D3A2 Val: 13 destroyed, 68 damaged B5N2 Kate: 8 destroyed, 52 damaged Test number 2: A6M2 Zero: 5 destroyed, 16 damaged D3A2 Val: 7 destroyed, 59 damaged B5N2 Kate: 16 destroyed, 74 damaged Test number 3: A6M2 Zero: 6 destroyed, 23 damaged D3A2 Val: 7 destroyed, 80 damaged B5N2 Kate: 1 destroyed, 35 damaged CHS 2.04 experimental: Test number 1: A6M2 Zero: 6 destroyed, 12 damaged D3A2 Val: 5 destroyed, 66 damaged B5N2 Kate: 18 destroyed, 65 damaged Test number 2: A6M2 Zero: 9 destroyed, 18 damaged D3A2 Val: 8 destroyed, 81 damaged B5N2 Kate: 10 destroyed, 39 damaged Test number 3: A6M2 Zero: 9 destroyed, 19 damaged D3A2 Val: 10 destroyed, 85 damaged B5N2 Kate: 15 destroyed, 67 damaged So losses due to AA are higher when the A2A changes are applied, but I have not seen results similar to those posted by Wineguy. Note that the AA losses in CHS 2.04 standard are not that different from the old CHS or stock, so I don't think that the LCU OOB changes had much effect, at least at this point in the scenario. As to whether the increased AA effectiveness is a good thing or a bad thing, I don't have a current opinion on that one way or another. Andrew

Wineguy -> RE: Help - CHS 2.04 PH attack (6/27/2006 1:57:29 PM)
Plane settings were not changed, all zeroes have airfield attack orders, rest port attack. I have the turn pre combat replay and post, would they be any use to you (Andrew) ? Also I assume just rerunning the turn will give identical results so the only way around this freak result would be to suck it up and play on or to redo the first turn from stratch? Thanks for your help, Steve.

Andrew Brown -> RE: Help - CHS 2.04 PH attack (6/27/2006 2:50:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Wineguy Plane settings were not changed, all zeroes have airfield attack orders, rest port attack. I have the turn pre combat replay and post, would they be any use to you (Andrew) ? Also I assume just rerunning the turn will give identical results so the only way around this freak result would be to suck it up and play on or to redo the first turn from stratch? Thanks for your help, Steve. Thanks but I don't think it will help sending me the turn. I think the only thing to do is to see what the results are over a larger number of games. Obviously there is quite a range of possible outcomes, but this is as it should be, at least within reason. As I mention my test results seem to be OK. Time will tell I guess. Andrew

treespider -> RE: Help - CHS 2.04 PH attack (6/27/2006 3:24:26 PM)
From the original post - > Allied aircraft > F4F-3 Wildcat x 1 > P-26A x 6 > P-36A Mohawk x 8 > P-40B Tomahawk x 13 > P-40E Warhawk x 2 > Just an observation from the peanut gallery...shouldn't most of the US planes at PH start at Training - Training Level - Zero. With one P-40 group set at CAP 10 or maybe 20 and a P-36 group likewise set at CAP 10-20? I do not have the scenario open but it should be the 46th and 47th and Pursuit Squadrons. IIRC only a handful (12) of US planes (P-40's and P-36's) got into the air to contest the Japanese on Dec 7. Even the PBY's should be set at Nav Search - Search Level 10.

ny59giants -> RE: Help - CHS 2.04 PH attack (6/27/2006 3:32:02 PM)
Tree, We are doing a non-historical first turn and I am allowed to adjust the altitude and mission for Allied air force. I have set CAP at a max of 50% with altitude from 15k to 25k. From my observations it hasn't helped much (except in this example) as most of the squadrons are short on pilots and/or have damaged planes. Plus, their morale is in the 50's or lower.

Sardaukar -> RE: Help - CHS 2.04 PH attack (6/27/2006 3:41:15 PM)
I like the experimental version very much so far. Plays very well.

treespider -> RE: Help - CHS 2.04 PH attack (6/27/2006 3:57:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ny59giants Tree, We are doing a non-historical first turn and I am allowed to adjust the altitude and mission for Allied air force. I have set CAP at a max of 50% with altitude from 15k to 25k. From my observations it hasn't helped much (except in this example) as most of the squadrons are short on pilots and/or have damaged planes. Plus, their morale is in the 50's or lower. Ahhhh so there is the original posters explanation....non-historical play begets non-historical results. If the US aircraft are aloft, flying missions, they are not sitting on the airfield waiting to get whacked...

herwin -> RE: Help - CHS 2.04 PH attack (6/27/2006 5:03:10 PM)
What were the historical damage statistics for the Japanese at Pearl Harbor? I'm doing an ANOVA on the data posted.

treespider -> RE: Help - CHS 2.04 PH attack (6/27/2006 6:12:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: herwin What were the historical damage statistics for the Japanese at Pearl Harbor? I'm doing an ANOVA on the data posted. The Japanese lost 29 planes destroyed, 74 damaged at Pearl Harbor...I'm at work at the moment and will need sometime to dig up the statistics...but it was 9 planes in the first wave and 20 in the second.

treespider -> RE: Help - CHS 2.04 PH attack (6/27/2006 6:36:40 PM)
Found this on the web.... http://www.navweaps.com/index_oob/OOB_WWII_Pacific/OOB_WWII_Pearl_Harbor.htm Japanese Aircraft Losses Kido Butai lost 29 planes to all causes over Pearl Harbour. A total of 55 aviators were lost, including those in aircraft that returned to the carriers. An additional 111 planes were damaged of which twenty were later written off. The planes lost during the actual attack on Pearl Harbor are broken down as follows: Wave 1: 9 Planes Lost Akagi: 1 A6M2 Kaga: 2 A6M2, 5 B5N2 Shokaku: 1 D3A Wave 2: 20 Planes Lost Akagi: 4 D3A1 Kaga: 2 A6M2, 6 D3A1 Hiryu: 1 A6M2, 2 D3A1 Soryu: 3 A6M2, 2 D3A1 The breakdown of lost or written-off planes is as follows: The first wave lost 21 aircraft (3 A6M, 16 B5N and 2 D3A). The second wave lost 34 aircraft (6 A6M and 28 D3A). The aircrew losses were as follows: Carrier Akagi�10 KIA 1st Wave: Takeshi Hirano A6M Shigeharu Sugaya B5N 2nd Wave: Hajime Goto D3A Kinsuke Homma D3A Hirokichi Kinoshita D3A Seiichi Ota D3A Toshio Oyama D3A Kiyoshi Sakamoto D3A Chuji Shimakura D3A Doshi Utsuki D3A Carrier Hiryu�5 KIA 2nd Wave Isamu Kiyomura D3A Hajime Murao D3A Shigenori Nishikaichi A6M Yoshio Shimizu D3A Korevoshi Sotoyama D3A Carrier Kaga�31 KIA 1st Wave Toru Haneda A6M Syuzo Kitahara B5N Kenichi Kumamoto B5N Yoshiharu Machimoto B5N Yoshizo Masuda B5N Isamu Matsuda B5N Tsuneki Morita B5N Izumi Nagai B5N Nafikatsu Ohashi B5N Toshio Onishi B5N Seinoshin Sano A6M Yoshio Shimizu B5N Mitsumori Suzuki B5N Hidemi Takeda B5N Tomoharu Takeda B5N Yonetaro Ueda B5N Nobuo Umezu B5N 2nd Wave: Nagaaki Asahi D3A Toshiaki Bando D3A Ippei Goto A6M Fumio Hirshima D3A Fukumitsu Imai D3A Tomio Inenaga A6M Kazuyoshi Kuwabata D3A Saburo Makino D3A Tsuneo Minamizaki D3A Iwao Oka D3A Shingenori Onikura D3A Noboru Sakaguchi D3A Sueo Sukida D3A Nobuo Tsuda D3A Carrier Shokaku�2 KIA 1st Wave: Kunio Iwatsuki D3A Tetsusaburo Kumazo D3A Carrier Soryu�7 KIA 2nd Wave: Shunichi Atsumi A6M Fusata Iida A6M Saburo Ishii A6M Satoru Kawasaki D3A Hideyasu Kuwabara D3A Kenji Maruyama D3A Ryochi Takahashi D3A These 55 crewmen plus nine men killed and one captured on the minisubmarines were the only Japanese casualties of the battle.

herwin -> RE: Help - CHS 2.04 PH attack (6/27/2006 8:42:33 PM)
Not enough independent runs to conclude anything.

Page: [1]

Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

3.75