Odd US flak halftrack on D-Day? (Full Version)

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sjuncal -> Odd US flak halftrack on D-Day? (7/21/2000 2:05:00 AM)

I Asked this in the CM forum no one seemed to know. In the book "Nothing Less Than Victory: The Oral History of D-Day" by Russell Miller, in the Omaha chapter; an Antiaircraft SP-flak Lieutenant (presumably in charge of a platoon of M16/M15 flak half-tracks) describes his vehicles as being equipped with "Quadruple .50 caliber machine guns and dual 37mm automatic rifles". As I've come to understand, the standard M15 had ONE 37mm barrel with coaxial .50 caliber MG's mounted on either side of the turret. The Quad maxson .50 AAMG on the M16 also was a turreted system IIRC. Anyone heard of this beast? Did it have a nickname or designation? I've considered that the Lt. might have been exaggerating or just had a clouded memory, but everything else in his account seems too lucid to just dismiss his description. It's occurs to me that the vehicle could have had two M15 turrets, or a dual 37mm (which I believe there was a towed AA gun version of?) with a Quad .50 in the front over the driver compartment as with the M16... Two M15 turrets seem impossible as the 37mm turret looks like too large a weapon system to put two of them on one halftrack. Simon



Banzai -> (7/21/2000 3:20:00 AM)

Is it possible that it was the M15 Halftrack armed with the centr 37MM and 2 .50 towing the quad .50 mount? Or some similiar arrangement. I know we produced a towed version of the Quad .50 mount used on the M16. I dont know if we did the same with the M15. Assuming we did the combination would make the weapons numbers come out right.



Elvis -> (7/21/2000 3:26:00 AM)

The only other halftrack mounted SPAA other than the M15 and M16 that I know of are: M13 2 x .50 M2 in a Maxon turret M14 as M13 but on an M5 chassis M17 4 x .50 M2 in an improved (M33) mount I am 90% sure that the above were used operationally. From what you described, it sounds like he was describing an M15, and messed the details up a bit... ------------------ alea iacta est [email]sooperduk@hotmail.com[/email]



sjuncal -> (7/21/2000 3:31:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Banzai: Is it possible that it was the M15 Halftrack armed with the centr 37MM and 2 .50 towing the quad .50 mount? Or some similiar arrangement. I know we produced a towed version of the Quad .50 mount used on the M16. I dont know if we did the same with the M15. Assuming we did the combination would make the weapons numbers come out right.
hmmm that would come out to one 37mm barrel and 6 total .50 caliber MG's [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img]



sjuncal -> (7/21/2000 3:54:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Elvis: From what you described, it sounds like he was describing an M15, and messed the details up a bit...
Kinda a large bit of detail to mess up IMHO. if it was a standard M15 he added 2 .50's and an extra main gun. I'm inclined to believe the guys account. Maybe there's some other misunderstanding OTOH. He could have been saying (though that's an exact quote) that his Half-tracks were equipped with _either_ Quad 50's or a dual 37mm flak... But this still leaves the dual 37mm flak as a unusual (at least AFAIK) configuration. I know a LOT of AFV's were modified in the field, especially a lot of oddities on D-Day. Assuming he had M15's with a 37mm turret that had two cannon, How hard would it be to add 2 more .50 caliber MG's to the 2 that are already supposed to be there?



Elvis -> (7/21/2000 9:25:00 AM)

Field modifications are one thing, but adding additional weapons systems other than something simple would take some serious engineering work. It's one thing to weld a pintle mount on to a vehicle for an extra MG, but something like that would have to be built in a factory (or a serious mod at a depot) BTW, I don't doubt the validity of his statement a bit, just an observation on my part stemming from my limited knowedge of US AA vehicles. Someone out there with more references than me can probably solve this mystery... [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img] ------------------ alea iacta est [email]sooperduk@hotmail.com[/email]



bigjim -> (7/21/2000 7:12:00 PM)

Maybe he was referring to TWO vehicles in the outfit one with fifties and the other with the 37mm guns???



Grumble -> (7/22/2000 12:34:00 AM)

IMHO, when confronted with details like this that go against what you can verify, you go with the verification. From my experience with the "press" and veterans recollections two things probably happened: 1- The author(s) of the piece didn't fully understand what the Lt was talking about, and mis-quoted him. This happens more than one may think. 2- The Lt relating a detail of something that happened 55 YEARS AGO, simply confused the twin .50's for the 37mm. Don't want to flame or throw stones but this IS a small detail and veterans have been known to confuse these sorts of details. Case in point, in a German memoir the author tells us that his armored cars had "30mm guns". Untrue.



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