Watch Sgt. York shoot a sniper out of a tree with a .45 from 100 yards away!!! (Full Version)

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Elvis -> Watch Sgt. York shoot a sniper out of a tree with a .45 from 100 yards away!!! (7/21/2000 2:54:00 AM)

The scale of this map is 1 hex = 50 yards, correct? If this is the case, how is it possible for a crewman armed with a .45 M1911A1 to engage (and kill no less!) a target 2 hexes away? Pistols should have a range of 0. It's hard enough to hit a target at 15 yards, let alone 100 - especially with a military pistol. ------------------ alea iacta est [email]sooperduk@hotmail.com[/email]



Nikademus -> (7/21/2000 2:56:00 AM)

i'd say it was SGT York's lucky day. Even at range 0 i have yet to see *any* pistol armed unit score a casualty yet.



Nikademus -> (7/21/2000 3:00:00 AM)

either that or it must have been Gunnery Sgt Tom Cruise....after all he 'can' hit a bullseye on an enemy's forhead while spinning on his motorcycle's front wheel (at 60+ MPh) so hitting a grunt while standing on his two feet should be no problem at all. and for my next trick, Sgt Rambo will take his AFV and personally anhilate an entire Russian tank brigade ;-)



Elvis -> (7/21/2000 3:04:00 AM)

I'm not joking. This has happened in many different scenarios, and it blows me away every time. When I get home from work I'm going to have to check out what the range is for pistols...unless someone can enlighten me before then. ------------------ alea iacta est [email]sooperduk@hotmail.com[/email]



Voriax -> (7/21/2000 3:38:00 AM)

I've been shooting with a quite a few different handguns and it's not that hard to hit a human sized target at 100m. Sometimes I've fired at pop-up metal plates about the size of a human upper body at 150m range and with military pistols you may not hit with the first shot but after you get the correct aiming point figured out it's not that hard. Heck, I once hit that target with a .45 cal muzzleloading black powder pistol [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img] Voriax



Paul Vebber -> (7/21/2000 3:40:00 AM)

The range of pistols is 2. But there is always a 1% chance of a hit. I don't have any problem reducing it to 1. There is no range 0 in the game, all ranges are rounded up to 1 as the "minimum range"



Seth -> (7/21/2000 3:40:00 AM)

The range is 2 for pistols. They have such a bad rating that I'm amazed this is a common problem. Nontheless, I guess this is trick shooting. I had a 2 hex crew on crew gunbattle which resulted in one return fire kill for me. At the time, I thought only: "Hell yeah! Don't mess with me!", but now I see where it's a bit hard to believe.



Elvis -> (7/21/2000 3:53:00 AM)

<<< I've been shooting with a quite a few different handguns and it's not that hard to hit a human sized target at 100m. Sometimes I've fired at pop-up metal plates about the size of a human upper body at 150m range and with military pistols you may not hit with the first shot but after you get the correct aiming point figured out it's not that hard >>> I agree that it is possible to hit a target at 100 meters on a range . In a combat situation? Hardly. With a typical, wartime manufactured sidearm? Very unlikely. ------------------ alea iacta est [email]sooperduk@hotmail.com[/email]



Voriax -> (7/21/2000 4:10:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Elvis: I agree that it is possible to hit a target at 100 meters on a range . In a combat situation? Hardly. With a typical, wartime manufactured sidearm? Very unlikely.
Right, very unlikely. But not nearly as impossible as some may think. And as i've tested the main WW2 era sidearms from the major nations, I can say that they are not that bad weapons. There exist plenty of examples when kills have been achieved at extreme ranges, so if a crew of 7-8 all firing pistols at target two hex away score a hit occasionally it's not a bad thing. Besides, if both the shooters and targets are at the hex edge, then the distance is only 50m [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/wink.gif[/img] Voriax



Tankhead -> (7/21/2000 4:36:00 AM)

Hello Elvis ! On a previous post I did a while back I brough up this subject. Those US bazoka team, blasting them from every hexe available around them with my infrantry and those US bazoka dude were popping my guys with their .45. Most of the answer I've receive for that post were "those GI must a been crack shot" no kidding, more like snipers toting .45 [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img] Tankhead ------------------ Rick Cloutier [email]rcclout@telusplanet.net[/email] Coordinator: Tankhead's SPWAW Resources http://sites.netscape.net/rcclout



Elvis -> (7/21/2000 9:16:00 AM)

<<< Right, very unlikely. But not nearly as impossible as some may think. >>> I never said it was impossible, in fact, "extreme range" kills with a pistol are entirely possible, but I don't think we need to elaborate on ballistics. The point I was trying to make, and still support, is that having a range of 2 for pistols detracts from the reality of the game. The simple fact of the matter is that "extreme range" (greater than 15 yards) exchanges of pistol fire resulting in casualties were not a common occurrence. Did they happen? Of course. Unfortunately, this is a game - a closed system - not real life. I don't think that the game engine tracks each individual small arms round through the course of its ballistic arc. That being said, the chance of an "extreme range" kill within the game is much more likely than in real life, as the number of variables affecting the flight of the round are infinitely less. Having 12 years of practical experience with infantry small arms, and having carried a pistol for 7, I feel safe saying that 100 meter kills with a pistol should be an exception, rather than the norm. Like I stated in an earlier post, firing on the range is one thing - trying to fire at a moving target with your adrenaline flowing is another - especially at the ranges you seem to find reasonable. Unfortunately, this happens all too often, and in multiple scenarios. The odds of it happening within the game engine are just too high. If anyone out there who has fired a pistol in combat can definitely prove that 50-100 meter kills were a common occurrence, please prove me wrong. Until then, the range needs to be changed to 1... ------------------ alea iacta est [email]sooperduk@hotmail.com[/email]



troopie -> (7/21/2000 9:22:00 AM)

Depends on the terrain, too. In open country, or street fighting, you may want an SMG. In jungle fighting, a pistol can be very useful. Pistols were often carried in Rhodesia, and used in combat. But combat there was often at five metres or less. I never used anything but an R-1. troopie ------------------ Pamwe Chete



Fredde -> (7/21/2000 3:29:00 PM)

I also had some funny results with a bazooka team where the .45's actually gave a greater number of casualties than the bazooka itself :-) kinda funny, but i suppose with enough coincidence it could happen even for real.



bigjim -> (7/21/2000 6:57:00 PM)

Vor, I want to come to the range with you have you teach me to shoot hand guns I have been "cowboy action shooting" for years and I doubt very much if I could "consistantly hit" any man size target at 100 yrds (alittle less than 100 meters) with my colt .45 single action revolvers, with 7 and 1/2 inch barrels. Our targets in "Cowboy Action Shooting" range from 20 feet to 45 feet and we miss all the time (the game is based on time and hits with each miss a time penalty). BigJim



Nikademus -> (7/21/2000 8:10:00 PM)

did'nt mean to make light of your question. Its just that my experience has been the exact opposite of what you apparantly have been seeing. In dozens of scenerios so far i've yet to see any pistol firing unit score a hit. Guess the only 2 cents worth i can put in here in regards to 100yard hits is that in SP:WAW a hit is not just called a "kill" anymore but a 'casualty' so the latter there could be interpreted as even knicking one with the firing pistol. Have to admit though, i'd be questioning it a little too if i'd had as many 100meter hits with the weapon as you've had. I just hav'nt seen it.



David F. Wall -> (7/21/2000 8:29:00 PM)

Could it, in fact, be an SP:WAW equivalent of Sgt. York, i.e., a very experienced unit that has had its wheels blown out from under it?



Major_Johnson -> (7/21/2000 10:42:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by Paul Vebber: The range of pistols is 2. But there is always a 1% chance of a hit. I don't have any problem reducing it to 1. There is no range 0 in the game, all ranges are rounded up to 1 as the "minimum range"
Paul, please don't change anything in this respect. In all the scenarios I've played I've only had one kill from a side arm. I don't think we need to reduce the chances even more. ------------------ MJ We serve others best when at the same time we serve ourselves.



Elvis -> (7/22/2000 12:32:00 AM)

<<< Paul, please don't change anything in this respect. In all the scenarios I've played I've only had one kill from a side arm. I don't think we need to reduce the chances even more. >>> I said nothing, and neither did Paul, about changing the hit percentage of pistols. I said that a range of 2 (100 meters) for a pistol is unreasonable. Changing the range from 2 to 1 will not "reduce the chances even more," only bring the weapon into line with historical parameters. Again, I'd like to know how people find a range of 2 (100 yards) reasonable for a pistol. Again, I'd like someone to come up with some conclusive proof. Until this happens, the range needs to be fixed. ------------------ alea iacta est [email]sooperduk@hotmail.com[/email]



krull -> (7/22/2000 6:01:00 AM)

well bud i carried a pistol a .45 colt to be exact into combat and you can hit stuff with it that far away its called suppressing fire and yes pistols will cause people to shall we say BUG out in this game thats a casualty i believe. As for proof i want you to provea M 16 can hit some one at 100 yards with people shooting back at you you cant because you dont aim you spray opr return fire at an area NO one aims in a fire fight if they do i doubt they hit very much unless at 300 plus yards close range fire fights are usualy won bye who ever puts out the most fire and or just doesnt want to give up and pul back.



Kluckenbill -> (7/22/2000 6:34:00 AM)

I vote to lower the range to 1 also. I've lost a lot of guys to pistol packin' crews. Its a bit frustrating to fire at a crew from 2 hexes away witha 4-man recon team armed with M1 Rifles, only to get beaten by the P38 armed crew. In addition, I think that bailed-out tank crews should have very fragile morale. Once they bail out of their tank, I suspect most of them are just looking for a way out of the fire fight so they can draw some new wheels, I can't imagine them skulking about the battlefield waiting to ambush real grunts.



johnfmonahan -> (7/22/2000 7:00:00 AM)

Range 1 for sure. ------------------ When in doubt, go on line.



Ed -> (7/22/2000 3:09:00 PM)

1 for me too



Major_Johnson -> (7/22/2000 10:16:00 PM)

I said nothing, and neither did Paul, about changing the hit percentage of pistols. I said that a range of 2 (100 meters) for a pistol is unreasonable. [/B][/QUOTE] I stand corrected. Sorry, I misunderstood. I see your point though. It would take one heck of a long barreled pistol with a scope to peg someone at 100 yards! But ureka! Last night I just had another kill by a sidearm! ------------------ MJ We serve others best when at the same time we serve ourselves.



Larry Holt -> (7/21/2000 11:13:00 PM)

There has been some discussion as to what range targets can be hit with a pistol. I think we need to clairify the difference between maximum range and maximum effective range. A pistol bullet will probably go for hundreds of yards or so but that would be an unrealistic range. In combat side arms are for personal protection. I think its unrealistic to have units using them beyond a range of one hex. ------------------ An old soldier but not yet a faded one. OK, maybe just a bit faded.



Rickenbacker -> (7/23/2000 5:09:00 PM)

>If anyone out there who has fired a pistol >in combat can definitely prove that 50-100 >meter kills were a common occurrence, >please prove me wrong. Does Soft Air Gun count? [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img] I can reliably hit a target at about 15 meters with one of those, but when me and some buds went out in the woods to shoot it out I once emptied a whole clip at a guy no more than 3-4 meters away, missing! Simulated combat stress I guess... Rickenbacker



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