Bugs found in first few games... (Full Version)

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Brockleigh -> Bugs found in first few games... (6/30/2006 4:33:12 PM)

Hey folks...

Okay, as I had stated in the main forum, I've encountered a few irregularities when playing the first few games, and I wanted to put them up here and see what people thought. Judging by what's been posted on fbmax.com, it seems most of the folks playing the game are using American Rules or Indoor Rules, and not so much Canadian Rules, so maybe these have slipped under the radar. So here's what I've found in playing with Full Canadian Rules in Arcade Mode:

1) Singles are not awarded on balls punted into the end zone. The ball is spotted at the 35 following the downed ball, but regardless of whether the ball was fielded in the end zone or went out of bounds within the end-zone, the 'rouge' is not awarded. Singles are awarded for missed field-goals not returned, however.

2) I've only had a couple successful 'coffin-corner' punts, but they have also been spotted at the 35 yard line, not at the point where they went out of bounds.

3) On RARE occasions, the game will run into a loop on missed field goals. The ball will land in the end-zone, and the returner will run back and forth over the ball without picking it up, over and over and over. The covering team will just sit back and wait for the returner to pick up the ball. I've waited two minutes for the return man to pick up the ball before giving up and terminating the application.

4) The 3rd quarter does not begin with a kick-off, but begins the same as the 2nd or 4th quarter, with the team having possession at the close of the 2nd quarter retaining possession at the beginning of the third at the Line Of Scrimmage.

5) After a successful field-goal, the team scored upon is not given the option of reciving the kick-off, or taking possession of the ball at the 35.

6) Although I have seen the punting team encroach on the 5-yard halo around a returner before he's touched the ball, I have not seen a No Yards penalty called.

So it's not a laundry list, just a few things that I've come across. There are a couple other VERY minor quibbles, but not that come to mind at the moment. Let me know if there's something I can do on my own to correct some of these issues, or if they are or have been addressed.

Thanks guys,
Brockleigh



Marauders -> RE: Bugs found in first few games... (6/30/2006 11:47:58 PM)

Brockleigh, thank you for that detailed list.

I know that many of these things are being addresssed.  I'd have to run through the beta build notes to see which ones have been completed.  I am certain that David will note these, and the beta guys will have to double check them if they are not known to be fixed.

Because of the changes in the PDS, there has not been an opportunity to release a live beta build for a while.  When that is released, I suspect many of these issues will have been addressed.



David Winter -> RE: Bugs found in first few games... (7/4/2006 6:30:45 AM)

1) Singles are not awarded on balls punted into the end zone. The ball is spotted at the 35 following the downed ball, but regardless of whether the ball was fielded in the end zone or went out of bounds within the end-zone, the 'rouge' is not awarded. Singles are awarded for missed field-goals not returned, however.

A lot of the league specific secondary rules are being added to R3. Rules such as an option to re kick on out of bounds kick offs etc are being added. They're being 'attached' to the field type you select until I can add a secondary rules option screen.

5) After a successful field-goal, the team scored upon is not given the option of reciving the kick-off, or taking possession of the ball at the 35.

See above

6) Although I have seen the punting team encroach on the 5-yard halo around a returner before he's touched the ball, I have not seen a No Yards penalty called.

Hmm see above the above [:)]



Brockleigh -> RE: Bugs found in first few games... (7/7/2006 6:18:12 PM)

It is mostly items in the kicking game that I was running into problems with, on an In-Game basis

Now here's something rather intersting I came upon: I played three weeks with my CFL league, and then went about creating a new Indoor league. I had played about six-weeks of the Indoor League, then went back to the CFL league to find that Hamilton's win-loss-tie totals were zeroed-out. The other eight teams had their correct standings, but the Tabbies had theirs at 0-0-0. I found that odd, obviously, and when I went back to my Indoor league, the entire leagues standings were zeroed-out. Has anyone come across this before?

As well, I was finding that in the Statistics Window, the game was only showing the previous games's stats, as opposed to what had accrued for the season thus far.



David Winter -> RE: Bugs found in first few games... (7/9/2006 10:31:31 PM)

What version of the game are you using?

The standings getting messed up is an old problem with a couple of reasons for its cause. While R3 has a proper fix for this in place, there are a couple of things you can do to prevent it from happening in the current public release.

When you create a league and set up all your teams, insure there are no blank divisions. These are divisions with no teams in them. Also, rather than just creating your league and starting a new season right away. Create your league, set up your teams and rules how you want it, then press the reset button to ensure the league is properly 'zero'd out' before starting the season. Once you reset it, start a new season.

Again, R3 has proper fixes in place for that problem but that's obviously not going to help you today. So I would suggest simply resetting your league and starting a new season. Resetting ensures everything is properly setup prior to the very first season.

If you're still having difficulty with this, send the league file to support@wintervalley.com and I'll take a look at what could be causing the problem.



Brockleigh -> RE: Bugs found in first few games... (7/10/2006 5:18:32 PM)

Hey Dave,

Thanks for the heads-up. So resetting the league prior to actually starting the league kind of 'formats' it... Gotcha.

I've just started a USFL league to go along with the two others that I've started, so I'll let you know how that goes.

Thanks again,
Brockleigh



Brockleigh -> RE: Bugs found in first few games... (8/1/2006 12:08:46 AM)

Hey guys...

I've come across a few more that I thought I'd post up here. I am aware that there are a number of known issues, and some of these might be already covered, so don't be upset if these have been dealt with already. [;)]

1) Players listed as 'inactive' can be subbed in at anytime, as though they're just a regular part of the roster.
2) The clock runs on Extra Point attempts.
3) When making substitutions, the game can lock up when selecting a player to take out. I've noticed this primarily happens when a formation hasn't been selected first, but even after selecting a formation, it happens sometimes.
4) The Stats Page will only show what the players accululated in the last game. Anything done before that is erased. I tried the 'reset-the-league' thing Dave mentioned in a previous post, but it didn't help.
5) The Illegal Contact Penalty in all outdoor leagues is a five yard penalty and an Automatic First Down. I have accepted some illegal contact penalties in all rulesets and had it come up 2nd or 3rd down and whatever.
6) It's possible to have duplicate players on the field. I've played a few downs with two Terry Vaughns on the field.
7) I played an Indoor game today where the CPU went for it on 4th and long from their own 3 (the way their kicker was kicking, it was six of one and a half dozen of the other). I tackled the QB in the End Zone for what should have been a safety. Instead, the game gave me a first and goal with the ball spotted inside the End Zone.

And maybe this should be moved to another part of the forum, but might I suggest something for the Indoor Ruleset. Seeing as the AFL ReboundNets® can't be used to keep the ball in play on a missed Field Goal and Maximum-Football has to create it's own rules for Indoor Field Goals, might I suggest a rule change to have the ball placed half the distance from the line of scrimmage if a missed field goal goes out-of-bounds? Otherwise there's no reason to try a longer field goal if the penalty for missing is the same as if they threw an incomplete pass instead. I've had a couple of times where I've missed a 40+ yard field goal and had the ball placed in my own half, and thought I might as well have just gone for it on 4th and 19, and that seems a little off to me.

Just tossing in my two cents,
Brockleigh



David Winter -> RE: Bugs found in first few games... (8/1/2006 5:50:24 AM)

Hi. Thanks for posting these.

Your idea for the indoor rule is interesting and makes sense considering I can't use the rebound nets. . I'll see if I can get it into R3.



dreamtheatervt -> RE: Bugs found in first few games... (8/1/2006 6:59:01 AM)

Unless it is a programming problem, you can have a net for the ball to bounce off of without copyright infringement. There are other indoor leagues, and they use them as well; I have been to a AIFL game so I know they use them. You don't even have to call them a net...make it a forcefield, or better yet, a bubble dome!

Bubble hockey is great, my friend has an old USA vs USSR machine (I know that's off topic, but bubble hockey rocks!) Bubble football anyone?



Brockleigh -> RE: Bugs found in first few games... (8/1/2006 3:50:22 PM)

Bubble Football? Interesting concept. I do remember an old kids game from way back with a vibrating surface that moved the players. But this is way off topic and I'll post in the main forum...

Anyhow, I'm curious, Dave... I'm sure you contacted the AFL for permission to use the ReboundNets... Did they give a flat refusal, or did they want concessions, or a piece of the pie...? Like I said, just curious.

Something else that struck me... The AFL has been around for 20 years, right? It started in 1987, and they patented the ReboundNets... and the lifespan of a patent is 17 years... so is it possible the patent on the ReboundNets has expired?

I've just had a look at the Patent that James Foster filed way back in 1987 (US Patent No. 4,911,493) and the patent is for the Arena Football League game itself, not specifically for the Nets... Interesting.



David Winter -> RE: Bugs found in first few games... (8/2/2006 5:34:27 AM)

I don't have the specifics for the patent on the nets. The AFL claims they still own the patent, and heck.. I don't have the money to dispute them so I'm not even going to go there [:)] I'm sure you understand.

Oh and I did contact them but that was 3 or 4 years ago. The license fee they were after was pretty extraordinary so I just gave it a pass.



Brockleigh -> RE: Bugs found in first few games... (8/2/2006 6:34:46 AM)

Hey Dave,

I figured it was something like that, and yeah, I understand totally. The nets don't make that big of a deal, and if you like the idea that I posted about missed field goals, that will certainly equalize things on Special Teams and take care of the only issue I had with the indoor game.

Outsides of that, I know I've gushed about the game before, but I'm a guy who didn't give a damn about Indoor Football before. Now I'm playing just as much Indoor football as I am Outdoor football. I might actually care about the AFL season next year. Thanks Dave: You just gave my wife one more reason to divorce me. [:)]

Brockleigh



Brockleigh -> RE: Bugs found in first few games... (8/2/2006 6:59:27 AM)

BTW, as I re-read my first post, I realized one more rule issue:

1) Following a rouge, the game then goes to a kickoff. A single is, by rule (CFL Rulebook, Rule 3 Section 2, Arcticle 4), spotted at the 35.



Brockleigh -> RE: Bugs found in first few games... (8/7/2006 8:19:10 PM)

Hey folks,

I hate posting another one of these, but it's cropped up and I wanted to make sure it was on the radar.

After Dave's post on July 9, suggesting I reset my leagues to initialize them, I made a slight change to my Indoor league, shortening the season in the Rules from 14 to 12 weeks. Everything was running fine until I got to what I thought was the end of the season. I was all set to start the playoffs, but when I moved to the Playoff Menu, it still read "Season Not Complete". I found that strange, as I had completed all 12 weeks of my season, and the 'Week Selector' did not show any weeks past 12.

However, when I Selected 'Full Schedule', I found two extra weeks (Weeks 13 and 14) that I thought I had gotten rid of at the beginning of the seaon. To make matters worse, there was no way to play those extra two weeks to get to the Playoff Mode, so my League was perpetually stuck at 'Week 12".

Interesting, eh?



Marauders -> RE: Bugs found in first few games... (8/9/2006 1:10:49 AM)

quote:

However, when I Selected 'Full Schedule', I found two extra weeks (Weeks 13 and 14) that I thought I had gotten rid of at the beginning of the seaon. To make matters worse, there was no way to play those extra two weeks to get to the Playoff Mode, so my League was perpetually stuck at 'Week 12".


Some of that has changed a bit, so I don't even know how much code is the same as in the latest beta build.  It may be a problem, but it may be already fixed. 

For a quick fix, I wonder if editing the schedule now with a spreadsheet program could cure that season's ills.  I have not tried it, so I am unsure if it would work.

- Marauders



Brockleigh -> RE: Bugs found in first few games... (8/9/2006 5:35:22 AM)

Hey Marauders,

Thanks for the heads up. I can't edit the schedule now, as I've deleted the league in it's entirety. I figured perhaps the problem was a terminal one for the league, and I figured if I wanted to play it again, I'd probably restart the league from scratch.

I'll consider doing that if I make more changes to the league in future, but so I know, where is the schedule spreadsheet located?



KWhit -> RE: Bugs found in first few games... (8/11/2006 5:24:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Brockleigh
I hate posting another one of these, but it's cropped up and I wanted to make sure it was on the radar.


You don't have to apologize every time you post a bug. You're doing them a service by finding issues.

Heck, they should give you a free copy of the game for being a beta tester.

[:)]



Brockleigh -> RE: Bugs found in first few games... (8/12/2006 11:41:30 PM)

Hey KWhit,

Yeah, I know it's better that the team is made aware of potential bugs than to worry if I'm being a pest... But when I see my name posted on other parts of the forum as having posted bugs, it's like "uh-oh, I'm famous, and maybe not in a good way"...

...and as I already have 2 copies of Maximum Football, a third wouldn't be so handy... now if maybe they wanted to send me a free copy of PureSim Baseball for my 'trouble'... Hmmmm.  [;)]



KWhit -> RE: Bugs found in first few games... (8/16/2006 7:44:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Brockleigh

...and as I already have 2 copies of Maximum Football...



Say what?

I have to ask. Why do you have 2 copies?



Brockleigh -> RE: Bugs found in first few games... (8/16/2006 8:52:40 PM)

Oh, I bought the digital download and the physical shipment. I've already had one PC blow-up and go boom on me, so I wanted a little insurance in case it happened again.



pdozer63 -> RE: Bugs found in first few games... (8/27/2006 10:29:45 AM)

I just ran my first league game using the default U.S. league, Chicago (me) vs Milwaukee...first bugs I see are only 1 timeout per team per half given, but the biggy was this...I was ahead 37-17 with 4 minutes to play. Milwaukee scored a TD to make it 37-23 and the PC elected to go for 2 pts....they were successful but hey! they were awarded another 6 pts! So they elected to go for 2 again, which they converted. So all of a sudden its 37-31~~!!![&:]



Marauders -> RE: Bugs found in first few games... (8/27/2006 11:06:51 AM)

quote:

first bugs I see are only 1 timeout per team per half given


That one is squashed.  I posted it to the development board some months ago, and David tracked the error.  As I recall, it was a follow-on error to a change in the game.

quote:

Milwaukee scored a TD to make it 37-23 and the PC elected to go for 2 pts....they were successful but hey! they were awarded another 6 pts! So they elected to go for 2 again, which they converted.


That is a big one. It should have been squashed too, but it is not an area I have tested recently.

Thank you for posting feedback, and welcome to the board!



Tbird -> RE: Bugs found in first few games... (8/28/2006 4:18:39 AM)

Yes it's been fixed [image]http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/micons/m6.gif[/image]



pdozer63 -> RE: Bugs found in first few games... (8/31/2006 11:37:34 AM)

Is there a download that fixes the timeout issue? Im still only getting 1 TO per half.
Another thing I noticed tonight, I threw an interception and the intercepting team fumbled and recovered the ball. When their offense took the field they started with 3rd down and 44 yards to go LOL.
One thing I really do like is the uniform creator and the ability to create leagues to my own liking.
I used to run a tabletop board game strategy league which lasted for nearly 20 years. During that time we played and I stat'd 999 games by hand and pen. I purchased this game to convert my league to PC. Always been a bit of a football stat freak, so one thing I would really like to see in the stats dept. is the ability to toggle by category instead of just viewing it alphabetically. Be nice to see in order who leads the league in rushing yards, or sacks for example, but from what I have seen so far it only sorts alphabetically.
I still have not been able to figure out how to call timeouts using the mouse either.
I do appreciate the developers efforts with this game, I'm looking forward to updates which address some of these issues.



KWhit -> RE: Bugs found in first few games... (9/29/2006 7:53:52 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Brockleigh

Oh, I bought the digital download and the physical shipment. I've already had one PC blow-up and go boom on me, so I wanted a little insurance in case it happened again.


You are truly a glutton for punishment.



GWsFBAStartOct292006 -> RE: Bugs found in first few games... (9/30/2006 1:18:43 AM)

David Winter,

Patenting situation of FootBall Playing is frustrating. I am not sure if this applies to [qoute]I don't have the specifics for the patent on the nets. The AFL claims they still own the patent[/qoute]; however I still cannot understand why what Madden NFL is doing with their licensing rights on CFB and Professional is not a monopoly, thus illegal.



Brockleigh -> RE: Bugs found in first few games... (10/1/2006 1:59:06 AM)

Hey GreatWhite,

What Dave and I were referring to in this thread was the Patent the AFL has over the brand of Indoor Football they play. Part of the patent is the ReboundNets that Dave had been precluded from using in Maximum Football.

In regards to the licensing matter. EA or Matrix or whomever can buy up all the licenses they want, and it isn't an anti-trust violation. It just means that other manufacturers can't make an NFL or NCAA licensed game. It doesn't keep the other manufacturers from making and profiting from the sale of a FOOTBALL game that they might develop, albeit unlicensed.

Brockleigh



GWsFBAStartOct292006 -> RE: Bugs found in first few games... (10/1/2006 2:48:18 AM)

Brockleigh,

I knew that, making the connection and I was venting a little.

This is not a licensing website or forum, so I will not debate you on it. Except, to refer you to MS VS Governments ant-monoply actions crout case, saddly in this world money always wins.



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