Battlefront gets Theatre of War (old name was WW2RTS). (Full Version)

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VicKevlar -> Battlefront gets Theatre of War (old name was WW2RTS). (7/28/2006 6:19:24 PM)

Supposed to be released by end of year. Dynamic battlefield is what really appeals to me as well as campaign system. Think CC3D!

http://battlefront.com/products/tow/index.html



Marc von Martial -> RE: Battlefront gets Theatre of War (old name was WW2RTS). (7/28/2006 6:47:30 PM)

Well, I followed this game (that is at it's 4th name IIRC) pretty close. I don't hold my breath untill I really see something physical on a shelf [;)]

Cool graphics, but they allways have been in the various screenshots they posted over the years. But the problem is that you won't be that close to the units if you fight RTS battles of the scale the game promises [;)]

It will all come down to the interface and how you really manage your units.



VicKevlar -> RE: Battlefront gets Theatre of War (old name was WW2RTS). (7/28/2006 7:13:20 PM)

Yeah....it's definitely been up an down over it's lifecycle. Martin has the release date now in December. Apparently, it's all but done and in full beta.......it should be given it's lifespan in development.

I thought the same way too on the camera issue with EYSA, of course, I started parking the camera on individual units all the time. TOW will have the same ability so up close and personal will look good.

Only downside I see so far is non-enterable buildings. Full dynamic battlefields with scars, shellholes, penetration marks on vehicles, destructible buildings but NO ability to enter buildings.



Marc von Martial -> RE: Battlefront gets Theatre of War (old name was WW2RTS). (7/28/2006 7:14:28 PM)

Wow, really, no buildings to enter? I did not know this.



VicKevlar -> RE: Battlefront gets Theatre of War (old name was WW2RTS). (7/28/2006 7:26:03 PM)

Yeah...quote from developer:
"The engine is definitely capable of handling soldiers in buildings. The interiors are fully modelled for example. It is possible for the engine, we had this feature, but we dropped it about a year ago - smth with gameplay and balancing. However could be one of the features for the addon.
So currently soldiers are not entering buildings. "





Hertston -> RE: Battlefront gets Theatre of War (old name was WW2RTS). (7/28/2006 7:38:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc Schwanebeck

I don't hold my breath untill I really see something physical on a shelf



Likewise. Its been vaporware for an awfully long time now, although hopefully Battlefront will kick it along.

It's a little worrying it ended up at BF, I think. I've certainly nothing against Battlefront by any means, but with the Maddox pedigree I'm surprised Ubi didn't take it on if it was as good as it was cracked up to be; I doubt very much BF was the sort of publisher considered when development started. I guess its possible Ubi and the other large publishers just thought it was too "hardcore" or "wargamey" for them, which would probably be very good news, I suppose.



junk2drive -> RE: Battlefront gets Theatre of War (old name was WW2RTS). (7/28/2006 7:50:07 PM)

I think the HIGH minimum system requirements have scared off some publishers.



old man of the sea -> RE: Battlefront gets Theatre of War (old name was WW2RTS). (7/28/2006 9:27:25 PM)

well, at least it isn't this Theatre of War

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BJQR3O/sr=1-2/qid=1154111124/ref=sr_1_2/104-2769849-9470335?ie=UTF8&s=videogames

That's the first thing I thought of when I read it. Theatre of War and Patriot where the games that killed 360 Pacific.

E



WITPgamer -> RE: Battlefront gets Theatre of War (old name was WW2RTS). (7/29/2006 1:35:24 AM)

double post



WITPgamer -> RE: Battlefront gets Theatre of War (old name was WW2RTS). (7/29/2006 1:36:19 AM)


Very interesting, it looks something like a 3D version of Close Comat which would be great if so. There looks to be an interview over with the Armchair General folks, too.

Armchair General Interview Link

The game sure looks pretty, if for nothing else Im tempted to buy it just to see these old vehicles in a 3D environment such as this.

[image]http://battlefront.com/products/tow/screenshots/images/Tiger%20Damaged.jpg[/image]

Mike



Oleg Mastruko -> RE: Battlefront gets Theatre of War (old name was WW2RTS). (7/29/2006 1:56:31 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WITPgamer
Very interesting, it looks something like a 3D version of Close Comat which would be great if so.


Eric Young Squad Assault should have been 3D version of Close Combat (by the same people who made CC no less) and it failed miserably....

I am very suspicious that this game will fare any better. It has been in the development for bloody ages, and as Hertston said, I doubt Battlefront was developer's first choice of publisher couple years ago, for all the wrong reasons.

BTW, even though Red Orchestra is nominally not an RTS, is there anything this vaporware game has, that RO doesn't have already in terms of features, tactics and realism??

Oleg





WITPgamer -> RE: Battlefront gets Theatre of War (old name was WW2RTS). (7/29/2006 2:11:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Oleg Mastruko

Eric Young Squad Assault should have been 3D version of Close Combat (by the same people who made CC no less) and it failed miserably....

I am very suspicious that this game will fare any better. It has been in the development for bloody ages, and as Hertston said, I doubt Battlefront was developer's first choice of publisher couple years ago, for all the wrong reasons.

BTW, even though Red Orchestra is nominally not an RTS, is there anything this vaporware game has, that RO doesn't have already in terms of features, tactics and realism??

Oleg




Well personally I dont think that you are giving the 1C/IL-2 guys enough credit, they have made what is about the best flight sim on the market and I dont see why after that success they would release something comparible to what Matrix had with Squad Assault.

As for battlefront being the publishers, beats me, Im hoping it means that they are targeting a different audience. You could also ask the same question of any developer going with a distributer such as Battlefront or Matrix I guess. PC games are getting less and less shelf space lately from what Ive seen and we are seeing more and more developers trying alternate distribution methods. Im my opinion this is good news, not bad, as otherwise these games and particually war games would likely not exist or would be dumbed down for the mass market. Anyways, Ive noticed someone has asked that same question over on the TOW forums, so hopefully we will see an answer straight from the horses mouth.

And as for comparing RO to any type of wargame I think you are comparing apples and oranges...one is an FPS (a good one Ill add) and the other is a command style game. Yes they both have WW2 units in there and varying degrees of realism, but that’s about where the comparison ends.



Reiryc -> RE: Battlefront gets Theatre of War (old name was WW2RTS). (7/29/2006 5:16:02 AM)

Looks pretty good, but am holding judgement until I see how infantry combat works. I hope it's not just an armor-fest game and is a solid infantry combat game with armor being more supportive in nature.




Arnir -> RE: Battlefront gets Theatre of War (old name was WW2RTS). (7/29/2006 5:55:37 AM)

The non-enterable buildings is a red flag for me.  Eliminated a lot of the battles I would have like to have played.



Hertston -> RE: Battlefront gets Theatre of War (old name was WW2RTS). (7/29/2006 8:42:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WITPgamer

Well personally I dont think that you are giving the 1C/IL-2 guys enough credit, they have made what is about the best flight sim on the market and I dont see why after that success they would release something comparible to what Matrix had with Squad Assault.



Heck, I LIKED Squad Assault. It wasn't perfect by any means, but what is?

I may be wide of the mark, but I suspect one reason ToW has been hanging around so long is that the "1C/IL-2 guys" became far more interested in THIS.



WITPgamer -> RE: Battlefront gets Theatre of War (old name was WW2RTS). (7/29/2006 11:15:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hertston

Heck, I LIKED Squad Assault. It wasn't perfect by any means, but what is?

I may be wide of the mark, but I suspect one reason ToW has been hanging around so long is that the "1C/IL-2 guys" became far more interested in THIS.


As I understand it they are being worked on by two totally seperate teams, at least thats the impression I got from what I read early. As for EYSA I guess maybe Im a little jaded on the matter as I also bought GIC previous to it...[X(]



Hortlund -> RE: Battlefront gets Theatre of War (old name was WW2RTS). (7/29/2006 2:59:15 PM)

Battlefront is really the ideal publisher for ToW. The CM series has been the leader of the tactical wargames genre since it first came out in 2000. No one has ever been close since. There has been plenty of games trying to dethrone CM, but all Ive seen so far are failed attempts, some more spectacular than others.

BF is not only publishing ToW though, they are included in the final stages of development aswell, and given BFs track record, that is something very good. Simply put, BF knows what is required for a game like this to work gameplay-wise, while 1c has made one of the most amazing and stunning gameengines yet.

This game will be the benchmark for ww2 tactical wargames for the next cycle, just like CM was between 00-06.



Oleg Mastruko -> RE: Battlefront gets Theatre of War (old name was WW2RTS). (7/29/2006 4:28:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Panzerjaeger Hortlund
BF is not only publishing ToW though, they are included in the final stages of development aswell, and given BFs track record, that is something very good. Simply put, BF knows what is required for a game like this to work gameplay-wise, while 1c has made one of the most amazing and stunning gameengines yet.


Battlefront's track record for any game other than their own CM series has been pretty bad in my opinion. Lots of products mis-handled, mis-advertised (or not advertised at all), and their "publisher's influence" on *other* developers has been far far from "very good" IMO.

Hats down to BF for their own CM series which revitalized wargaming and was/is a top notch product, and which they handled well (its their child after all), but all other games have been either mis-handled, or bad, or both.

BF = good as developers/designers, pretty bad as publishers of other people's games. Just my opinion.

O.



Les_the_Sarge_9_1 -> RE: Battlefront gets Theatre of War (old name was WW2RTS). (7/29/2006 4:29:43 PM)

I'll agree, Battlefront thanks to Combat Mission, can be said to "own" 3d graphics based squad level tactical wargaming to a large extent. Regardless of their game's age, I can't think of a 3d tactical wargame (that's not a shooter) that really has the same "impact" on the hobby.

But, the Il2 guys, they made a flight sim. I won't claim to know how close in programming a flight sim is to a 3d tactical squad level wargame, but, game egines are like vehicles I would assume. Just because you can make a great formula 1 racer, doesn't mean you have practical knowledge of how to make large scale construction equipment. There's more to it, than saying both are gas power vehicles with wheels.

I think over all, what Battlefront has to offer the project, is a good understanding of what wargamers will and will not tolerate in a squad level tactical wargame that uses 3d graphics. Beyond that, the software is either good or it isn't. And the guys making it can either achieve the expected results, or not. But, just because the Battlefront guys made a great game in Combat Mission, doesn't mean every developer they take on to publish will magically be able to equal them.

Which is why, even though we all think highly of Matrix Games, just because they can produce several great wargames, from several great developers, doesn't mean that every developer they bring in, can magically be as good as the others.
Case in point EYSA. It simply didn't fly. Nice looking attempt, but, it didn't actually work in the end.



ravinhood -> RE: Battlefront gets Theatre of War (old name was WW2RTS). (7/29/2006 8:15:41 PM)

Boy Battlefront really slapped Matrixgames in the face with this paragraph.

{It’s no surprise that Battlefront is now the publisher of this amazing game, to be honest, I feel that we are the only company that COULD publish it. With our extensive background in not only wargames, but this specific era, we bring to the table over 7 years of experience in publishing and since this game offers so much, in such an incredible way, we will be drawing on all of that experience and passion to make it the success it undoubtedly deserves to be. }

You gonna take that Keith, David, most especially MARC? ;)

But, then I read this paragraph:

{What’s interesting is that when I recently demoed the game, I noticed that everyone initially paused very frequently and gave units orders at a nearly constant pace. As they played though, and grew most accustomed to the interface, they noticed, as I did, that the AI is so good, that it would usually have the new orders, that I was thinking about issuing, already assigned. In }

And what we have here is another "movie type game" where the AI plays the game and you watch basically like other games I have noted this change in. Once again if you have to pause a game every few seconds it might as well be "turn based" anyways and then if the AI is going to issue the same orders as the player, welp that just makes it a "movie watching" game. Baah just another HTTR/COTA/Bullrun type of game. Not a wargame. A MOVIE! ;)



Arnir -> RE: Battlefront gets Theatre of War (old name was WW2RTS). (7/29/2006 8:36:16 PM)

No one is going to say, "Hey, lots of people could have put this out but we were selected at random from the phone book..."



Sarge -> RE: Battlefront gets Theatre of War (old name was WW2RTS). (7/29/2006 8:46:28 PM)

You know Ranthood I just don't get why you are sooooooooo Displeased with Matrix, Battlefront and just about every publisher out there. You just might want to start looking into a new hobby, it abundantly clear you hate just about every title put out in the last five years.





Sarge -> RE: Battlefront gets Theatre of War (old name was WW2RTS). (7/29/2006 8:52:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

Baah just another HTTR/COTA/Bullrun type of game. Not a wargame. A MOVIE! ;)



PS: Do you actually own the titles mentioned above or are they just more of your war gamming club community shareware.

HTTR/COTA not a wargame [sm=crazy.gif]

your just getting silly now



Marc von Martial -> RE: Battlefront gets Theatre of War (old name was WW2RTS). (7/29/2006 10:10:35 PM)

Don't feed the trolls.



Skeleton -> RE: Battlefront gets Theatre of War (old name was WW2RTS). (7/29/2006 11:08:57 PM)

Dear Ravinhead, please, please, please tell me, WHAT GAMES DO YOU LIKE? What publisher do YOU think is putting quality games out there? What games would YOU like to see made? Your constant whining and complaining is really sad and pathetic. You claim to be a "wargamer for over 50 years" but I have yet to read one post of yours that isn't more than a constant bitch rant. Have you been complaining like this for over 50 years? Since you value your own opinion so very much, and since it seems to be the only reason you post here, give it to us. What, if you had the ability and resources, would you make? Sack up my man, opinions should be more than just non-stop complaints. They should be, at the very least, somewhat enlightening.



Marc von Martial -> RE: Battlefront gets Theatre of War (old name was WW2RTS). (7/30/2006 12:10:59 AM)

What "would you make" is easy. Everybody can dream up the perfect game in his mind. What "can you make" that is the interesting question [;)]



old man of the sea -> RE: Battlefront gets Theatre of War (old name was WW2RTS). (7/30/2006 6:20:07 AM)

Marc, you are always cool....

E



liuzg150181 -> RE: Battlefront gets Theatre of War (old name was WW2RTS). (7/30/2006 6:50:37 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc Schwanebeck

What "would you make" is easy. Everybody can dream up the perfect game in his mind. What "can you make" that is the interesting question [;)]

I really admire your composure and short but right-on-the-mark reply, while at the same time it also makes me despise some annoying and trollish traits found on someone else.[;)]



dinsdale -> RE: Battlefront gets Theatre of War (old name was WW2RTS). (7/30/2006 7:26:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood
And what we have here is another "movie type game" where the AI plays the game and you watch basically like other games I have noted this change in.

Best stick to playing mancala or checkers then.

Being in the position which realistically creates the command decisions required for the scale/theatre is greatly rewarding. As you accurately noted, it's also the future. Board games, and the PC games which copied them, were limited by the technology. You had to move every counter yourself. Finally getting away from that and introducing the feeling of true command is the best step PC games have taken.

But I'm sure Tic-Tac-Toe will still require you to fill in every box ;)




Panzeh -> RE: Battlefront gets Theatre of War (old name was WW2RTS). (7/30/2006 8:17:49 AM)

I know ravinhood wants to deliver boot polish to troops to give a +1/8 on a fighting-retreat morale check, but some of us prefer to have subordinates doing boring stuff like that.



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