New Anti-armor Warhead? (Full Version)

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Dragoon 45 -> New Anti-armor Warhead? (7/31/2006 5:48:15 AM)

I was reading an article a few months back about the development of a new kenetic energy warhead. Unfortunately I can not find that article now. The warhead in question used an explosive charge to drive a long rod penetrator through armor instead of the HEAT principle. I thought it was a DARPA project for a replacement warhead for ATGM's to defeat reactive armor. Anyone remember this or have any info on it?



chief -> RE: New Anti-armor Warhead? (7/31/2006 6:54:00 AM)

Saw a bit on the History channel last week, damm nice weapon, if you can call any weapon nice.   FWIW



Dragoon 45 -> RE: New Anti-armor Warhead? (7/31/2006 10:36:36 AM)

Do you recall what it was called?

quote:

ORIGINAL: chief

Saw a bit on the History channel last week, damm nice weapon, if you can call any weapon nice.   FWIW




SemperAugustus -> RE: New Anti-armor Warhead? (7/31/2006 11:07:25 AM)

There is the "Kinetic Energy Missile" that has a long tungsten rod, maybe that is what you are looking for?



chief -> RE: New Anti-armor Warhead? (7/31/2006 10:30:16 PM)

Dragoon: Unfortunately I don't remember, I was channel surfing and stumbled on it, sorry. I believe it was under a program called Modern Weapons, had new gun ship mods, kinetic rod APR, and gatling gun and new radar mods for helos. Wish I could be of more help.



Dragoon 45 -> RE: New Anti-armor Warhead? (7/31/2006 11:09:58 PM)

That is also called an HVM, hyper velocity missile; it uses the velocity from the missile engine for energy to penetrate the armor. There are no explosives involved in this type missile as far as I know.
quote:

ORIGINAL: SemperAugustus

There is the "Kinetic Energy Missile" that has a long tungsten rod, maybe that is what you are looking for?




Dragoon 45 -> RE: New Anti-armor Warhead? (7/31/2006 11:10:36 PM)

Thank you anyway.

quote:

ORIGINAL: chief

Dragoon: Unfortunately I don't remember, I was channel surfing and stumbled on it, sorry. I believe it was under a program called Modern Weapons, had new gun ship mods, kinetic rod APR, and gatling gun and new radar mods for helos. Wish I could be of more help.




SemperAugustus -> RE: New Anti-armor Warhead? (8/1/2006 4:59:04 AM)

Take your pick:

LOSAT KEM
Compact Kinetic Energy Missile
Hypervelocity Anti-Tank Missile



Dragoon 45 -> RE: New Anti-armor Warhead? (8/1/2006 5:31:12 AM)

Thank you I was already aware of these, but these are not what I am looking for. LOSAT shows some promise, but I would imagine that it has a huge signature when fired. And I read somewhere there are some big problems designing a seeker head because they are so fast, there is not enough time to give corrections for moving targets. It may take a while to work all the bugs out of them.

All three of these use the energy of the missile motor to achieve hyper velocities around Mach 6-7. There is really not much difference in the mechanics of how they work vs a tank main gun round.

As I understand the warhead I am asking about, the missile will be relatively slow around Mach 1, but guided like a TOW round. When the warhead hits the target an explosive charge at the rear drives a long rod penetrator into and hopefully through the armor. The warhead does not burn its way through like a HEAT rd, but drives the penetrator through using kenetic energy provided by the explosive charge at the rear of the warhead acting against the penetrator. Think of it as a gun barrel in direct contact with the armor, with the act of striking the armor triggering the firing of the penetrator. At least that was the way I understood it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SemperAugustus

Take your pick:

LOSAT KEM
Compact Kinetic Energy Missile
Hypervelocity Anti-Tank Missile





SemperAugustus -> RE: New Anti-armor Warhead? (8/1/2006 3:55:32 PM)

So sort of a delayed action sabot round encased in a wireguided missile?



Dragoon 45 -> RE: New Anti-armor Warhead? (8/2/2006 12:46:34 AM)

That's a pretty good way of describing it. I can't find the article anymore and can't remember the name of the thing, so I was hoping someone here had remembered it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SemperAugustus

So sort of a delayed action sabot round encased in a wireguided missile?




Terminus -> RE: New Anti-armor Warhead? (8/2/2006 12:48:03 AM)

Sure it's going to be wire-guided? That's not exactly the "wave of the future", what with Javelin and such...



Dragoon 45 -> RE: New Anti-armor Warhead? (8/2/2006 7:20:30 AM)

Terminus,

I am going off memory, but this warhead was supposed to be a replacement warhead for the TOW-2's and other still effective, but aging ATGM's. Those weapons are wire guided, but that doesn't mean to say they won't use a different type seeker head. But I wouldn't discount wire guided missiles just yet. Laser guided are effective, but there is a lot of different laser warning systems out there also. One Russian system automatically slews the turret onto the bearing from which the laser originates and then fires laser opaque smoke. This system also aligns the main gun on the target also. The crew has the option to engage with the main gun. All the various systems have drawbacks and strengths. Wire guided has the strength of not being detectable by the target, whereas laser is. Wire guided missiles do have problems with slow speed, need for a highly trained operator, and vulnerability of the wire getting cut or broken while in flight.

Biggest problem with most ATGM's is their signature when they are fired. Its not quite as bad as the backblast of a recoilless gun, but still very noticeable if an observer is looking in the right place.

I retired out of the US Army less than 2 years ago. The Army is in love with its high-tech gadgets. Some of these gadgets work quite well while others are total failures. Right now the laser guided missiles and bombs are working very well in places all over the world. But, the people these weapons are being used against normally don't have any counter-measures. If one of our modern high tech armies gets into a fight with another equally equipped army, then we will have the real test to see just how well these weapons really work. I personally think the jury is still out on just how good these wonder weapons really are and time will tell. They work quite well right now, but in the continuing race between armor and anti-armor weapons, who knows what is next.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Sure it's going to be wire-guided? That's not exactly the "wave of the future", what with Javelin and such...




SemperAugustus -> RE: New Anti-armor Warhead? (8/2/2006 4:59:25 PM)

So it is definately a US system then?



Dragoon 45 -> RE: New Anti-armor Warhead? (8/2/2006 8:23:50 PM)

I think it is, but am not sure. TOW is used by a lot of different countries. Another reason I wish I could find the article.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SemperAugustus

So it is definately a US system then?




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