Adding Launch Parameters anyone? (Full Version)

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Bucks -> Adding Launch Parameters anyone? (8/1/2006 3:25:28 AM)

I've decided to transfer something I posted in the ANW support forum over here after running a test with an idea of adding launch parameters to weapon database display windows. I've edited the weapon text description to include this information and checked it in game.

quote:

ORIGINAL: darknite

<<edit>>

- Weapon launch profiles. There is NO place in the user DB to find out what the launch profile for a weapon is. It's very annoying to sneak up on a target and find you can't launch your ordnance without testing medium and high altitude to see if there's a launch restriction you have no way of knowing. Actually DB2000 has an online data base that has this info but it should be imbedded in the game.

Otherwise the game has played well and been very stable. Excellent work! Can't wait to try it in Multiplayer!



Database designers could also look at adding this information to the weapon text descriptions:

In the HUD for example Weapon ID#586 - Kh-25MP

Launch Alt. Min:40m - Max:20000m
Launch Spd. Min: 0kts - Max: 660kts
Russian air launched Anti-Radar Missile system.


The coloured text above would append itself to the weapon database view screen in H3. Here's what it would look like in game, sorry this was rushed just to validate, needs formating.

DB screen 1:-


[image]local://upfiles/21733/51C3A96BE0504CA99A263CD6EBE30EC7.jpg[/image]



hermanhum -> RE: Adding Launch Parameters anyone? (8/1/2006 3:45:08 AM)

Have you tested the Max Launch Speed parameter?

I believe that a new behaviour under ANW is the fact that strike missions attack at the maximum possible speed given the fuel status. This means that if the target is very close to the airfield, the strikers could launch and fly at the target at either Full Military power or even Afterburner Speeds.

Do you know if the AI is able to slow down in order release weapons? The example you show is for a weapon that must be fired at less than 660kts.

Also, for some missions in the older H3.6.3, AI missions were unable to find the proper altitude to launch weapons. For example, Backfires placed on ASuW area patrol missions might encounter problems if their missile release altitude was 9000m since planes on that mission often flew at about 6000m. Therefore, they wouldn't fly high enough to allow their weapons to be used and the AI didn't know to go any higher.

Have you tested various altitude combinations in ANW to see if the AI is more capable of finding the correct launch parameters to employ its weapons?



Bucks -> RE: Adding Launch Parameters anyone? (8/1/2006 4:20:34 AM)

Missed the point Herman. The guy wanted to see the weapons launch parameters. I can only fix database related matters, not code. That's the purvue of the code owners I believe.

quote:



ORIGINAL: darknite

<<edit>>

- Weapon launch profiles. There is NO place in the user DB to find out what the launch profile for a weapon is. It's very annoying to sneak up on a target and find you can't launch your ordnance without testing medium and high altitude to see if there's a launch restriction you have no way of knowing. Actually DB2000 has an online data base that has this info but it should be imbedded in the game.

Otherwise the game has played well and been very stable. Excellent work! Can't wait to try it in Multiplayer!


I had hoped that this solution provided the information darknite was after via the in-game Database display. The information I added was taken directly from my database via JonR's editor even added to a new text file ref for that weapon with the editor. Now as I said if the game isn't working as you'd like it too I have no magic wand for that just like most people, opinions...

Thanks

Darren



ClaudeJ -> RE: Adding Launch Parameters anyone? (8/1/2006 4:41:03 AM)

It sounds to be a very good idea "Bucks"  darren, would you mind if i apply it in a DB?



hermanhum -> RE: Adding Launch Parameters anyone? (8/1/2006 4:42:37 AM)

Ah, I see. PlayersDB has implemented a partial solution.

We switched:

quote:

Length field for "Max Launch Altitude"
Span field for "Minimum Launch Altitude"

Both values are one-tenth of actual.
i.e. 6000.0m is 60,000m


It isn't perfect, but it is certainly functional.

I agree, your suggestion to have one specific Text description / weapon is more complete and accurate.

We've been hesitant to do it for PlayersDB simply because it creates some Massive text files since there are 1800+ weapons. Hopefully, we will be able to do it the way you suggested in the not too far future. It is the proper solution and ours is only an interim one.

Good idea! [&o]

[image]local://upfiles/18146/6F469DBF3A9D4AB7907286E4DD671228.gif[/image]



Bucks -> RE: Adding Launch Parameters anyone? (8/1/2006 4:47:05 AM)

Jan, go right ahead mate. btw anyone with a Zappa quote that good could have just gone right ahead.

Go for it, btw that's why I posted the idea so we can all look if we can add it. Harpoon in just about any version is mainly about information. The more access you give the players the more they enjoy the game, I'm sure.

Darren



ClaudeJ -> RE: Adding Launch Parameters anyone? (8/1/2006 4:57:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bucks

(...) Harpoon in just about any version is mainly about information. The more access you give the players the more they enjoy the game, I'm sure.

Darren


Totally agree, players need to be able to focus on nothing else than decision making.



hermanhum -> RE: Adding Launch Parameters anyone? (8/1/2006 5:03:11 AM)

Here is an example of a Text Description for the SET-92 torpedo:

quote:

Dual-purpose torpedo (surface / submarine target)
Surface / Sub 533mm
13.5nm @ 25kts
8.3nm @ 40kts
SET-65 with new seeker


Maybe you could devise a standardized format for placing Max/Min Launch Altitude/Speed into it. Thanks for all your help in editing the PlayersDB Text Descriptions.



Bucks -> RE: Adding Launch Parameters anyone? (8/1/2006 5:10:25 AM)

Herman,
I totally agree with that mate but not sure how'd you get universal agreement with anything to do with this game mate. Maybe we need to take a poll or something one that subject not sure. I like that torpedo example you've given, as well as we probably don't need to have a single text file for every weapon. There'd be a reasonable % that don't require it if they are identical specs for different versions of the same weapon. (with only a seeker change etc)

Darren



hermanhum -> RE: Adding Launch Parameters anyone? (8/1/2006 5:44:11 AM)

quote:


I totally agree with that mate but not sure how'd you get universal agreement with anything to do with this game mate. Maybe we need to take a poll or something one that subject not sure. I like that torpedo example you've given, as well as we probably don't need to have a single text file for every weapon. There'd be a reasonable % that don't require it if they are identical specs for different versions of the same weapon. (with only a seeker change etc)


Universal agreement in the Harpoon community? Are you kidding?! Peace in the Middle East, first! [;)] [:D]

I think that, as editors, all we can do is try to please as many folks as we can. Since Jan has taken it upon himself to add and make the revisions necessary, I guess that he'll decide what the best course for PlayersDB is.

However, I don't know how many generalities we can make. Torpedoes and missiles are very specific. The Text Description example I provided is very unlikely to be the same as any other weapon. It is probably going to end up very nearly one Text description / Weapon.

One format that might work could be:

quote:

Generic Name / description
Min / Max Launch Alt.
Min / Max Launch Spd.
Fuel Range (as opposed to the firing range already shown)

Full description with details.



mikmykWS -> RE: Adding Launch Parameters anyone? (8/4/2006 7:41:05 AM)

Great idea guys thanks[:)]



jkruny -> RE: Adding Launch Parameters anyone? (8/4/2006 4:47:47 PM)

hoo boy!

The database gurus are gonna love you guys!



hermanhum -> RE: Adding Launch Parameters anyone? (8/25/2006 2:23:15 PM)

The PlayersDB has gone ahead and done as suggested. Wherever pertinent, we have included the Max/Min Altitude launch parameters for every weapon.

    i.e. Launch Alt. Min: 40m - Max:20000m

No more guessing at the release altitudes while your planes are dodging SAM and AAA fire! [:D]

Thanks for the suggestion!



VonTommer -> RE: Adding Launch Parameters anyone? (9/6/2006 3:09:08 AM)

You guys are thinking! Good idea. It will take a little bit of work but certainly DB1945 could benefit too. With the system I use for bombs ie., HA (High Altitude), MA (Medium Altitude) etc., there are alot of bomb types with different altitude restrictions. Not to mention all the air dropped torpedoes.

The player should have a way to know these "Operating Altitudes", other than by just seeing "Altitude to High" or "Too Low" in the weapons allocation screen. A very simple but brilliant idea, putting that in the weapons text for each weapon.

As far as attacking altitudes, for you guys creating new databases or even you veterans, the AI attacker will always attempt to release a weapon, (Bomb, Missile or Torpedo), at it's lowest altitude value, (For aircraft), or it use to. For DB1945 we could not leave that lower limit for every bomb or weapon at 100 meters. (Sort of a standard when we started looking at how other databases were modeled when trying to create DB1945). For that B-17, we needed weapons with a low limit which was much higher than 100 meters, 17000 to 25000 ft, that would cause the AI B17, under mission, to come in on attack from a realistic altitude. Thus all the HA/MA/LA bomb types in DB1945. Each aircraft has to behave appropriatley when attacking, whether it attacks normally at 100 meters or above 20,000 feet as with a level bomber.

The low release value for a weapon determines the attack altitude for the AI aircraft and AI aircraft usually go to that altitude automatically when under mission.
Players, up to now, have had to guess at that altitude band for each loadout/weapon. Better to have that information handy in the database description.

This new idea is great.

Good job Bucks and Darknite?

Tom



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