Nemo121 -> RE: RHS EOS Nemo (J) vs Aztez (A). Not for Aztez. (8/23/2006 10:34:33 PM)
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Aztez, quote:
well you do not insult people directly but you do imply A LOT. Hmm, people read things as they wish them to be. In all portions of communication there is what is actually said, what is intended and what is interpreted. I control my intention and what I say. How the factuality of what I say is interpreted is completely out of my control. I don't ever intend to imply any insults. If I think someone is a low-down dirty cheater I will say that. If I think that I disapprove of their actions but can see how others wouldn't then I say that. I always try ( sometimes not succesfully) to differentiate between my feelings and the objective reality of the situation since that's an essential part of my job. It is completely irrelevant what my wishes and feelings are when I am treating a person who is bleeding to death from a knife wound or gunshot wound. I do my job to the best of my ability and they live or die based on whether I make the right choices quickly enough PLUS an impact from the severity of their injuries... some people simply can never be saved, no matter what I do, by the time they reach me. So, if you think I imply something then ask me to clarify it. I will always try to explain it irrespective of whether my view will be popular or unpopular ( since popularity is another irrelevancy to me) in a manner which leaves no room for error. quote:
I cannot help you IF you don't understand your NATIVE language??? Again, more emotional assumptions and completely unresearched assertions. English is not my native language, it is my 3rd language. If you're going to engage in vitriol at the very least you could try to tone down the completely unresearched assertions. quote:
For you the historical game means that EVERYTHING goes!!! Within the capabilities of the forces modelled within the game ( so long as they are interceptible and not obviously bugged), yes. I find it surprising that you could be surprised by this after reading my AARs. Just how the hell did you NOT know that was my style? It is so obviously my style that in my current game my opponent's only question is how soon I am going for India and not whether or not I am going for it. quote:
those do not count unless EVERYTHING is spelled out for you! Pretty much correct, and I've never pretended otherwise... The only caveat is those areas which arise mid-game which weren't foreseen in pre-game discussions. However if something was foreseen in pre-game discussions then I will ALWAYS stick within the parameters outlined pre-game BUT if something isn't outruled then its fair game IMO. My view is that the rules should outrule EVERYTHING which one doesn't want to see happen but that everything which isn't outruled is allowed. You may differ philosophically from this viewpoint but I would hope that in the same way as I allow you to hold your views without personally attacking you for them you will allow me to hold mine without personally attacking me for them... for a change. To be fair though, when I play as the Allies I let my Japanese opponent have the exact same leeway as when I play as the Japanese so it isn't as though I'm setting up one set of rules for one side and another set for the other just in the search for advantage. So, the rules under which I'm playing my current RHS EOS game as the Japanese will be precisely the same rules under which I'd be happy to play an RHS EOS game as the Allies. quote:
Yeah, I tried to move at least couple of brigades to Singapore since there where no AV present there! There are, IIRC, 2 Brigades there at game-start so the last part of your above statement is factually incorrect. And you moved 3 Bdes and some BF there and blocked my move orders in a manner which clearly BROKE one of our pre-game rules. Was it a huge issue? No but I do think it is rich of you to talk about me breaking rules etc willy nilly when you are unable to come up with one example of a pre-game rule I broke and I have one obvious one which you broke repeatedly. You are trying to make out that I was unfair to you because I did things which were not explicitly banned but when you repeatedly did things which WERE explicitly banned you gloss over it. I believe that is a double-standard. See, no insinuation. When I think it I say it, you need not parse my words for meaning, the meaning is quite clear and nothing is hidden. quote:
Well that is gamey and I SHOULD have objected it since you did offer redo on turn 1. Yes, if it was an issue for you you SHOULD have objected. I would have happily redone turn 1 if you objected since I was surprised that people were so strongly against the Johore Bahru landing AND when my next opponent objected to it I DID redo my turn 1 and there was no Johore Bahru landing. You didn't object at the time though so you missed that opportunity which I offered you and casting aspersions on me is pointless. You should blame yourself for not being objective and taking advantage of my offer to redo the turn without any invasions you objected to. There is nothing NICE or NOT NICE about accepting a turn 1 you are unhappy with. If you are unhappy with the turn 1 and think it is gamey then it is stupid to continue the game IMO. You should have asked for a redone turn 1 without the Johore landings and I would have happily granted this. As to the Lunacy game... Well we agreed that we would apply the rules of uninterceptibility and newtonian physics to issues which arose in-game. There was no specific rule against teleporting into a besieged Karachi because I simply didn't know it was possible to do such a thing. If I'd known I'd have asked for it to be banned. Is that right or wrong? Neither. its just a personal preference and I don't try to brow-beat anyone into changing their personal preferences in just the same way as I'm disappointed that you and others seem to feel you have the right to attack me over an issue of viewpoint. I'm happy to let you live with your viewpoint ( and disagree with it) but it seems the same courtesy isn't extended to me. It is, of course, simply another example of the group mentality of attacking "the other" in action on these fora but is, nonetheless, still frustrating to see in action. And to post that it was abandoned due to a timetable tossed to garbage is factually incorrect and a contention difficult to understand given that I've explained my exact reasons behind that whole thing in this very thread. itsjustme... I'm only mentioning our game here to answer a point Aztez raised. No more, no less. quote:
The second came where you are implying that NIK's Mod is flawed due to the fact you had lost your KB! That's a factually incorrect assertion. I am stating ( not implying) that NikMod WAS flawed in the version I played because in December 1941 Allied naval strike groups did not achieve 19 times more hits per sortie than the elite Japanese naval strike groups. Now if Nik will EXPLAIN why his mod isn't flawed then I'm more than happy to accept the explanation and admit my analysis was wrong. However, so far, I've gotten assertions and little explanation of how and why. I think most reasonable people would agree that an assertion without explanation of how and why is not usually an acceptable answer to a complicated issue like this. quote:
I can say that NIK Mod is one of the best mods around these forums. (Many AAR's to prove it) It may well be one of the best mods around NOW. On the other hand my issue is with an old version of the mod. The current mod is improved and, I think, eliminates the issue my analysis pointed to. OTOH no mod ( or stock game) is perfect and so while NikMod is a very good mod it is NOT perfect and I don't see anything wrong with pointing out what my analysis of a Coral Sea-like test raised as a major issue. I also feel constrained to point out that one CAN criticise a product without meaning any disrespect to the author. One can criticise my gameplay, my work etc etc without implying any disrespect for me. If I, factually, choose an incorrect course of treatment and one of my patients dies then criticising me for choosing the incorrect choice of treatment is absolutely valid, correct and completely impersonal. I am criticising NikMod's results in 5.0something and pointing out where I think a flaw in the combat model lay. There is nothing personal in this and, several times, when asked about this I've made it clear that there is a difference in criticising the mod and the man. I don't see why people are getting so worked up over a criticism of an old version of a mod. It is a histrionic over-reaction. As to the man... Yes, I've criticised him over his lack of willingness to set the whole thing to rest by engaging in 10 or 15 minutes of typing 2 or 3 posts which try to explain how effect and disruption in air combat are related and why the changes made result in no change to aircraft disruption. I do feel that people have an obligation to explain their actions ( which is the only reason why I post when I'm challenged or asked to clarify myself by posts like yours). I don't particularly enjoy responding and I DO think it is a complete waste of bandwidth and your time and mine ( and the readers) since it will, in the end, solve nothing BUT I feel an obligation to explain if questioned. Simple. quote:
you imply a lot on these forums about your fellow members. Nope. That's simply your fantasy and interpretation. If I think anything of a forum member I'm more than happy to say it straight to their face. I detest people implying things about other people almost as much as I detest people substituting emotionality for objective reality. No, if I think something of someone then I have absolutely no problem stating it publicly and clearly irrespective of the reception it would receive. I wouldn't bother trying to imply anything at all since I'm quite comfortable saying whatever I think publicly and clearly. So, if you think things are implied that is simply something which is occurring in your own head and not in mine. As such, it is your problem and not mine. quote:
you are blind enough to see when you have "insulted" other people I have forfeited that hope. Believe me, when I want to insult someone there's no doubt at all about it having happened because I am more than happy to come right out and say "I believe you are an x or y" etc and, if later, I turn out to be wrong I will apologise. However you want apologies for things you've read into what I've written but which I never intended to be there. I can only be responsible for what I write, not what someone else wishes to project onto it. quote:
As good luck whatever you do! And to you... I honestly don't understand why you are getting so emotionally overwrought over this whole thing. I really do think you are reading things into what I'm writing that aren't there and you should, instead, just assume that I mean precisely what I say, no more, no less and wouldn't be bothered with implications and hidden meanings. Now, we all sometimes make mistakes cause this is the net and we don't proofread what we type 50 times but if you THINK I'm implying something just ask me and I'll happily explain myself and 90% of the time what you or others might think is being hinted at simply isn't being hinted at at all... However it helps IMMEASURABLY if you ASK and don't just assume while you are letting emotionality over-rule logic. Aztez, Well if you stop responding and raising issues I feel bound to address in explanation then this will soon come to a halt. OTOH so long as you raise new issue I do feel an obligation to explain. It may well be that no-one is willing to accept that someone can try to parse these things as logically as I can and that people want to keep believing that there are ulterior motives and hidden implications but I view it as my responsibility to try to clear up misunderstanding ( hence my feeling an obligation to respond) and NOT my responsibility to ensure others actually see the reality of the situation. If people want to mislead themselves then they will. It is becoming clear, however, that there is a simple fundamental chasm between what I intend to communicate and others' perception of what I intend ( some of this is undoubtedly due to the time and manner in which I learnt English and some is due to the fact that people's interpretations are coloured by what they WISH and/or expect to hear) and also of what I value vs what others ascribe to me. I'll make 1 effort to explain this. I think a story would help you understand where I'm coming from better... Anything I write below is purely factual and there are no insinuations or anything. If you read any into it then it is your own mental process doing the insinuating... A few years ago I was asked a question in one of those truth or dare games we all play when we have a few drinks in us. It was the perennial "who would you save"... The question was if my parents, my kid brother and my girlfriend at the time were in a building and the building went on fire whom would I save. Now, for me, the answer was obvious. My parents are nearing retirement and have contributed as much to society as they are going to contribute. My brother is young but when he finishes university he will contribute a lot to society in his given career and through, generally, being a good person. My girlfriend at the time was also young but unlikely to contribute as much to society as my brother. So, for me, the only true answer was that I would save my brother because he had a greater chance of contributing meaningfully to society. Neither my parents or brother were there, only my girlfriend so many people would have, for a quiet life, said they would have saved their girlfriend. However that isn't what I would have done so I said that I'd have saved my brother and gave my reason ( I do have enough sense to add the caveat that my parents wouldn't want to be saved if it meant my brother dying so I did add that.). End result: GF at the time was very pissed off at me but I really do try not to do emotionality or make-believe or playing for popularity. I always try to give the most honest, logical answer or argument I can, consequences bedamned. Do I sometimes fail, yes but if you ask for clarification I'll give it and the chances of there being some intentional implied insult is pretty much zero. As to the fact that I don't accept unsupported assertion... Simple, I regularly had to make calls over who got life support machines and who didn't ( and thus died). Sometimes this meant telling families who were waiting on other family members to show up to "say goodbye" that we didn't have time anymore, that someone else who could benefit from the machine needed it and that we had to switch it off and let their loved one die so that someone else who MIGHT survive if they got that machine DID get that machine. At other times it meant telling them that we weren't going to treat their relative except in a supportive manner for reasons of likelihood of survival or availability of resources etc. In such a situation, when you are the one going into families to tell them you are turning the machine off at half past the hour or refusing to send this person in for such and such an operation which the family, wrongly, believes might save them then you had BETTER have more than an unsupported assertion to back you up. You had better be able to PROVE that you were doing the right thing ( for the overall patient base) by turning off the life support and condemning that individual patient to death and some of his family to a lifetime of "I never got to say goodbye". I once ( only once) gave in and let an 18 year old boy get put on life support because his mother and father couldn't agree on whether to let him die or not. This decision was made, not for the sake of the 18 year old, he was definitely going to die one way or the other, but because I felt that if I refused to put the 18 year old on the machine and his mother blamed his father on this their marriage might split apart... and we only had four and a half minutes to make the decision because the kid was in respiratory arrest when I left the room to have the discussion with the parents. I figured we could talk to her the next day and when she was less emotional and we had more than four minutes she could make a more appropriate decision. My consultant, the next day, berated me for putting the kid on life support. He remonstrated that I SHOULD have let the kid die the night before and family dynamics bedamned. That criticism he made wasn't personal ( same as my criticism of nikmod isn't personal). it was simply a statement that I'd made the wrong decision and should have known better. He was right to make that criticism and I was wrong to let an emotional issue cloud my judgement ( and if I thought I was right I would have argued with him and if I'd proven myself right he'd have backed down. This is the way good medical teams work. You stand up for yourself, argue the facts and the ones with the wrong facts give way. Simple, objective and good for the patients.). I should have let the kid die overnight and if I had it to do again I would let the kid die overnight. So, you may not understand my unwillingness to let emotion cloud the objective reality of the situation but it is a completely impersonal thing. Now when you've looked into the eyes of families and told them you are, effectively, going to kill their loved ones because of a resource shortage and had to weather them calling you every name under the sun then, maybe, you'll understand why I don't see any point in putting on a pretence in this forum and wouldn't bother implying an insult. I've said FAR, FAR worse to people straight to their faces in real life so I'm not going to balk at telling someone I'll never meet that I dislike them personally ( even if any personal emotional interaction is just another irrelevancy... except insofar as a dislike of someone can lead one to prejudge what they are saying and interpret it incorrectly in order to avoid any conflict with one's prejudices.). As I said, much of what you read into what I write exists only in your mind although, to be fair, my writing style is very different to most English speakers' writing styles but that's because I only learnt it quite late and mostly from quite classical writings ( early 20th Century books and the like). I didn't read my first "modern prose" until 3 or 4 years after I started learning English. Again though if you'd just bothered to ask and seek information before jumping to baseless assumptions you'd have known that.
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