Air Combat TF not moving...WHY? (Full Version)

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RAM -> Air Combat TF not moving...WHY? (8/17/2006 10:14:22 PM)

ok, now I want to hear any possible explanation for "this".

Situation: 2 CV american Air Combat TF at 69.117 . KB detected some 5 hexes N-NW from Luganville. Reaction range: 0. Fuel Status OK (lexington is a bit low on fuel, but all escorts have plenty). Spruance is in Command.

AF TF receives orders to retire towards brisbane at full speed. Both home base and destination are set to that base.


Next combat phase the TF not only doesn't retire at full speed...it moves to 70 117 (I assume reaction move when reaction range was 0 ¿?¿?¿?¿?¿?) where the KB, which has moved into range, spanks the he11 out of it and sinks both carriers.


Now...what the f... happened here?...anyone?



anarchyintheuk -> RE: Air Combat TF not moving...WHY? (8/17/2006 10:38:58 PM)

Just because you tell them what you want them to do, it doesn't mean that they will. Your subordinates are officers, who are trained to use their initiative. Choosing a cautious cvtf commander can help but doesn't guarantee.

BTW. I know how you feel. Not too many cvtf commanders would go charging off at 2 to 5 odds. They should rate commanders like that as "insane" or "suicidal" instead of "aggressive".



VSWG -> RE: Air Combat TF not moving...WHY? (8/17/2006 10:44:14 PM)

Yes, despite what the manual says ("TFs  with reaction range set to 0 will never react") an aggressive commander like Spruance might react to enemy carriers even if rr=0.



RAM -> RE: Air Combat TF not moving...WHY? (8/17/2006 10:47:15 PM)

Well, the reaction range thing I can accept.

but how, in this earth, can a TF which has received orders to retire at full steam towards Brisbane doesn't even move in the night phase?...plenty of OP points left, decent fuel status (enough to reach Brisbane without refuelling at any point), and they don't move?...



VSWG -> RE: Air Combat TF not moving...WHY? (8/17/2006 10:56:31 PM)

Because the decision to react is made before the night movement phase:

quote:

Manual:

Night Resolution Phase – The system processes all orders, which are resolved over a
night period of 12 hours.


a) Load/Unload - Transport Task Forces load and unload cargos. (Section 6.1.19)
b) Coastwatcher Check and Trigger Reactions - Coastwatchers attempt to sight
enemy Task Forces. Task Forces that have “React to Enemy” movement orders this
turn receive their new destinations. (Section 8.7)
c) Auto Minesweeping - Automated Minesweeping Task Forces (those set on computer
control) conduct minesweeping operations. (Section 6.1.26)
d) Naval Movement - Task Forces move towards their destinations. Ships expend
endurance points, check for system damage due to being at sea, and conduct mine
warfare operations (including being attacked by mines). (Section 6.1.26.4)



Feinder -> RE: Air Combat TF not moving...WHY? (8/17/2006 11:17:48 PM)

I can tell my fleet that you must fly your missions at 16,000' but I can't keep my CVs from disobeying orders and committing suicide.

-F-



dtravel -> RE: Air Combat TF not moving...WHY? (8/17/2006 11:20:16 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: VSWG

Because the decision to react is made before the night movement phase:

quote:

Manual:

Night Resolution Phase – The system processes all orders, which are resolved over a
night period of 12 hours.


a) Load/Unload - Transport Task Forces load and unload cargos. (Section 6.1.19)
b) Coastwatcher Check and Trigger Reactions - Coastwatchers attempt to sight
enemy Task Forces. Task Forces that have “React to Enemy” movement orders this
turn receive their new destinations. (Section 8.7)
c) Auto Minesweeping - Automated Minesweeping Task Forces (those set on computer
control) conduct minesweeping operations. (Section 6.1.26)
d) Naval Movement - Task Forces move towards their destinations. Ships expend
endurance points, check for system damage due to being at sea, and conduct mine
warfare operations (including being attacked by mines). (Section 6.1.26.4)




Which also means that they are reacting to enemy ships that they not only haven't spotted, but ships that they physically can't spot.

You will also note that they react not by heading towards where the enemy ships are but by heading towards where they will be 12 to 24 hours later. Which can be up to 500 miles different.



VSWG -> RE: Air Combat TF not moving...WHY? (8/17/2006 11:37:39 PM)

This would be surreal.

Maybe is should be read as Coastwatcher "Check and Trigger Reactions" instead of "Coastwatcher Check" and "Trigger Reactions" (only reactions caused by coastwatcher sightings happen in this phase).

[&:]



Sonny -> RE: Air Combat TF not moving...WHY? (8/18/2006 12:06:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RAM

Well, the reaction range thing I can accept.

but how, in this earth, can a TF which has received orders to retire at full steam towards Brisbane doesn't even move in the night phase?...plenty of OP points left, decent fuel status (enough to reach Brisbane without refuelling at any point), and they don't move?...


Maybe they retired at full speed then in the morning movement came back at full speed (thus ending in the same hex they started in) and then reacted one hex toward the spotted enemy TF.



tsimmonds -> RE: Air Combat TF not moving...WHY? (8/18/2006 4:39:02 AM)

The only reliable way to get an ACTF to do what you want it to do, is to set it to follow an SCTF with an aggressive leader and reaction=0; send that SCTF to where you want the ACTF to be.



bradfordkay -> RE: Air Combat TF not moving...WHY? (8/18/2006 6:54:17 AM)

There is a separate CV reaction move which is completely different from "reaction range". This occurs when enemy CV TFs are close to being within range of a CV TFs aircraft; the CV TF with an aggressive leader will close the range one hex in order to make sure that its aircraft will reach the enemy. This reaction has been in the game since the beginning (UV).



Vladd -> RE: Air Combat TF not moving...WHY? (8/18/2006 9:13:25 AM)

Wasn't there something about changing the TF mission to something other than air combat to guarantee retirement? Does cap still fly in that circumstance?





Jim D Burns -> RE: Air Combat TF not moving...WHY? (8/18/2006 10:48:09 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RAM
but how, in this earth, can a TF which has received orders to retire at full steam towards Brisbane doesn't even move in the night phase


Remember that Iranian airliner shot down by a US ship in the gulf about 10 years ago. If I remember it right the Capt. had been ordered at least twice to retire south but instead chased those gunboats north and in the end launched the missile that downed the airliner.

I guarantee some US Admiral was screaming about the fact he had ordered his ship to retire and it didn’t. Aggressive commanders can be a pain in the arse sometimes.

Jim



mogami -> RE: Air Combat TF not moving...WHY? (8/18/2006 4:11:53 PM)

Hi, Send me the file for turn before reaction. MNeer1@woh.rr.com. I can't hazzard a quess without seeing the file.



RAM -> RE: Air Combat TF not moving...WHY? (8/19/2006 2:00:55 PM)

unfortunately we moved on in our game, so I don't have the savegame anymore...I'll ask my opponent if he still has a file of that turn, but other than that...



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