Problem with GeForce (Full Version)

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Kuokkanen -> Problem with GeForce (8/31/2006 10:52:23 AM)

I have bought GeForce 7800 GS AGP model, and guess what? I have problem! When starting anything, except basic Windows programs, computer crashes. Screen goes black and power light of monitor starts blinking (usually mean monitor don't get signal). I got few times blue screen which said something about problems with file nv_driv (or something like that) performing infinite loop (I think).

This is what I have done: I downloaded newest ForceWare, uninstalled Catalyst, swapped Radeon to GeForce, started computer, installed new ForceWare and I had those problems. After that series of uninstalls and reinstalls, software from CD-ROM which came with GeForce, different resolutions and refresh rates and so on and so forth. Card itself requires power cable and it's in. Card is made by Club 3D.

Programs which have caused crashes: PowerDVD, Fraps, 3DMark06, F.E.A.R. demo, Quake 4 and MekWars. Standard Windows stuff, like Internet Explorer and Notepad, seem to work fine, at least for short time.

Elsewhere someone said something about power. I've got 300 watt PSU. I bought card from place where PC was first assembled, they had list of all the parts and they said PSU should be good enough.

PC was assembled from parts I wanted and what was available, I underlined that I will update hardware in some point and DVD writer was changed when I found out it isn't compatible with DVD-RAM. If there is lack of power, someone has screwed up and it isn't me.



Marc von Martial -> RE: Problem with GeForce (8/31/2006 11:38:40 AM)

Did you put the card in? If yes make sure you have attached the needed powercable to the graphic card. New generation graphic cards need there own dedicated power supply.

If that isn't the case (but it sounds like it is [;)]) then please list your main rig specs here. CPU, RAM, etc. , we know about the card. 300 Watt sounds a bit weak.



Kuokkanen -> RE: Problem with GeForce (8/31/2006 12:35:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc Schwanebeck

Did you put the card in? If yes make sure you have attached the needed powercable to the graphic card. New generation graphic cards need there own dedicated power supply.

You should read more carefully: I mentioned it on 1st post [:-]

quote:

Card itself requires power cable and it's in.



quote:

If that isn't the case (but it sounds like it is [;)]) then please list your main rig specs here. CPU, RAM, etc. , we know about the card. 300 Watt sounds a bit weak.

Sempron 3100+ on Socket 754, one gig DDR on two DIMMs, HDD, FDD, two DVD drives, 19" CRT (powercable on wall but it may take few watts from graphic adapter), MS Wheel Mouse (optical version) and Windows XP Home Edition. I don't remember models of mother board and PSU.

Anyways elsewhere someone else said that graphic adapter requires 350 watts PSU so it is possible that someone on shop screwed up after all. In addition I have read about similar symptoms on computer magazine where two top of the line graphic adapters were too much for PSU. Difference is that in my case graphic adapter gets overloaded only when it needs do some serious work.

But one thing bothers me: MekWars. Game was known as MegaMekNET before and I have wrote about it around here somewhere so you might know about it. Anyways it's Java application and as far as I know, it shouldn't stress graphic adapter like PowerDVD and Quake 4.



Marc von Martial -> RE: Problem with GeForce (8/31/2006 3:04:16 PM)

One gig of DDR with that card and a rather strong CPU is too much for a 300 Watt PSU. I would go to the shop and let them put in another PSU, starting with 400 Watt and check if that solves the problem. It should.

I didn't calculate power consumption, just a rough guess from personal experience, I once had the very same problem although theoretically my old PSU should have been enough.



Kuokkanen -> RE: Problem with GeForce (9/2/2006 9:23:35 PM)

When I was in store discussing about new PC 3 years ago, I told the manager that I'm going to upgrade it at some point. I mentioned Radeon X900 as example and he guaranteed (or so he said) that PSU would be enough for it. For some reason I doubt it wouldn't had been enough for X800 Radeons of the time (X900 didn't exist yet). In addition on store I bought GeForce from (where PC was assembled and delivered to another store where I received it) they said my PSU should be enough for it.

So I made phone calls to both stores. Conclusion was that most probable reason is PSU is insufficient. So I made deal with (new) manager of store I had bought my PC from: I would get 350 W PSU for 15€. When I had first got keys for my new student apartment, I went to that store and asked could they make install there and test it out with F.E.A.R. demo while I deliver my stuff to my apartment. It was agreed for extra 10 €. I went back to store, they said it's installed and working (tech guy had played F.E.A.R. to first autosave point), I paid it, got it to my apartment and went back to home for weekend.

Now I have 300 W ATX PSU and on my old PC happens to be mother board (Socket 7 where 400 MHz K6-2) which has slots for both AT and ATX cables. And Radeon 9600XT. Worth a try installing those? Mother board AGP is either 2x or 4x (how do I find out?). Now if I could find faster processor which fits on Socket 7...



redwolf -> RE: Problem with GeForce (9/5/2006 1:25:34 AM)

This is almost certainly insufficient power.

The overall Watts rating of the PSU mean nothing in practice, they are too inflated by bad vendors.

To help you, the first thing I'd need is that you post the individual power rating of the different Volts. There should be a sticker on the PSU. Example: 12V - 45A, +5V - 30A and the like. It might also have a vendor name on it.

There is no way to buy a PSU for a $300 grahics cards for 15 bucks ;)



Kuokkanen -> RE: Problem with GeForce (9/6/2006 10:35:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: redwolf

The overall Watts rating of the PSU mean nothing in practice, they are too inflated by bad vendors.

To help you, the first thing I'd need is that you post the individual power rating of the different Volts. There should be a sticker on the PSU. Example: 12V - 45A, +5V - 30A and the like. It might also have a vendor name on it.

On PSU there are on big red letters MACRON, but on cardboardbox (where it probably came from and which now houses old 300 W PSU) reads Altis. On table are listed following:
+5V   30A
+12V  20A
-5V   0.5A
-12V  0.8A
+3.3V 14A
+5VSB 3A


quote:



There is no way to buy a PSU for a $300 grahics cards for 15 bucks ;)

Oh yes there is! It's called discount [:D]

Someone probably wants to know why did I got discount. First three years ago I said to manager of store that I'll upgrade PC some time in the future (using Athlon 64 and Radeon X900 as examples) and he guaranteed that 300 W PSU is sufficient for them. Second on another store (belongs to same chain and where PC was assembled), where I bought GeForce, they said that this 300 W PSU is sufficient for it. So there were two major screw ups by these two stores (do you seriously think that 3 year old 300 W PSU has enough watts even for equally old Radeon X800?). Normal price for this 350 W supply is somewhere between 40-50 € (I think).

Here's another problem for you to solve: refresh rate. I have 1600x1200 resolution for Windows desktop with 85 Hz refresh rate and Half-Life Opposing Force works fine on same resolution. But when I first got game running with this GeForce, I was greeted by headaching 60 Hz refresh rate. I changed from OpenGL to Direct3D and refresh rate went up to 85 Hz. Later I tried other resolutions with game and found out that unless Direct3D resolution is same as Windows, game complains something about unsupported display mode and forces software mode. No problems with OpenGL other than 60 Hz refresh rate. Quake 4 is OpenGL only (if it isn't, I have no idea how to change for D3D) and there too is 60 Hz. However demo of F.E.A.R. worked fine on 1024x768 with at least 85 Hz (now uninstalled).

There was something on Catalyst settings which made refresh rate to stay on 85 Hz or above with mentioned games and all other Windows games. If there is something similar on ForceWare settings, I haven't found it yet.



redwolf -> RE: Problem with GeForce (9/7/2006 9:08:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Matti Kuokkanen
On PSU there are on big red letters MACRON, but on cardboardbox (where it probably came from and which now houses old 300 W PSU) reads Altis.


OK, no brand name, so divide all numbers by 2. Or 3.

quote:


On table are listed following:
+5V   30A
+12V  20A
-5V   0.5A
-12V  0.8A
+3.3V 14A
+5VSB 3A



So even if you don't devide the numbers by 2 (which I am entirely sure you should), then you still only have 240 watts on the 12V. In a modern computer almost all power drawers are on the 12 V, namely CPU and VGA card. With 20A on 12V you get nowhere, and as I said it is unlikely in the extreme that your PSU can actually deliver that power on a contiguous base and at realistic temperatures. Normally the no-name vendors give power rating at 20 C which you of course cannot hold with the usual 40 C that you will get into your PSU in a cheap PC. And they give some kind of funky "burst" power rating.

quote:



Someone probably wants to know why did I got discount. First three years ago I said to manager of store that I'll upgrade PC some time in the future (using Athlon 64 and Radeon X900 as examples) and he guaranteed that 300 W PSU is sufficient for them.


You don't understand.

Buy a 300 W PSU from PC Power and Cooling or OCZ and you can power your rig. Buy a 300 Watts PSU from a no name vendor and you cannot.

Here is the absolut cheapest PSU I could recommend for that setup. 70 bucks. It doesn't get any lower.
http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?name=PS-E5150GH

Always remember that when your PSU gives up its ghost it often decides to kill it's own regulation first, which means it fries all components connected to it, including the data on your harddrive. A good PSU is a valuable investment.



Kuokkanen -> RE: Problem with GeForce (9/8/2006 8:58:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: redwolf

Always remember that when your PSU gives up its ghost it often decides to kill it's own regulation first, which means it fries all components connected to it, including the data on your harddrive.

I have stilll one month of warranty left and I have made back ups onto DVD-RAM since first HDD failure. Now onto another thing.

Some games (not all) work with 60 Hz refresh rate and I haven't found way to get refresh rate higher. I had bought Half-Life1 Anthology few weeks ago and have played Opposing Force & Blue Shift through (HL itself went through on last millennia). I got 85 Hz refresh rate with those games using Direct3D at 1600x1200 resolution (same as Windows). OpenGL and software modes give just 60 Hz and when trying other D3D resolutions game complains that those modes aren't supported. 60 Hz from Quake 4 too but Starshatter and F.E.A.R. demo work with 85 Hz on any resolutions. Any solutions for problem cases?



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