RE: RHS x.40 plan: Dec 9 (Full Version)

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el cid again -> RE: RHS x.40 plan: Dec 9 (12/9/2006 1:35:13 AM)

I am holding off another day because of the discovery ROCAF is badly wrong - and because I took the time to review 4 USMC squadrons (adding one, moving 2 ahead significantly, moving one back a few days, changing aircraft when appropriate, and causing them to have dual designations). I also have added 4 USAAF squadrons of ultra long range recon. 3 ROC air squadrons are upgrading to groups. Some others will go away or rename or be added. One will be high value in experience (US/Aussie pilots).

I will then freeze 40 level and we can plan turns. This is a deep freeze - no changes will be accepted. We have an offer to data wash one more time - so however it comes back - that will be 41 - and that we will use.

Present plan - issue 40 9 Dec 06

Some progress on Level 7 map issues - mainly Aden - but it will be a 2007 project.




m10bob -> RE: RHS x.40 plan: Dec 9 (12/9/2006 1:14:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: el cid again

I am holding off another day because of the discovery ROCAF is badly wrong - and because I took the time to review 4 USMC squadrons (adding one, moving 2 ahead significantly, moving one back a few days, changing aircraft when appropriate, and causing them to have dual designations). I also have added 4 USAAF squadrons of ultra long range recon. 3 ROC air squadrons are upgrading to groups. Some others will go away or rename or be added. One will be high value in experience (US/Aussie pilots).

I will then freeze 40 level and we can plan turns. This is a deep freeze - no changes will be accepted. We have an offer to data wash one more time - so however it comes back - that will be 41 - and that we will use.

Present plan - issue 40 9 Dec 06

Some progress on Level 7 map issues - mainly Aden - but it will be a 2007 project.




Hi Sid, Ref the "14th International squadron", IIRC, it was defunct by the time the AVG was formed. This is not the definitive site on the matter, but is interesting none the less.

http://www.warbirdforum.com/clcsino.htm


and these are from translated Japanese accounts:

http://www.warbirdforum.com/rangoon1.htm


and here is a roster of the known Flying Tiger groups!(much other info can be located on the "home" page of this site).

http://www.warbirdforum.com/roster1.htm

and finally, thiis very detailed study of hostilities in "pre-war China, (including the birth (and death) of the "14th volunteer squadron"

http://media.wiley.com/product_data/excerpt/37/04712739/0471273937-1.pdf



m10bob -> RE: RHS x.40 plan: Dec 9 (12/9/2006 1:44:20 PM)

Two of my favourite sites ref the CAF of WW2:

http://www.ww2wings.com/wings/china/chinamain.shtml




CBI air OOB's:

http://www.cbi-history.com/



el cid again -> RE: RHS 6.40 uploading (12/10/2006 1:32:42 AM)

5.40 follows plus five hours

7.40 will follow for the Madagascar Working Group

File ownership surrendered - when RHSEOS 6.41 returns I will issue Japanese turn 1 for the Tag Team.

I am working on pwhex for levels 5 and 6 - for release 10 Dec 2006 - correcting issues in China/Russia.


This folds in a number of corrections and updates from various threads and from data washing.
In particular ROCAF completely rewritten. This is a much more modern air force than WITP has before seen -
starting with P-43 and Hudsons in service - adding P-40s - including late model ones - and B-25s - as well as P-66 -
bye and bye. Recon elements and transport elements added. A high experience American/Aussie mercinary unit
added.



CobraAus -> RE: RHS 6.40 uploading (12/10/2006 1:36:04 AM)

posting will be held up from me today its 35 c and climbing to 40c + to hot to have PC on
cool change to night
cobra



m10bob -> RE: RHS 6.40 uploading (12/10/2006 12:36:50 PM)

Sid, here is a synopsis of the origin of your CAF 14th International Squadron, but as I stated in another thread, I believe it was disbanded prior to Pearl Harbor,(or denuded of the non-Chinese pilots?)

The Mercenaries: The 14th Squadron
In its early phases, the air war against Japan was fought largely by the foreign mercenary pilots of the 14th Squadron. This unit’s airmen included pilots from the United States and France with a few Australians thrown in. Several had recently served on the Republican side in Spain. Its commander was an American WW1 veteran, Vincent Schmidt, and its air gunners and ground staff were Chinese. The squadron’s equipment was equally cosmopolitan: Vultee V-11 and Northrop 2E light bombers, a couple of Martin 139 medium bombers, an armed Bellanca 28-90 racing plane, and a pair of Dewoitine D-510 fighters.

In July 1937, the Japanese invaded China proper, seizing Peking on the 28th. The 14th Squadron’s Northrops carried out some of China’s first offensive action against Japan when they bombed Japanese lines on 14 August, 1937. On the night of May 19, 1938, Chinese crews flew two of the unit’s surviving Martin bombers on a leaflet raid over Nagasaki. Western pilots also served on Hawk IIIs at Hanchow (4th Wing) and on D-510s at Kunming.

http://www.century-of-flight.net/Aviation%20history/WW2/china_force.htm


and if you will read this, you may percieve why the AVG was still a "needed commodity" even after the "14th Volunteer squadron":

http://www.warbirdforum.com/clc.htm

quote:"Though he could do little about improving China's aircraft, Chennault did experiment with hiring "fair pilots" from abroad. The mercenaries proved more formidable as boasters and boozers than they were at fighting, and the 14th Volunteer Squadron was disbanded after a few comic-opera missions. There was talk that Chennault and some of the other American instructors -- Billy McDonald especially -- also flew as mercenaries for the Chinese Air Force, earning $500 and $1,000 for each plane they shot down, but apparently it was only talk. "

and finally, thiis very detailed study of hostilities in "pre-war China, (including the birth (and death) of the "14th volunteer squadron"

http://media.wiley.com/product_data/excerpt/37/04712739/0471273937-1.pdf






Sardaukar -> RE: RHS 6.40 uploading (12/14/2006 2:24:02 PM)

One of the Soviet bases in 6.40 EOS was Australian ! [X(] Was that intentional ? I don't think so, Japan probably starts to bomb it on Turn 1 !



Bliztk -> RE: RHS 6.40 uploading (12/14/2006 2:32:40 PM)

Intentional, to allow Soviet ships to be in map at start of the game. There are problems for refueling if the base is Soviet AFAIK



Sardaukar -> RE: RHS 6.40 uploading (12/14/2006 3:21:19 PM)

I see...but doesn't AI bomb the place ? It's close to Japan anyway...



el cid again -> RE: RHS 5/6.41 upload process (12/15/2006 1:21:51 AM)

This is the pre-debugged version x.40 was supposed to be - mainly to fold in some revisions - not due to errors.
We did get some eratta fixed - however - more than usual.

This version is more or less final for standard scenarios - but EOS is undergoing a major conversion and is going to be late by a day. We are converting the start turn over to a historical plan Yamamoto decided he should have used 2 days after PH. This is complicated!

This version REQUIRES use of 1.804 WITP update. It also REQURES the updated art from Cobra. I think it is his level 7 art - in spite of his reservations about it - it looks right.

It is planned to debug this set over the weekend for a difinitive release for use next week. It is also planned to review comments on the EOS changes - if any.

A number of OB corrections have been incorporated. For example, 10th Air Force shows up about two months sooner.



el cid again -> RE: RHS 6.40 uploading (12/15/2006 1:26:56 AM)

It appears Schmidt also commanded the 10th Squadron - which is confusing - and the ROC version of the 14th history is considerably more glamorous than your materials indicate. Perhaps it was (and remains?) useful in a propaganda sense? Anyway - there are a number of detachments - including provincial air units and a personal one attached to Chiang - all represented by the "14th" in the RHS interpretation. Because of their missions - and because they are too small to be in squadons. This "unit" is 3 detachments - none able to get very big. My design intent is to say that tiny elements of ROCAF had better than horrible morale ratings before AVG shows up in strength. And players seem not to send AVG to China anyway - whereas these units start there. They are too small to change the course of the war - which of course is correct.



el cid again -> RE: RHS 6.40 uploading (12/15/2006 1:38:33 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bliztk

Intentional, to allow Soviet ships to be in map at start of the game. There are problems for refueling if the base is Soviet AFAIK


It USED to be intentional for ALL Soviet bases. x.40 was supposed to change that - and this one failed to change.

1.804 fixed the Soviet refueling problem - and in fact made it possible to put subs in Russian passive scenarios - so we changed with it. Seems Matrix does respond to what we want - and it noted interest in Soviet ships strong enough to justify changes. I am slightly surprised - but pleased.

It is fixed in x.41



el cid again -> RE: RHS 6.41 uploaded - 5 to follow (12/16/2006 7:01:55 AM)

RHSEOS 6.41 Comprehensive update uploaded about 6 hours ago. Other 6.41 scenarios are uploading now.
5.41 will follow in about 5 hours.

These are essentially debugged versions of 6.41 with some additional feedback on technical and OB issues folded in -
and conversion of EOS to a different opening operational plan (one which is, at least, exciting). I am surrendering ownership of these file sets as they are issued - and when they return we will stop updating 5 and 6 - and proceed to play - and work on 7.

Meanwhile, I will issue a revised pwhex for 5 and 6 - probably tomorrow. These will fix a few errors in China and Russia.




Dili -> RE: RHS 6.41 uploaded - 5 to follow (12/16/2006 10:51:04 PM)

Where i can read more about RHS i mean i think i dont understand the proposes of 5 and 6. Is the 6 a sort of Beta or risky version and 5 low risk version?
And what will be the propose of V7?

In short i want to play the most comon boring campaiign but that isnt plagued by problems like the ubber fighters of stock game, and with most realistic OOB and ship quality data. Not interested for now in what ifs, 6 engine bombers etc. What i should choose?

Btw i have read the RHS pdf.



Ol_Dog -> RE: RHS 6.41 uploaded - 5 to follow (12/17/2006 12:01:11 AM)

Playing against the AI, I am currently playing pry's scen 30 - which is similar to stock, CHS 2.08 and I have started every version of RHS CVO up through 5.40 as they were released, and some of the other versions. I plan to play CVO 5x. I think you will like RHS 5.

It is my impression that the map changes starting with 6 and the planned map changes for 7 may not be a substantial improvement to the play of version 5, but will add additional area to be contested. I don't think the OOB or the data base is more accurate - all versions have been corrected for errors as found.




el cid again -> RE: RHS 5.41, 6.41 and pwhex 6.41 uploaded (12/17/2006 12:14:34 AM)

This series of pwhex files is intended for use with RHS Level 6 secnarios.

pwhex is the file you normally use and start with

PANPW64 is the file you rename pwhex IF the Panama Canal is ever broken - and otherwise you never use it. It is identical except for one hex side - between Colon and Panama City - with the regular file.

RHSPW64 is the file you rename pwhex IF you ever need to "fix" the Panama Canal AFTER you "busted" it - and it is in fact pwhex in its standard RHS form - renamed so you don't lose it if you do the "break the canal" trick.

These files fix a couple of discrepencies between map art and pwhex where Russian rail lines cross the borders of Manchukuo - and near Kan Hsien in China.

They also fix a mismatched hex side pair near Pyongyang, Korea

RHS Level 6 pwhex files are NOT compatable with CHS or stock scenarios.

The pwhex file you are really using MUST BE in the top level WITP folder. Others appear only to be copies, but it may be an identical copy should reside in the SCEN folder - since it always does. To change which pwhex file you are using, simply put the one you want to use in these filders with the name pwhex.dat. If you rename PANPW64.dat as pwhex.dat, the Panama Canal becomes impassible. Since that is the normal CHS case - some may WANT to use that as their default. But note that RHS ships appearing at Colon then won't enter the Pacific!



el cid again -> RE: RHS 5.41, 6.41 and ALL pwhex uploaded (12/17/2006 12:57:08 AM)

We have completed Level 5 pwhex files to the same standard as 6. However, the set does not include a file actually called pwhex (since 6 is the present default case). IF you are playing level 5, RENAME RHSPW54.dat as pwhex.dat
and put it in the top level WITP folder.

Note that RHS Level 5 pwhex files ARE compatable with CHS extended maps. IF you like Andrew's maps, but you want to be able to use the Panama Canal, more rivers, ferries between islands, etc - you might want to use the RHS pwhex files. If you don't want the Panama Canal open (and in CHS it is not) - use PANPW54 instead of RHSPW54.



Dili -> RE: RHS 5.41, 6.41 and ALL pwhex uploaded (12/17/2006 1:56:54 AM)

Where i can get that RHSPW54.dat?



el cid again -> RE: RHS 5.41, 6.41 and ALL pwhex uploaded (12/17/2006 2:35:32 PM)

The RHS site - or from Mifune or El Cid directly.



el cid again -> RE: New RHS files & pwhex files (.41) - and EOS unofficial test files (12/17/2006 2:40:38 PM)

We are forwarding EOS location files and air group files in an unofficial x.411 test version

assigning Lexington and Enterprise to their historical locations

to generate comments.

VMSB-231 is also assigned to Lex in a way that does not overload the ship.

It is not clear if we will fold these changes into EOS or all scenarios, or none, when .42 is released?

Matrix deliberately misplaced these two TFs - and we are putting them back - based on Samuel Eliot Morison's
The Rising Sun in the Pacific (Pp 210 and 212) - at hexes 110, 74 (Enterprise) and 101,70 (Lexington).



Dili -> RE: New RHS files & pwhex files (.41) - and EOS unofficial test files (12/17/2006 11:49:50 PM)

Thanks for the update i could get the file now. Btw i opened the RHSCVO v5.41 for S050.zip in Editor  and it has the Soviets active. But in the text files it says they are inactive. Or i am seeing it wrongly?



el cid again -> RE: New RHS files & pwhex files (.41) - and EOS unofficial test files (12/18/2006 12:26:15 AM)

For reasons unclear - ALL versions of RHS have Soviets active! Two - RPO and CVO - should have Russians passive.
I am "pre issuing" x.42 cam files for these scenarios - because they are not affected by error checking - setting them to passive - and you can use them with x.41 no problem.



el cid again -> RE: Experimental EOS x.412 (Lexington Class) (12/18/2006 2:38:07 PM)

Having learned that VMF-221 was supposed to board Sara - and already having addressed VMSB-231 on Lex -
I decided to try modifying the class. We have a new air group size of 81 (vice 72) and a standard fit which combines the VB and VS squadrons into one - so there is room for a 4th squadron of Marines. If they are landed, a different navy or marine unit may board. If you pick one from a CVE it will never have a size problem. And units of 18 or 19 planes may replace the marines without overloading the ships. You now have two flavors of US CVs, - one with 4 Navy squadrons of the usual sort - and one with 3 plus room for any 4th unit - which if carrier capable can also operate. This means you can do the sorts of transfers that Lex and Sara really were doing when the war began.

Comments welcome. We may fold this into all RHS scenarios - or drop it altogether and put the Marines ashore (VMSB-231 at PH, VMF-221 at San Diego). WE decide this after x.42 returns to us - based on comments and tests.



Mifune -> RE: Experimental EOS x.412 (Lexington Class) (12/18/2006 2:55:38 PM)

I like the idea and we should test it out.



Dili -> RE: Experimental EOS x.412 (Lexington Class) (12/20/2006 12:17:23 AM)

This is cross posted from another thread where i shoudnt had posted (sorry Cobra).

Issues i found in RHSCVO 5.41 until now:

I have found 2x  89th Ind Chutai with Ki15-Babs  All are in China, the Nanchang unit is in China Exp Army and Chengting unit is in Southern Area Army. It's okay or a mistake?
There are 2 Sonia Units in N. China with Southern Command
All Armored trains (Chinese Exp Force) are in Kwantung.

Southern Area Army has many units all around are that supposed to be that way? Same with Saipan Fortress a static unit in Southeast Fleet command but in a 4th Fleet Island. 
Post Edit: Another Btw... any reason all cities around Tientsing are classed Central China instead of North China?
Post Edit2: There are 2x F3 Tainan Chutai - It's missing the F2

Kageros, Shimakaze and Yugumos have 5"/40 Tp89 DP gun. That is wrong.  5"/50 3YT is the right one.
There are 2 CA Tone in update list. CA Tone have 1 gun per 25mm mount. In reality they had double mounts.
PC Lepanto has only 4 amno for central 25mm and 84 for rear 25mm.



el cid again -> RE: Experimental EOS x.412 (Lexington Class) (12/20/2006 7:20:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dili

This is cross posted from another thread where i shoudnt had posted (sorry Cobra).

Issues i found in RHSCVO 5.41 until now:

I have found 2x  89th Ind Chutai with Ki15-Babs  All are in China, the Nanchang unit is in China Exp Army and Chengting unit is in Southern Area Army. It's okay or a mistake?

REPLY: Need to check. One may be a detachment of the other.

EDIT: Listed by Francillon with Ki-51, it is in Bloody Shambles with Ki-36, and it has migrated in both forms into WITP!
Clearly it was a unit that upgraded IRL. Slot 31 is right - except it does not upgrade. Slot 102 should be 44th Independent Chutai - also on Ki-36. And the pools for Ki-36 and Ki-51 are off by 12 - in opposite directions.

There are 2 Sonia Units in N. China with Southern Command
All Armored trains (Chinese Exp Force) are in Kwantung.

REPLY: This is because the units are transferred in command but not yet moved. There are more like that.

Southern Area Army has many units all around are that supposed to be that way? Same with Saipan Fortress a static unit in Southeast Fleet command but in a 4th Fleet Island. 

REPLY: The Southern Area Army indeed has lots of units in other command locations. It means they should be moved there. But while I changed Saipan - I failed to change the static unit there.


Post Edit: Another Btw... any reason all cities around Tientsing are classed Central China instead of North China? \\

REPLY: Because of their map location. To help players find them. North is translated as "up" even though - in fact - it really isn't on the left side ("North" is "right" over there). It appears to be central China.

Post Edit2: There are 2x F3 Tainan Chutai - It's missing the F2


REPLY: Does not sound right.
Kageros, Shimakaze and Yugumos have 5"/40 Tp89 DP gun. That is wrong.  5"/50 3YT is the right one.

REPLY: Re elected to mount a different weapon in EOS. Actually - many of these vessels converted during the war to one mounting of each type ! And some to two DP mountings.

There are 2 CA Tone in update list. CA Tone have 1 gun per 25mm mount. In reality they had double mounts.
PC Lepanto has only 4 amno for central 25mm and 84 for rear 25mm.

25 mm normally should have 36 shots. But Lepanto is small - probably 24.





Dili -> RE: Experimental EOS x.412 (Lexington Class) (12/20/2006 8:11:09 PM)

quote:

REPLY: This is because the units are transferred in command but not yet moved. There are more like that.


Okay i will research the units history before came up with issues; except those static ones and duplicates.

quote:

REPLY: Because of their map location. To help players find them. North is translated as "up" even though - in fact - it really isn't on the left side ("North" is "right" over there). It appears to be central China.


Okay the whole projection troubles. It seems odd since Peking is "up" Tientsing and distance between both are not that big unless the North is real 90º right in there.



Dili -> RE: Experimental EOS x.412 (Lexington Class) (12/20/2006 8:23:04 PM)

Beijing Latitude: 39.92889

Tientsin Latitude: 38.95 

So indeed Beijing is North of Tientsin



Dili -> RE: Experimental EOS x.412 (Lexington Class) (12/20/2006 9:44:00 PM)

IJA Formosa Army HQ in Taihoku(Formosa) is attached to Kwantung Area Army. I am not aware of any Formosan Army HQ in Kwantung.

Taan Naval Base Fortress in Taan(Hainan) is a China Exp Unit static unit in a Southern Area Base

Ponape Base Force is a Southeast Fleet Unit in a 4 Fleet Base

IJN Jaluit Naval Stn Bn is Southeast Fleet Unit in a 4 Fleet Base

Truk is a 4th Fleet Base with a collection of Southeast Fleet Units including a static unit.

Palau Coastal Gun Rgt is a Southeast Unit in a Southern Army Base. It is not static but it is a unit that will seldom move if at all. The Palau Base Fortress is static and also part of Southeast Fleet.

10th Sentai a Ki-32 Army Unit in Home Command upgrades to a Navy D3A2 Val



el cid again -> RE: Experimental EOS x.412 (Lexington Class) (12/20/2006 11:54:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dili

IJA Formosa Army HQ in Taihoku(Formosa) is attached to Kwantung Area Army. I am not aware of any Formosan Army HQ in Kwantung.

REPLY: THis should be Southern Area Army. It is a real HQ - made by copying - and the command was not changed.

Taan Naval Base Fortress in Taan(Hainan) is a China Exp Unit static unit in a Southern Area Base

REPLY: A bit confusing - apparently this is inherited - and it might be assigned either command. But - not in the game - this is the actual HQ of Southern Area Army! Thanks.

Ponape Base Force is a Southeast Fleet Unit in a 4 Fleet Base

REPLY: Yes - I cought that after seeing your notes about another such unit. Found several. I changed the base to 4th fleet but not the units present.

IJN Jaluit Naval Stn Bn is Southeast Fleet Unit in a 4 Fleet Base

Truk is a 4th Fleet Base with a collection of Southeast Fleet Units including a static unit.

REPLY: This is correct. Southeast Fleet bases here - because it is areas SOUTH of Truk not yet Japanese!

Palau Coastal Gun Rgt is a Southeast Unit in a Southern Army Base. It is not static but it is a unit that will seldom move if at all. The Palau Base Fortress is static and also part of Southeast Fleet.

REPLY: This is very difficult. It is an important part of S Area Army at start - but actually 4th Fleet - and at one time I thought 4th Fleet was under Southeast Fleet - when it is the other way around. Should be SAA - but note that this unit should NEVER be moved. Any such move is gamey. IJN would never move it from that base - unless a bigger and badder CD unit replaced it. It was the site of a major (and needless) battle late in the war.

10th Sentai a Ki-32 Army Unit in Home Command upgrades to a Navy D3A2 Val


REPLY: This is only in EOS - because the Army decided to go that way. Other units upgrade to Kates - or two engine bombers. Ki-32/30 is going to go away ASAP. But not always to Army type bombers.



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