MWiF Map Review - Africa (Full Version)

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Froonp -> MWiF Map Review - Africa (9/6/2006 6:41:43 PM)

All the areas where fighting has big chances of occuring have been reviewed in these forums already.
But the game cover the whole world, so the rest of the world can also be reviewed, and I propose to begin with Africa, as it is adjacent to the European map, and it is probable that some action will take place here.

I begin with the east part of it.
Here is Egypt, the Red Sea up to Aden and Eritrea.

I'm posting this for review, as the coastlines have big chances of being inspired from these. If you see things blatantly wrong, please tell it and if it is possible to improve it we will do it.

[image]local://upfiles/10447/2719413E8D4341C2B1ED2DEC0FDF92C3.jpg[/image]



Froonp -> RE: MWiF Map Review - Africa (9/6/2006 6:43:02 PM)

Just a note to add that the Quatara depression will have better graphics, those are unfinished.
Also, the rivers will be drawn and not hex lines.



Froonp -> RE: MWiF Map Review - Africa (9/6/2006 6:46:01 PM)

Immediately south of the last area I posted, here is Italian East Africa with the surrounding CW Minor Countries.
The big lake in the center is Lake Victoria. Nearly all Lakes are named on the map, but they do not appear here before they were named after the screenshot upon which this drawing is based.

[image]local://upfiles/10447/CA1C2353A997479AAFFDB67B866B7C42.jpg[/image]



stretch -> RE: MWiF Map Review - Africa (9/6/2006 7:43:21 PM)

at first I thought the border around Ethiopia didn't go all the way around the west side.  But I looked at the map on my machine (beta) and it is indeed there, it just didn't make the transition very well.  Thought I'd get that info out there in case anyone thinks its a map problem.




Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: MWiF Map Review - Africa (9/6/2006 7:50:49 PM)

Here is the Qattara Depression graphics I haven't added in yet. I guess I'll do that in the next couple of days.

[image]local://upfiles/16701/C0DB0F8D6E4345F288C87A42EE72A10B.jpg[/image]



Froonp -> RE: MWiF Map Review - Africa (9/6/2006 7:54:21 PM)

South of the previous map, here is South East Africa, with Madagascar and the Sea Area around it.

For Ethiopia, I forgot to re-draw the border (for the drawing only, on the game's map it is already good) so that it was better seen.

[image]local://upfiles/10447/93F328AD6E3E47918BB6549B6CE4E6B2.jpg[/image]



Froonp -> RE: MWiF Map Review - Africa (9/6/2006 7:55:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
Here is the Qattara Depression graphics I haven't added in yet. I guess I'll do that in the next couple of days.

Great, I love it !



Froonp -> RE: MWiF Map Review - Africa (9/6/2006 7:57:08 PM)

Here is southern Africa.


[image]local://upfiles/10447/17E990523C484620B0591D952B25B374.jpg[/image]



Froonp -> RE: MWiF Map Review - Africa (9/6/2006 10:59:57 PM)

Next part of Africa, Central West Africa.

[image]local://upfiles/10447/722AE92F418B4A31B44290ECE3127E30.jpg[/image]



Froonp -> RE: MWiF Map Review - Africa (9/6/2006 11:13:39 PM)

Next part of the Africa map. The big Lake on the Northwest is Lake Chad, in the Chad. The northern unammed desert is southern Algeria.

[image]local://upfiles/10447/D7A03B9F4C3C4C3081848A8DB0E0858F.jpg[/image]



Froonp -> RE: MWiF Map Review - Africa (9/6/2006 11:23:28 PM)

Next, and maybe last map to show you Africa as it should be in MWiF.

Note : Those maps are made from edited game map screenshots taken at the 100% zoom, and then rescaled down at 45% size to cope with the 200 kb limit of the Matrix Forums. So the real maps should be 4 times bigger at least !!!

It also show Canary Islands, and Cape Verde Islands which are not present in WiF FE.

[image]local://upfiles/10447/4521FB57F7814108B63D9F81E3AC3796.jpg[/image]



Froonp -> RE: MWiF Map Review - Africa (9/6/2006 11:29:12 PM)

Here is another, showing the North Africa countries already represented on WiF FE European maps, with their extension to the south. The Yellow Line shows where the WiF FE European maps end.

[image]local://upfiles/10447/CF1D0C64A80B4EE6881734F5F37C266E.jpg[/image]



Froonp -> RE: MWiF Map Review - Africa (9/6/2006 11:34:12 PM)

Here's the real last for Africa, going back to Egypt, with Steve's Quattara Depression graphic that I tried to include.

[image]local://upfiles/10447/BD59873B415B4210B05EE4888E34EF87.jpg[/image]



Froonp -> RE: MWiF Map Review - Africa (9/6/2006 11:47:23 PM)

If you assemble the 9 parts I posted, you see Africa entirely. Funny that my cuttings of the map missed 1 hex in the middle of it. [:D]

[image]local://upfiles/10447/75B4F2A31E6442D9ABFD4F109EC09D62.jpg[/image]



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: MWiF Map Review - Africa (9/7/2006 1:19:07 AM)

Lovely.



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: MWiF Map Review - Africa (9/7/2006 2:47:22 AM)

I put ni the bitmap for the Qattara Depression. Here is what it looks like - finished version.

[image]local://upfiles/16701/366163196FA24C45BEA047D7CB1820D2.jpg[/image]



Missouri_Rebel -> RE: MWiF Map Review - Africa (9/7/2006 3:32:04 AM)

What is that island on the east coast doing there. Madagascar? I'm pretty sure that you made that up and it is not a real island. Any other suprises?




Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: MWiF Map Review - Africa (9/7/2006 5:04:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Missouri_Rebel
What is that island on the east coast doing there. Madagascar? I'm pretty sure that you made that up and it is not a real island. Any other suprises?


I have never visited it myself, and the name lends itself to puns (mad at oscar), but it is a fine island that has many unique flora and fauna. The ports there can be quite important at times during game play.



Missouri_Rebel -> RE: MWiF Map Review - Africa (9/7/2006 5:21:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets


I have never visited it myself, and the name lends itself to puns (mad at oscar), but it is a fine island that has many unique flora and fauna. The ports there can be quite important at times during game play.


My appologies to anyone from Madagascar. I am sure it is a fine place and the locals probably refer to Africa as the island off their coast if I know them like I think I do, which I don't. [:D]

BTW...looks great and it is making the wait that much harder.

Mo Reb



Neilster -> RE: MWiF Map Review - Africa (9/7/2006 4:53:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Missouri_Rebel

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets


I have never visited it myself, and the name lends itself to puns (mad at oscar), but it is a fine island that has many unique flora and fauna. The ports there can be quite important at times during game play.


My appologies to anyone from Madagascar. I am sure it is a fine place and the locals probably refer to Africa as the island off their coast if I know them like I think I do, which I don't. [:D]

BTW...looks great and it is making the wait that much harder.

Mo Reb


Madagascar was important....Operation Ironclad.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Madagascar

Cheers, Neilster




Mziln -> RE: MWiF Map Review - Africa (9/7/2006 8:24:51 PM)

The name "Qattara Depression" should be in the depression not above it like most maps.



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: MWiF Map Review - Africa (9/7/2006 8:28:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mziln

The name "Qattara Depression" should be in the depression not above it like most maps.

Yes.

I was waiting for the addition of the bitmap images before relocating the name. That can be done now.

[Patrice, I think a simple black or white font would look best - no need for the purple.]



wfzimmerman -> RE: MWiF Map Review - Africa (9/7/2006 8:30:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mziln

The name "Qattara Depression" should be in the depression not above it like most maps.


Why? C'mon. Is there a rule that lake-like bodies of land should contain their labels? ;-)

It ain't easy putting labels on maps. ArcGIS has an incredibly complicated feature set that still doesn't do a very good job.

Actually, when I saw the (nice) Qattara graphics, and esp. the perimeter hexes which are half-desert half depression, the first thing I wondered is why I can't move half of my corps through the half of the hex that is not covered by dark brown.



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: MWiF Map Review - Africa (9/7/2006 10:48:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: wfzimmerman
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mziln

The name "Qattara Depression" should be in the depression not above it like most maps.


Why? C'mon. Is there a rule that lake-like bodies of land should contain their labels? ;-)

It ain't easy putting labels on maps. ArcGIS has an incredibly complicated feature set that still doesn't do a very good job.

Actually, when I saw the (nice) Qattara graphics, and esp. the perimeter hexes which are half-desert half depression, the first thing I wondered is why I can't move half of my corps through the half of the hex that is not covered by dark brown.


When moving along escrapments, the troops would tie themselves to each other with the sad results that as soon as one soldier fell into the depression, the whole corps would follow. Very depressing - hence the name.



Froonp -> RE: MWiF Map Review - Africa (9/7/2006 11:38:16 PM)

quote:

I was waiting for the addition of the bitmap images before relocating the name. That can be done now.

[Patrice, I think a simple black or white font would look best - no need for the purple.]

About the color, I wanted to have each type of label being the same font size & color.
Terrain features (there are very few of them on the map) are defined for the moment as being color 5, size 10.

Why not redefine in the program the fact that color 5 is violet ? Why not orange ? There is nothing orange on the map, so it would show. If you do not want, I'll simply change the color code of this text, but then all "terrain feature labels" won't be all the same anymore.



Mziln -> RE: MWiF Map Review - Africa (9/8/2006 12:18:49 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: wfzimmerman

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mziln

The name "Qattara Depression" should be in the depression not above it like most maps.


Why? C'mon. Is there a rule that lake-like bodies of land should contain their labels? ;-)

It ain't easy putting labels on maps. ArcGIS has an incredibly complicated feature set that still doesn't do a very good job.

Actually, when I saw the (nice) Qattara graphics, and esp. the perimeter hexes which are half-desert half depression, the first thing I wondered is why I can't move half of my corps through the half of the hex that is not covered by dark brown.


http://www.fgdc.gov/standards/projects/FGDC-standards-projects/accuracy/part3/chapter3



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: MWiF Map Review - Africa (9/8/2006 12:32:31 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp
quote:

I was waiting for the addition of the bitmap images before relocating the name. That can be done now.

[Patrice, I think a simple black or white font would look best - no need for the purple.]

About the color, I wanted to have each type of label being the same font size & color.
Terrain features (there are very few of them on the map) are defined for the moment as being color 5, size 10.

Why not redefine in the program the fact that color 5 is violet ? Why not orange ? There is nothing orange on the map, so it would show. If you do not want, I'll simply change the color code of this text, but then all "terrain feature labels" won't be all the same anymore.


The colors for the labels are taken from the 16 StandardColors in WinUtil.pas. I can easily change these and eventually I expect to make it available for the the player to change (i.e., it will be in a data file). Here are the current colors - note the numbering starts with zero.

StandardColors: array[0..15] of TColor = (clBlack, clMaroon, clGreen, clOlive, clNavy, clPurple, clTeal, clSilver, clGray, clRed, clLime, clYellow, clBlue, clFuchsia, clAqua, clWhite);

So, if you give the Qattara Depression label the color code of 15, it will be white; 0 would be black.



Peter Stauffenberg -> RE: MWiF Map Review - Africa (10/2/2006 12:31:55 PM)

quote:

[image]local://upfiles/10447/17E990523C484620B0591D952B25B374.jpg[/image]


I just noticed we may have forgotten to place the large South African city of Johannesburg on the map.

Today it has a population of 3.200.000 so I guess it definitely had more than 100.000 in 1940. So I guess we just forgot to add it. Johannesburg is supposed to be in the hex 1xSW of Pretoria. The dot should be along the rail line in the NE section of the hex.

I know some people would think it could have been integrated with Pretoria, but it's the same as with Minneapolis / St. Paul that are two separate cities on the MWIF map. Many cities in Europe are in adjacent hexes instead of being integrated. So I feel it's strange to integrate a 3 million city (7 million with suburbs) of Johannesburg into the nearby smaller city of Pretoria (although it's the capital). So I think at the MWIF scale it's better to have both Pretoria and Johannesburg. What do you think?





Froonp -> RE: MWiF Map Review - Africa (10/2/2006 1:35:34 PM)

quote:

I just noticed we may have forgotten to place the large South African city of Johannesburg on the map.

Today it has a population of 3.200.000 so I guess it definitely had more than 100.000 in 1940. So I guess we just forgot to add it. Johannesburg is supposed to be in the hex 1xSW of Pretoria. The dot should be along the rail line in the NE section of the hex.

I know some people would think it could have been integrated with Pretoria, but it's the same as with Minneapolis / St. Paul that are two separate cities on the MWIF map. Many cities in Europe are in adjacent hexes instead of being integrated. So I feel it's strange to integrate a 3 million city (7 million with suburbs) of Johannesburg into the nearby smaller city of Pretoria (although it's the capital). So I think at the MWIF scale it's better to have both Pretoria and Johannesburg. What do you think?

I looked at Google Earth and saw that Pretoria and Johannesburg are 48 km far away (from dot to dot, so indeed you go from one to the next in less than that).
For me it is not the same as Minneapolis / St. Paul, because those cities are separated by a major River, so it have a sense to make both appear on the map. It is to say : There is a city on each bank of the River.
Here there can only be 1 city per hex, so IMO adding Johannesburg is not warranted, because it is too near from Pretoria, and it is Pretoria the capital.
IMO, adding cities to scaled down areas that were depicted at Pacific Scale in WiF FE should only be done to restore in MWiF a functionnal aspect that existed in WiF FE, that can be supply status, defense status, city-dense status, things like that.



Peter Stauffenberg -> RE: MWiF Map Review - Africa (10/2/2006 2:14:47 PM)

That is ok, but why not call the MWIF city Pretoria / Johannesburg to indicate the hex contains both cities.

The presence of a river (distinction between major and minor rivers doesn't exist in WIF) between Minneapolis and St. Paul doesn't warrant 2 separate cities ihmo. This is not an area where combat will take place. I often see on the internet people speak of Minneapolis /St. Paul as if they were connected and one great city. The same applies to Johannesburg / Pretoria. For me it's strange that one of the biggest cities in Africa isn't mentioned on the map at all. In Europe we have cities separated that are really close together.

According to the railway it's 54 km between Pretoria and Johannesburg. A similar example in Europe is the distance between Brussels and Antwerp that is 46 km. These two cities are 2 distinct cities in MWIF. Probably because Antwerp is a well known major port and the capital Brussels in no coastal city. I guess we can find several examples that the MWIF map has cities in adjacent hexes that are as close together as 50-60 km. For me it's strange that a 3 million (7 million with suburbs) city is not placed on the MWIF map that has European scale level everywhere. It's a pretty big city to omit. But I can easily live with the hex being called Pretoria / Johannesburg if creating 2 distinct cities is not wanted. Then at least Johannesburg is not forgotten.



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