RE: another run on BoB (Full Version)

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Hard Sarge -> RE: another run on BoB (9/25/2006 7:31:24 PM)

and (oh, never mind, they are not really here, I just using them)



[image]local://upfiles/1438/ED8653D254C14BABA408C579ACA66799.jpg[/image]



otisabuser2 -> RE: another run on BoB (9/25/2006 9:09:19 PM)

I thought the G50 should have a shorter range the the Bf109 ?

The reason that the Italians used the Cr42 biplane over the UK may have been that it could fly further than the G50.

...though I've just realised that you have "escort" and "real" radius, where the real looks OK. Strange.



Hard Sarge -> RE: another run on BoB (9/25/2006 9:21:42 PM)

I showing 420 to 620 for the G.50

the CR.42 shows 488 and 630

now, assumeing the 2nd rate is slow cruise for the 50 and the 2nd for the 42 is with drop tanks



Denniss -> RE: another run on BoB (9/26/2006 12:55:41 PM)

Some small errors again :
1) Italian planes use a 12.7 mm Breda-SAFAT gun, in short usually only called SAFAT (and not SAFA).
2) Please use MG FF and not MG-FF, starting with Bf 109 E-4 they used the MG FF/M (more explosive load with the HE mine shot, slightly higher RoF (540 instead of 520) and much higher muzle velocity (700 m/sec instead of ~585). Projectile had a reduced weight thus degrading speed somewhat faster. I'm not that sure since when the Bf 110 used this gun but I think the C-3/C-4 already got it.



Hard Sarge -> RE: another run on BoB (9/26/2006 10:07:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Denniss

Some small errors again :
1) Italian planes use a 12.7 mm Breda-SAFAT gun, in short usually only called SAFAT (and not SAFA).

Typo on my part, my bad, corrected to SAFAT, also the 7.7mm

2) Please use MG FF and not MG-FF, starting with Bf 109 E-4 they used the MG FF/M (more explosive load with the HE mine shot, slightly higher RoF (540 instead of 520) and much higher muzle velocity (700 m/sec instead of ~585). Projectile had a reduced weight thus degrading speed somewhat faster. I'm not that sure since when the Bf 110 used this gun but I think the C-3/C-4 already got it.

changed MG-FF to MG FF

the MG FF/M is in ? but think I used a lower case m, have changed to upper case, I see other docs also using it as upper case now

if you can find when it was issued, used by the 110s I will add it to them, right now, I only have it on the 110C-4/B and 110D





BigDuke66 -> RE: another run on BoB (9/26/2006 10:24:18 PM)

@Hard Sarge
Maybe a bit troublesomely but how about posting all the plane screens so the othere "gurus" can check them out and correct some minor things(spelling etc.)



Hard Sarge -> RE: another run on BoB (9/26/2006 10:47:41 PM)

:P

one hassle is they are still changeing (which is where some of the errors kick in)

but, will try and post up a list when I can, I am in the middle of some other work right now





BigDuke66 -> RE: another run on BoB (9/26/2006 10:53:32 PM)

Cool

Maybe I wrong but didn't we have almost all original planes and plane versions in the original Bob?
All Italians missed of course.

So do we see a new plane or a new version of a plane beside the Italian planes?



Hard Sarge -> RE: another run on BoB (9/26/2006 11:28:17 PM)

not sure I follow your question, but will post this in case I do follow your meaning

(long day and all)

and as in all, this can and may and will change

some planes are waiting to see how they would work, if added




[image]local://upfiles/1438/78183B8F702F4099A95E691D30CF93E8.jpg[/image]



Hard Sarge -> RE: another run on BoB (9/26/2006 11:29:04 PM)

ahhh, guess you would some of the other ones too then :)





Hard Sarge -> RE: another run on BoB (9/26/2006 11:30:19 PM)

the GB from BoB 40

might help if I post the picture, and yes, I see the c



[image]local://upfiles/1438/525929586B9C45C9BEBE3BCE258209E2.jpg[/image]



Hard Sarge -> RE: another run on BoB (9/26/2006 11:32:20 PM)

Odd, were did the armor come from ?

must be another one of the moveing glitches



otisabuser2 -> RE: another run on BoB (9/26/2006 11:34:27 PM)

No Blen IVF ?



Hard Sarge -> RE: another run on BoB (9/26/2006 11:39:27 PM)

well, I did say it is not finished yet :)

besides, not all mistakes are mistakes :)

this one is still more a work in process then the others, still waiting on more info before addin other models to the GB OOB





[image]local://upfiles/1438/74EC5BCC298F4CB88C310E0C98D7F0D8.jpg[/image]



Hard Sarge -> RE: another run on BoB (9/26/2006 11:46:04 PM)

please remember, 41 BoB is even more of a ruff draft then 40 or BTR

won't take long to correct or bring up to speed, just want to get 40 set right, before getting into Detail in 41

I also think some of the plane stats will show up different between the two verison, I am working on 40 right now, to get what I want from it, before porting the stats over to 41

[image]local://upfiles/1438/14B42B1856E04348924DBCE235885C2D.jpg[/image]



Hard Sarge -> RE: another run on BoB (9/27/2006 12:15:40 AM)

for the Early 190's, I picking up that they were slower then the later models, I get from around 366 to 380

(they still had hassles with the A1, but even the A1 was stated to be faster then the Spit V, so went with the 380)

it is also a very late add on to the campaign and will not be a major player, nor will the MC 202





BigDuke66 -> RE: another run on BoB (9/27/2006 1:58:34 AM)

So new planes for BoB are:
Bf 109 E-1
Bf 109 E-4
Bf 110 C-4
Fw 200 C-1
Fw 190 A-1
All Italian Planes

Hurrican II A
Sea Gladiator
Fulmar
Martlet MK I

I just compared them to the planes in the old manual and I miss some of the old planes.
Where is the Spitfire IB, the Whirlwind and the Havoc I?
And where are the Ju 88 A-4, Fw 190 A-2 and the Do 217 E-2?

BTW will we see new loadouts for the bombers?



Hard Sarge -> RE: another run on BoB (9/27/2006 2:31:55 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BigDuke66

So new planes for BoB are:
Bf 109 E-1
Bf 109 E-4
Bf 110 C-4
Fw 200 C-1
Fw 190 A-1
All Italian Planes

Hurrican II A
Sea Gladiator
Fulmar
Martlet MK I

I just compared them to the planes in the old manual and I miss some of the old planes.
Where is the Spitfire IB, the Whirlwind and the Havoc I?
And where are the Ju 88 A-4, Fw 190 A-2 and the Do 217 E-2?

BTW will we see new loadouts for the bombers?


Whirlwind and Havoc just not added in yet for 41, plus looking at how to add some of the lend-lease planes

I believe off hand that 19 Squadron has the IB, it was going to be too small a run to have it produced, so just gave it to one squadron which flew with it, in fact it is better then the old one

the A-2 is not made yet, the A-1 is really pushing it (for the 41 campaign)

A-4 ? I need to go over my notes as to why we used the A-5 name, it looks to have the A-4 stats

if you have some info on the 217 E as far as time line, let me see it, most of my info on the bomber was for 42 (it was around earlier but in small numbers and even then, was not a major build, when it was built as main model)

if it was around and in any numbers, I can add it

and if any other planes that "should" be added that were around in this time line, I will look at

Yes, bomb loads have been redone, the Stuka was way over loaded

and to be honest, over all, all planes are really new for the game, they have all been reworked,in some form or other

what 110 was in the first game ?




BigDuke66 -> RE: another run on BoB (9/27/2006 3:06:40 AM)

110?
Just the
Bf 110 C
Bf 110 C-4B
Bf 110 C-5
Bf 110 D-1/R2



BigDuke66 -> RE: another run on BoB (9/27/2006 3:20:26 AM)

For now I can only find this for Production:
Do-217
1939 1
1940 20
1941 277
1942 564
1943 504
1944 -
1945 -
Total 1366

So I guess it could be in for 1941, question is what version?
I see if I can find more.



Francis Drake -> RE: another run on BoB (9/27/2006 1:10:46 PM)

from "Die deutsche Luftrüstung 1933-1945"

Do 217

Do 217 A-1 (Recon)
8 Planes

Do 217 C (Bomber)
5 Planes (for Testing Engine)

Do 217 E-1 (Bomber/Recon)
100 Planes (+Do 217 E-3)

Do 217 E-2 (Bomber)
? Planes

Do 217 E-3 (Sea Bomber)
change from Do 217 E-1

Do 217 E-5 (Bomber)
same as Do 217 E-2 + Rüstsatz 10 ( HS293)
65 Planes


Build

1939 1 Plane
1940 40 Planes
1941 277 Planes

till 1943 build 1730 Planes (364 nigthfigthers and Destroyers)


I hope i can help!



otisabuser2 -> RE: another run on BoB (9/27/2006 1:31:37 PM)

Mentioned before, and worthy of inclusion in 1940 is the Ju87R, the longer ranged Stuka.



Denniss -> RE: another run on BoB (9/27/2006 1:51:47 PM)

I never heard of the germans using the Ju 87R in BoB, it was mostly used in an anti-shipping role in the med.
The Ju 88 A-5 was produced earlier thant the A-4, The A-4 got increased wingspan and some 500 kg more bomb load.
Some things I don't like: Bf 109 E-4/B and 110 C-4/B with large loss of mvr, they are intended to drop their bomb(s) if attacked. With bomb(s) dropped they are just plain E-4/C-4. AFAIK they usd the same ETC bomb carrier the planes used to mount the drop tank.
The recon stats in the '40 scenario looks like you upped the cruise speed to nearly max speed (as was previously done in BTR) but the endurance may need some mods to have them not exceed their normal range. (Similar to BTR especially with drop tanks and their normal endurance add-on)



Hard Sarge -> RE: another run on BoB (9/27/2006 2:55:20 PM)

for the 88, I got the A-4 modeled, but named the A-5, so no hassle there

let me looking into the B models, I thought I remembered there was something else about them that made them different then standard models, besides the bomb rack

Yes on the Recon, with out the higher Cruise speed, they get slaughtered, but I will check into the ranges, but not sure if that should be a major factor, since they are not carrying a bomb load and or other normal gear that a bomber or fighter model of the same type would have, they would have longer range with the same fuel load

like the Ju 88 A has a max range of 1696, while the Recon model, the Ju 88 D had a max range of 2980

(which of course, like a lot of other stats, max range is really useless, but it is a guide)

plus, I think you will see in the first bob shot, that most of the Recon models also have different fuel loads

for the 217 E

I show around 200 of the E-0/1/2 built, 100 of the E-3 and around 500 of the E-4

so, I think we can add about 1 KG worth of 217s to the mix, with some building in the background for losses





langley -> RE: another run on BoB (9/27/2006 3:10:52 PM)

I am happy to see that the Fleet air arm shows up in this Game (at least BOB). How about the Coastal Command do we get to See a couple of Blenheim IVf fighter squadrons?
While I'm at it are you able to transfer Pilots between Squadrons and can you Transfer squadrons from one command to another?

Thanks

MJT



langley -> RE: another run on BoB (9/27/2006 3:16:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

quote:

ORIGINAL: BigDuke66

So new planes for BoB are:
Bf 109 E-1
Bf 109 E-4
Bf 110 C-4
Fw 200 C-1
Fw 190 A-1
All Italian Planes

Hurrican II A
Sea Gladiator
Fulmar
Martlet MK I

I just compared them to the planes in the old manual and I miss some of the old planes.
Where is the Spitfire IB, the Whirlwind and the Havoc I?
And where are the Ju 88 A-4, Fw 190 A-2 and the Do 217 E-2?

BTW will we see new loadouts for the bombers?


Whirlwind and Havoc just not added in yet for 41, plus looking at how to add some of the lend-lease planes

I believe off hand that 19 Squadron has the IB, it was going to be too small a run to have it produced, so just gave it to one squadron which flew with it, in fact it is better then the old one

the A-2 is not made yet, the A-1 is really pushing it (for the 41 campaign)

A-4 ? I need to go over my notes as to why we used the A-5 name, it looks to have the A-4 stats

if you have some info on the 217 E as far as time line, let me see it, most of my info on the bomber was for 42 (it was around earlier but in small numbers and even then, was not a major build, when it was built as main model)

if it was around and in any numbers, I can add it

and if any other planes that "should" be added that were around in this time line, I will look at

Yes, bomb loads have been redone, the Stuka was way over loaded

and to be honest, over all, all planes are really new for the game, they have all been reworked,in some form or other

what 110 was in the first game ?



Are you going to add the Airacobra Mk1 and How about the Tomahawk Mk1 in 1941?

MJT



Hard Sarge -> RE: another run on BoB (9/27/2006 3:43:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: langley

I am happy to see that the Fleet air arm shows up in this Game (at least BOB). How about the Coastal Command do we get to See a couple of Blenheim IVf fighter squadrons?
While I'm at it are you able to transfer Pilots between Squadrons and can you Transfer squadrons from one command to another?

Thanks

MJT


yea, we trying to get some of the Fleet to show up (I wanted to get the Roc's in, everybody else is yelling at me)

not sure about CC and fighters yet, open to debate

No pilots are not able to be transfered
Squadrons in BoB can go between the Groups, BTR is shakyer, and does not look like it right now, Ideas bounceing around on maybe doing it with increased cost or other ideas, but that is in the works/thinking stage

for the P-40 that is what I am working on, what Squadrons would or could of been flying it

part of the background is that something went wrong in the Med and either a Stalemate or pull back has happened, which allows the IT to reinforce the GE, but also means a number of CW Desert squadrons are not in the desert (which to be fair, is not so "far" fetched, the big battle that knocked the IT out of the desert, a sand storm did come up and did interfer with the gas and supply units looking for the Armored group, which they did hook up and the battle went on as history knows, but what if that Armored group had got stuck for lack of fuel, the whole war in the MED would of be different)

(dream on, but that is my story)

I thought the P-39 was only tested and not liked by the GB ?

I am open to debate on almost any models ????





Hard Sarge -> RE: another run on BoB (9/27/2006 3:49:50 PM)

okay for right now

the Do 217E-2 has been added to BoB41 (monster, 1 KG worth)

the Ju 88A-4 is in both BoB and BoB41 (it got mislabelled, my notes have all the stats for the A-4. not the A-5)

the Ju 87D-1 replaces the Ju 87B (better range, weapons and bombload, almost better speed, I mean come on, it is a stuka)

(just in case, for what it is worth, the Ju 188 comes in too late for BoB41)





Terminus -> RE: another run on BoB (9/27/2006 7:09:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

I thought the P-39 was only tested and not liked by the GB ?



Actually, the RAF used the Airacobra Mk I (with 601 squadron) operationally from Duxford, from August to December 1941, when 601 converted to Spitfires. I could only find info on one raid to France, on 9th October, where the squadron took the aircraft into battle.



otisabuser2 -> RE: another run on BoB (9/27/2006 8:07:35 PM)

I have two sources stating that both I StG/1 and II StG/2 had Ju87R during BoB. Do not know if this was a complete outfitting with this type.

During BoB, the RAF were supplied with Buffalo, Martlett, Mohawk and one Tomahawk from the US.



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