RE: Slightly OT: Last of the Nimitz class CVs Christened (Full Version)

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wdolson -> RE: Slightly OT: Last of the Nimitz class CVs Christened (10/8/2006 9:16:02 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

I just think ships named after people should be limited to the deceased. Otherwise it just seems too.... political or something. And whatever happened to naming destroyers and like sized warships after people and leaving the larger ships to be named in a grander fashion? Why are all the capitol ships being named after some damp skinned and limp wristed politician when names like Monitor are overlooked and smaller warships are named after the major battles in American history? I lean towards some sort of pattern or precedent for naming ships. Lately there is no rhyme or reason aside from naming ships after politicians...hardly heroes in my book.

Agreed on the Big E.[&o]


I agree. I never liked CVs named after people. However, if the Navy is going to name them after people, they should name them after people who are long dead and the book on their life history is mostly closed. Lincoln, Washington, and even TR Roosevelt and Kennedy were presidents who had a great impact. The footprint of Bush I is still unknown, but I suspect that historically he's going seen to be a chair warmer between two much more memorable presidents. In another 25 years, Bush I will probably be about as memorable to most Americans are many of the 19th century presidents.

Personally, I have not been impressed with either Bush. Bush I was at least competent, but I always felt the invasion of Panama was flat out illegal. As for GW... If I start, I won't be able to stop.

BTW, according to this site: http://www.ne.jp/asahi/gonavy/atsugi/gonavy604.html

The next carrier will be named the Gerald Ford. Will the next one after that be the Nixon?

Bill



Miller -> RE: Slightly OT: Last of the Nimitz class CVs Christened (10/8/2006 12:43:47 PM)

CVN-82 Jerry Springer, anyone?[;)]



Monter_Trismegistos -> RE: Slightly OT: Last of the Nimitz class CVs Christened (10/8/2006 5:55:16 PM)

How about naming a CV after a womnan? CVN Monica Levinsky perhaps? [:D]



Apollo11 -> RE: Slightly OT: Last of the Nimitz class CVs Christened (10/8/2006 5:59:53 PM)

Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: irrelevant

George H. W. Bush - uh...Defender of Kuwait


He was navy pilot in the Pacific during WWII.

He was President.


Leo "Apollo11"



SamCole -> RE: Slightly OT: Last of the Nimitz class CVs Christened (10/8/2006 6:16:55 PM)

If it is to be named in 2013, then it will probably be CVN Condi Rice.[X(]



Bearcat2 -> RE: Slightly OT: Last of the Nimitz class CVs Christened (10/8/2006 8:08:35 PM)

USN JFK
named after President who
WW2 hero for saving crew after getting boat sunk
threatened Red China with war over Quemoy and Matsu
screwed up Cuban invasion-promised support- then changed his mind
sent the first troops to South Vietnam
brought the world to the brink of nuclear disaster- Russians backed down, thankfully
Cut taxes on the rich- thus providing a boost to the economy
Biggest claim to fame- assinated

USN Bush
Invaded Panama
Saved Kuwait; hey a victory!
passed no significant legislation
Was the youngest pilot in the US Navy during WW2-18 years old
biggest claim to fame -shot down in WW2

not much difference between the two.



Terminus -> RE: Slightly OT: Last of the Nimitz class CVs Christened (10/8/2006 8:23:31 PM)

Tell us what you really feel, why don't you?



Ursa MAior -> RE: Slightly OT: Last of the Nimitz class CVs Christened (10/8/2006 9:53:56 PM)

There is definitely somthing wrong with the names of US ships nowadays.

Check LCS Freedom AFAIK next is Independence. What comes after? LCS Democracy?

Someone is taking the names of soviet warships from the fifties.

Brave new world.



JJB647 -> RE: Slightly OT: Last of the Nimitz class CVs Christened (10/8/2006 11:46:07 PM)

I read somewhere that Truman and Bush were picked to honor the Presidents during the start and finish of the cold war. Otherwise I agree Bush shouldn't have a CV named after him, even if he was a Naval Aviator during WWII.



Onime No Kyo -> RE: Slightly OT: Last of the Nimitz class CVs Christened (10/9/2006 12:44:50 AM)

Maybe theyre just trying to use their last chance to have a CV named for him. If the democrats ever get elected again Thread knows there will never be another budget to include nuclear carriers in it. [:D]



SireChaos -> RE: Slightly OT: Last of the Nimitz class CVs Christened (10/9/2006 12:47:21 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ursa MAior

There is definitely somthing wrong with the names of US ships nowadays.

Check LCS Freedom AFAIK next is Independence. What comes after? LCS Democracy?

Someone is taking the names of soviet warships from the fifties.

Brave new world.


Wasn´t the US CVL class in WW2 named Independence (sorry I´m not sure right now, I am jet lagged)? So that name has been around quite a bit longer. Also there was a USS Constitution.

I don´t like naming ships after living people, either. Nor that so many respectable carrier names (like Yorktown) are tied up as cruisers. Personally, I´d have reserved the "carrier name pool" for carriers and old battleship and/or cruiser names for cruisers.



Terminus -> RE: Slightly OT: Last of the Nimitz class CVs Christened (10/9/2006 12:48:23 AM)

Too few carriers around these days to save all those names...



wdolson -> RE: Slightly OT: Last of the Nimitz class CVs Christened (10/9/2006 1:15:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ursa MAior

There is definitely somthing wrong with the names of US ships nowadays.

Check LCS Freedom AFAIK next is Independence. What comes after? LCS Democracy?

Someone is taking the names of soviet warships from the fifties.

Brave new world.


It seems like the more the US government talks about freedom and democracy, the less they practice it. The US is far, far from German style fascism of the 40s, but it has too much similarity to Italian and Spanish style fascism for my comfort.

Bill



Gregg -> RE: Slightly OT: Last of the Nimitz class CVs Christened (10/9/2006 1:58:37 AM)

Years ago I did make a formal suggestion as to naming CVN-77.
I suggested - USS Taxpayer.
I'm sure that suggestion never got anywhere :>))
Gregg



ctangus -> RE: Slightly OT: Last of the Nimitz class CVs Christened (10/9/2006 3:00:55 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gregg

Years ago I did make a formal suggestion as to naming CVN-77.
I suggested - USS Taxpayer.
I'm sure that suggestion never got anywhere :>))
Gregg


Well, I'm sure that wouldn't get anywhere either. But I like it. [;)]



Ron Saueracker -> RE: Slightly OT: Last of the Nimitz class CVs Christened (10/9/2006 4:22:12 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ursa MAior

There is definitely somthing wrong with the names of US ships nowadays.

Check LCS Freedom AFAIK next is Independence. What comes after? LCS Democracy?

Someone is taking the names of soviet warships from the fifties.

Brave new world.


Scary but not surprising, these were the names of the black shuttles in the movie Armageddon!



LargeSlowTarget -> RE: Slightly OT: Last of the Nimitz class CVs Christened (10/9/2006 2:10:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: irrelevant

GHWB's major contribution to Naval Aviation was to validate the Lifeguard Submarine concept.

If you want to name one after a naval aviator (and what could possibly be more appropriate), how about USS Wade McCluskey?


LOL for the first remark.

Agree on the second, although McCluskey made a mistake at Midway which could have had serious consequences.

From the Pacific War Historical Society website:

Through his binoculars, McClusky could see that the three closest Japanese carriers were manoeuvring frantically to avoid an attack by American Navy torpedo bombers. The attacking aircraft were in fact Yorktown's Torpedo Squadron Three (VT-3). McClusky was amazed to find no Zeros barring their path to the Japanese carriers. There was not a moment to lose, and McClusky broke radio silence to assign targets. He assigned one carrier (Kaga) as his target and another (Akagi) to Lieutenant Richard H. "Dick" Best's Bombing Six. At 1022, McClusky pushed over his SBD and plunged like a vengeful thunderbolt on Kaga. Twenty-six of his SBDs followed him in the dive on Kaga.

[...]

Lieutenant Commander McClusky had breached dive-bombing doctrine by diving on Kaga instead of the more distant Akagi. As the trailing squadron, Lieutenant Dick Best's Bombing Six should have dived on Kaga. McClusky's Scouting Six, which was the leading squadron, should have flown further on and dived on Akagi. Dick Best did not receive McClusky's assignment of targets by radio, and followed doctrine by preparing to dive on Kaga. He was startled when McClusky and Scouting Six flashed past him in their own dive on Kaga. With commendable presence of mind, Best retrieved the potentially dangerous situation by closing his dive-flaps and signalling Bombing Six to follow him towards Akagi. It was too late! McClusky's error caused all of Bombing Six except Best's two wing men to follow McClusky and Scouting Six in their dive on Kaga. The seriousness of McClusky's error can only be fully appreciated when it is realised that it could have led all of the Enterprise SBDs to attack Kaga and leave the Japanese flagship Akagi untouched!

Other appropriate names would be Waldron, Leslie, Thach, O'Hare, McCampbell - also Marine Corps pilots like Foss, Bauer, Smith or Boyington - imagine a CVN called 'Pappy'. [:D]



Don Bowen -> How about the USS Political? (10/9/2006 4:12:11 PM)

The U.S. Navy used to have set naming conventions and a strict rule against naming ships for living individuals.   Carriers were named after battles or famous ships of the past, but exceptions began early - one named for a pioneer aviator killed in an accident, then two for presidents that died in office.  Not too bad...

But then a carrier was named for the head of the congressional committee that allocated military funds and the floodgates were open.   Now naming is purely political and a sorry shame.  At the very least to old "no living individual" requirement should remain.   With a decreasing number of ships and plenty of famous old ship names unused, there is little justification for naming larger ships after politicians (except politics, of course).  Add me to the list of forum members that decrys this trend.




fcooke -> RE: Slightly OT: Last of the Nimitz class CVs Christened (10/9/2006 6:22:22 PM)

There was a CVL named Independence in WW2 so I can deal with that name. The USS Constitution is still in existance and still in Commission so that name is unavailable. But I think there are available 'famous' names - like Hornet - that should be used.

When I first heard about the CVN Reagan I did a quick web search because I thought I had missed word of his passing. Turns out he was still alive (at the time) and the Navy had changed their practices.

Who has responsibility for the names - Navy or politicians?



Przemcio231 -> RE: Slightly OT: Last of the Nimitz class CVs Christened (10/9/2006 6:34:33 PM)

Funny Discusiom...

But a Dumb Question for what in the hell do you need another CV??[:D] Russian Fleet is rusting in its ports , China dose not have any significant naval force. And if you will want to intervene in places like N. Korea or Iran or any other country you will meet no oposition exept a coupple of rusted disel Romeo sub's[:D][:D][:D] or some small obsolate surface vesseles armed with obsolate weapon system's[:D]



anarchyintheuk -> RE: Slightly OT: Last of the Nimitz class CVs Christened (10/9/2006 6:38:38 PM)

At this point they're pretty much just replacments for ones that are scrapped, er . . . turned in to eco-friendly environments. The number of cvs isn't increasing.



tsimmonds -> RE: Slightly OT: Last of the Nimitz class CVs Christened (10/9/2006 7:07:02 PM)

If WitP has a lesson, isn't it that life is better when you have carriers and the other guy does not?



wworld7 -> RE: Slightly OT: Last of the Nimitz class CVs Christened (10/9/2006 7:21:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: fcooke

Who has responsibility for the names - Navy or politicians?


Let's see, the Navy works for the people, who are represented by their politicians.

So the answer would be for better or worse the politicians.

Flipper



SireChaos -> RE: Slightly OT: Last of the Nimitz class CVs Christened (10/9/2006 8:22:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: fcooke

There was a CVL named Independence in WW2 so I can deal with that name. The USS Constitution is still in existance and still in Commission so that name is unavailable. But I think there are available 'famous' names - like Hornet - that should be used.

*snip*


Hornet and Wasp are currently some kind of amphibious "baby carrier", that is, LPD, LHD or LHA type ships. At first sight this would seem like a "demotion" for the name, until you realize that these ships are about as WW2 carriers. A lot of others of those ships are named after WW2 Pacific Theater battles (like USS Tarawa, USS Saipan and so on) and so have names that would into the "carrier name pool" as well.



fcooke -> RE: Slightly OT: Last of the Nimitz class CVs Christened (10/9/2006 8:53:49 PM)

Thanks for the response. I know about the Wasp but do you have a ref/link on the Hornet? I can't seem to find her.

thx,
Frank



Mark VII -> RE: Slightly OT: Last of the Nimitz class CVs Christened (10/9/2006 9:59:15 PM)

Yes, very true. Especially when we have the large super carriers that no one else has![:D][:D][:D]
quote:

ORIGINAL: irrelevant

If WitP has a lesson, isn't it that life is better when you have carriers and the other guy does not?




Ursa MAior -> RE: Slightly OT: Last of the Nimitz class CVs Christened (10/9/2006 10:07:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget
Other appropriate names would be Waldron, Leslie, Thach, O'Hare, McCampbell - also Marine Corps pilots like Foss, Bauer, Smith or Boyington - imagine a CVN called 'Pappy'. [:D]


Damned right. I dont know too much about sea or navy air men from the korean or vietnam war but it would be more appropiate to name a CV after say Henderson than a living person.

Oh BTW ther is a Bill Clinton Ave somewhere IIRC in Arkansas. Even in our hungarian half-democracy the person shoould be dead at least since 25 yrs before a street or whatever can be named after him.



dtravel -> RE: Slightly OT: Last of the Nimitz class CVs Christened (10/9/2006 10:26:16 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Przemcio231

Funny Discusiom...

But a Dumb Question for what in the hell do you need another CV??[:D] Russian Fleet is rusting in its ports , China dose not have any significant naval force. And if you will want to intervene in places like N. Korea or Iran or any other country you will meet no oposition exept a coupple of rusted disel Romeo sub's[:D][:D][:D] or some small obsolate surface vesseles armed with obsolate weapon system's[:D]


Because carriers can operate anywhere there is deep water. They are not dependent on having some friendly country in the vicinity where the US has already built a military base. They are usable against just about any target, not just naval forces. A lot of the aircraft flying ground support in Afganistan and Iraq were carrier based.

The USN carrier battlegroup is the current pinnacle of gunboat diplomacy and power projection. If someone does something we really really don't like, we park one nearby. They tend to improve the hearing and friendliness of whoever we want to talk to just by being there. [;)]



SireChaos -> RE: Slightly OT: Last of the Nimitz class CVs Christened (10/9/2006 11:26:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: fcooke

Thanks for the response. I know about the Wasp but do you have a ref/link on the Hornet? I can't seem to find her.

thx,
Frank


Nor can I, it seems. Apparently my memory was playing tricks with me. Wikipedia says the Essex class ship is the most recent Hornet. Besides the F/A-18, of course[;)]



Micah Goodman -> RE: Slightly OT: Last of the Nimitz class CVs Christened (10/10/2006 2:22:12 AM)

The problem with the way that the Navy names its ships is that it has changed from honoring ideas, Independence, ect. Or institutions, President, Congress, ect. Or even geographic areas of the county. Now it centers on appeasing US politicians. Now we have air craft carriers named John C Stennis! Suck up to the Navy and get a ship named after you. How pathetic. I would amend naming ships to not only dead people but if they are politicians they should be dead for at least 50 years. Look at how much animas this thread has kicked up over naming certain ships after recent politicians. It turns my stomach that the worst US President in History (IMHO anyway) has a submarine named after him. Submarines are now named after states. The USS Texas should always be at least a cruiser or something bigger, not a submarine. But I digress; the only way the current policy will go back to the way it was is if Congress makes it a law and not a policy. But politicians are too busy patting themselves on back at how wonderful they are and how they need to be honored by having their name put on a ship that will be around for fifty years. Give me a break.



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