RE: Tutorial #4 (Full Version)

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Froonp -> RE: Tutorial #4 (10/26/2006 6:36:47 PM)

quote:

When a major power becomes neutral all it's Militia units are lost, but since the Korean unit is not a Japaneese unit, but an Korean unit it will not be removed like the the Tokyo militia right?

Korean units are not Japanese units, that's granted, but when Japan goes Neutral, I think that Korea also goes Neutral. So, its MIL disappear too.



trees trees -> RE: Tutorial #4 (10/26/2006 6:50:53 PM)

what's the status of Formosa lately? It's not listed as aligned with Japan...did they take away the capital status for Taihoku? I forgot.



Froonp -> RE: Tutorial #4 (10/26/2006 9:49:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: trees trees

what's the status of Formosa lately? It's not listed as aligned with Japan...did they take away the capital status for Taihoku? I forgot.

Aligned with Japan, as Korea and Manchuria.
Taihoku is still the capital.



c92nichj -> RE: Tutorial #4c (10/27/2006 3:48:29 AM)

quote:

Korean units are not Japanese units, that's granted, but when Japan goes Neutral, I think that Korea also goes Neutral. So, its MIL disappear too.


But that is not what the rules say:
If you are now a neutral major power, remove any MIL units you
have on the map or on the production circle.

If a minor makes peace the following is stated:
If a minor makes peace and is now not at war with anyone, remove
all its land and aircraft units from the game until it is next at war,

But that seems strange as an Italian aligned Somalia would then loose her TERR on the first peace step unless Italy declares war during the first turn of the global war scenario.

Maybe this is something for Peters list



Froonp -> RE: Tutorial #4c (10/27/2006 11:26:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: c92nichj

quote:

Korean units are not Japanese units, that's granted, but when Japan goes Neutral, I think that Korea also goes Neutral. So, its MIL disappear too.


But that is not what the rules say:
If you are now a neutral major power, remove any MIL units you
have on the map or on the production circle.

If a minor makes peace the following is stated:
If a minor makes peace and is now not at war with anyone, remove
all its land and aircraft units from the game until it is next at war,

But that seems strange as an Italian aligned Somalia would then loose her TERR on the first peace step unless Italy declares war during the first turn of the global war scenario.

Maybe this is something for Peters list

Humm, first you write that "that is not what the rules say" when I write that the Neutral's MIL are removed from the game, and then you quote a rule (13.7.3 Mutual peace) that say that all minor's units are removed from the game. So the MIL are removed from the game, why write that the rule do not say that ?

Anyways, as to Somalia (and all Italian East Africa indeed), you're right that there seems to be a problem here. This makes the rule about a minor going neutral and the setup, seems being non consistent within each other. All Italian East Africa is Neutral (as Italy is Neutral at setup), but the setup rules say that you have to pick up 2 TERR in these areas.

I take it that it is an exception to the rule, and the that setup must be right, and that the rule applies to Minor that are at war and then go to peace. Italian East Africa may have been considered as a special case as it starts the game at peace (it does not become neutral, it is neutral), but still have units at setup.

I'll ask Harry's opinion.




Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Tutorial #4c (10/27/2006 11:58:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp
quote:

ORIGINAL: c92nichj
quote:

Korean units are not Japanese units, that's granted, but when Japan goes Neutral, I think that Korea also goes Neutral. So, its MIL disappear too.


But that is not what the rules say:
If you are now a neutral major power, remove any MIL units you
have on the map or on the production circle.

If a minor makes peace the following is stated:
If a minor makes peace and is now not at war with anyone, remove
all its land and aircraft units from the game until it is next at war,

But that seems strange as an Italian aligned Somalia would then loose her TERR on the first peace step unless Italy declares war during the first turn of the global war scenario.

Maybe this is something for Peters list

Humm, first you write that "that is not what the rules say" when I write that the Neutral's MIL are removed from the game, and then you quote a rule (13.7.3 Mutual peace) that say that all minor's units are removed from the game. So the MIL are removed from the game, why write that the rule do not say that ?

Anyways, as to Somalia (and all Italian East Africa indeed), you're right that there seems to be a problem here. This makes the rule about a minor going neutral and the setup, seems being non consistent within each other. All Italian East Africa is Neutral (as Italy is Neutral at setup), but the setup rules say that you have to pick up 2 TERR in these areas.

I take it that it is an exception to the rule, and the that setup must be right, and that the rule applies to Minor that are at war and then go to peace. Italian East Africa may have been considered as a special case as it starts the game at peace (it does not become neutral, it is neutral), but still have units at setup.

I'll ask Harry's opinion.


My guess is that Italy was at war with Ethiopia not too long before the start of the game so the territorials are lingering on.

A more blatant mistake in the setups is for Missed the Bus. The Italians get those same territorials, which are to set up in East Africa, even though they no longer control any of the countires in East Africa. I decided to simply remove the units from the setup in Missed the Bus.



Neilster -> RE: Tutorial #4c (10/27/2006 7:19:38 PM)

quote:

My guess is that Italy was at war with Ethiopia not too long before the start of the game so the territorials are lingering on.

A more blatant mistake in the setups is for Missed the Bus. The Italians get those same territorials, which are to set up in East Africa, even though they no longer control any of the countires in East Africa. I decided to simply remove the units from the setup in Missed the Bus.


I've only skimmed this discussion (exam in 10 hours) but Ethiopia was conquered in 1935 and the Italians attacked British Somaliland on August 3rd 1940 from Italian East Africa (Ethiopia, Eritria and Italian Somaliland). Doesn't "Missed the bus" start in Jul/Aug 1940?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_African_Campaign_%28World_War_II%29

Cheers, Neilster



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Tutorial #4c (10/27/2006 7:36:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Neilster
quote:

My guess is that Italy was at war with Ethiopia not too long before the start of the game so the territorials are lingering on.

A more blatant mistake in the setups is for Missed the Bus. The Italians get those same territorials, which are to set up in East Africa, even though they no longer control any of the countires in East Africa. I decided to simply remove the units from the setup in Missed the Bus.


I've only skimmed this discussion (exam in 10 hours) but Ethiopia was conquered in 1935 and the Italians attacked British Somaliland on August 3rd 1940 from Italian East Africa (Ethiopia, Eritria and Italian Somaliland). Doesn't "Missed the bus" start in Jul/Aug 1940?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_African_Campaign_%28World_War_II%29

Cheers, Neilster


You are right. Perhaps I have the wrong scenario - I last worked on trying to get all the scenario entered just about 1 year ago (8 1/2 done 2 1/2 to go).



c92nichj -> RE: Tutorial #4c (10/28/2006 5:11:05 PM)

quote:

Anyways, as to Somalia (and all Italian East Africa indeed), you're right that there seems to be a problem here. This makes the rule about a minor going neutral and the setup, seems being non consistent within each other. All Italian East Africa is Neutral (as Italy is Neutral at setup), but the setup rules say that you have to pick up 2 TERR in these areas.

I take it that it is an exception to the rule, and the that setup must be right, and that the rule applies to Minor that are at war and then go to peace. Italian East Africa may have been considered as a special case as it starts the game at peace (it does not become neutral, it is neutral), but still have units at setup.


With Global war that can be explained but considering a DoD scenario where Uk is not at war would she not be able to build the Burma units or any of the African minors TERR?

How about Libya it is an aligned minor and italy can get units there.

Same applies to the USSR aligned mongolian CAV, can it be built/setup prior to a USSR war and will it be free when war is declared?



Greyshaft -> RE: Tutorial #4c (10/28/2006 10:41:52 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Neilster

I've only skimmed this discussion (exam in 10 hours)...


So how did you fare in the exam?



Neilster -> RE: Tutorial #4c (10/29/2006 4:08:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Greyshaft


quote:

ORIGINAL: Neilster

I've only skimmed this discussion (exam in 10 hours)...


So how did you fare in the exam?


Thanks for asking. It was Mobile and Ubiquitous Computing and it was extremely hard. One fifth of the exam was on XHTML-mp which was a fairly minor component of the course and that pissed me off a great deal. In general I was well prepared though, so it went quite well.

Next up is Topics in Advanced Mathematics. That should be a breeze [;)]

Cheers, Neilster




Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Tutorial #4c (10/29/2006 7:36:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Neilster
quote:

ORIGINAL: Greyshaft
quote:

ORIGINAL: Neilster
I've only skimmed this discussion (exam in 10 hours)...


So how did you fare in the exam?


Thanks for asking. It was Mobile and Ubiquitous Computing and it was extremely hard. One fifth of the exam was on XHTML-mp which was a fairly minor component of the course and that pissed me off a great deal. In general I was well prepared though, so it went quite well.

Next up is Topics in Advanced Mathematics. That should be a breeze [;)]

Cheers, Neilster



Next up is Topics in Advanced Mathematics.

Such as? I am curious what is considered 'advanced'. And in what context (e.g., as part of what degree program).



Neilster -> RE: Tutorial #4c (10/30/2006 8:15:27 AM)

It's a 3rd year maths subject in a BSc. I think the name of the subject is a bit grandiose, as any undergraduate work is pretty elementary compared to the cutting edge stuff.

It covers geometry, combinatorics, set theory, topology, number theory and history of mathematics. They're favourite topics of the lecturer, who's your classic absent-minded genius but charismatic and great fun.

All I know is I've got 3 more exams to do to graduate. They can call them whatever they like. Jobs are raining from the sky for skilled workers here, so I'm looking forward to abandoning the ranks of poverty-striken students.

That's of course unless I take a juicy scholarship to do education. They're desperate for maths and science teachers. Pretty good money, great holidays, lazy, disrespectful, drug addled kids with ADHD...Hmmm. Maybe one of the local, exclusive, all-girl senior schools are hiring. Then again...that might not be such a good idea. [;)] (Hey! They never proved those allegations [:'(])

Cheers, Neilster



Greyshaft -> RE: Tutorial #4c (10/30/2006 8:39:28 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Neilster
Jobs are raining from the sky for skilled workers here, so I'm looking forward to abandoning the ranks of poverty-striken students.


Just wait until Howard brings in his national education scheme then outsources it to India and gets all of the students to pass high school via distance learning from Bangalore. [:D]



Neilster -> RE: Tutorial #4c (10/30/2006 9:31:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greyshaft


quote:

ORIGINAL: Neilster
Jobs are raining from the sky for skilled workers here, so I'm looking forward to abandoning the ranks of poverty-striken students.


Just wait until Howard brings in his national education scheme then outsources it to India and gets all of the students to pass high school via distance learning from Bangalore. [:D]



Don't get me started on those clowns. They were still denying global warming 5 minutes ago (in public anyway. Privately they knew what was going on but didn't want to annoy their coal industry mates. All of a sudden they've discovered renewable energy and have finally spent some of the zillions they've had sitting around for years that was earmarked for it. The drought has turned up the heat on them and forced them to bust open the pork-barrel ahead of their usual pre-election spend-up).

Still, by under-funding education and making it ridiculously difficult to battle through a degree without resorting to wealthy parents, drug dealing or prostitution (Austudy: Can you say "40% below the povery line"? [:@]), they've created a big demand for graduates. I take no pleasure in that though. I know clever people who can't afford to go to uni. How's that in Australia's interest?

I've had a Coalition politician, whilst full of grog, tell me that they don't want kids from working class backgrounds getting tertiary education because they end up with a bunch of left-wing ideas and join Young Labor. No, no, no. Better to make it financially difficult, so as to favour those whose parents can subsidize them, meaning more graduates who "think the right way".

That's good for the current government but bad for Australia. I used to hang around uni 15 years ago and it was a really interesting and vibrant place. Now they're little more than graduate factories, with compliant, time-poor students marching in lock-step, too busy juggling part-time jobs and study to cause any trouble and just desperate to get the degree so they can start paying off the massive debt they've just incurred. Of course all these bastards making the decisions got their Economics/Law degrees back when they were free and students had enough money to eat. Just like they reduced the generous pay and superannuation package for any politicians after them. Universities should be a place where new ideas are formed and the status quo is challenged. That's healthy for a society. Drone production isn't.

Arrrrgh! I told you not to get me started [:D]. There's an Orwellian push to control the future by controlling the past too. And what's the latest gem from these geniuses? Tax dollars to subsidize chaplains in schools! WTF? [:@]

You'd vote for the opposition except they're a useless pack of no-hopers too. [:D]

Cheers, Neilster




amwild -> RE: Tutorial #4c (10/30/2006 11:42:47 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Neilster


And what's the latest gem from these geniuses. Tax dollars to subsidize chaplains in schools! WTF? [:@]




I don't mind so long as they are atheist chaplains...



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Tutorial #4c (1/21/2008 1:16:50 AM)

Here is the first of 3 new pages (they go at the end) for the land units tutorial. In RAW this is section 28.

The tables for these 3 (and the other 2) pages were created by Patrice.

[image]local://upfiles/16701/8D85A4D1999F4CD283D0D25336A0D391.jpg[/image]



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Tutorial #4c (1/21/2008 1:19:07 AM)

I decided to not include these in Rules as Coded, but instead make them a separate PDF file - like I am doing with the terrain effects chart and the unit symbol/number explanation charts.

[image]local://upfiles/16701/E7A6548A9D1740779E986EE0EFD47880.jpg[/image]



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Tutorial #4c (1/21/2008 1:20:43 AM)

3rd and last in the series.

These pages, like all the text & picture (introductory) tutorial pages can be called up for viewing during game play.

[image]local://upfiles/16701/4BD914D5AC8548D183B19CE0A77978A5.jpg[/image]



Zorachus99 -> RE: Tutorial #4c (1/21/2008 6:08:46 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

3rd and last in the series.

These pages, like all the text & picture (introductory) tutorial pages can be called up for viewing during game play.

[image]local://upfiles/16701/4BD914D5AC8548D183B19CE0A77978A5.jpg[/image]


There is so much whitespace, you might want to include the condition & optional rule neccessary for factories to be moved.



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Tutorial #4c (1/21/2008 7:56:30 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorachus99


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

3rd and last in the series.

These pages, like all the text & picture (introductory) tutorial pages can be called up for viewing during game play.

[image]local://upfiles/16701/4BD914D5AC8548D183B19CE0A77978A5.jpg[/image]


There is so much whitespace, you might want to include the condition & optional rule neccessary for factories to be moved.

Good idea.



composer99 -> RE: Tutorial #4c (1/21/2008 6:37:12 PM)

You may want to consider moving motorized engineers to a separate row. Also, as with the footnote for the German rail gun, you may wish to have a footnote in the engineer entry for the US marine engineers (I believe the US is the only one to get them); the differences between marine engineers and other engineers is slight, but it is there.



praem -> RE: Tutorial #4c (1/21/2008 11:26:42 PM)

A typo in the text - 2nd paragraf. Your writing "...nor can they can..."



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Tutorial #4c (1/21/2008 11:47:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: praem

A typo in the text - 2nd paragraf. Your writing "...nor can they can..."

Thanks.



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Tutorial #4c (1/30/2008 2:46:33 AM)

Here is a new page for the land unit tutorial (picture by Patrice). It is an insert, so pages 13 - 15 used to be numbered 12 - 14.

[image]local://upfiles/16701/EE9361BAF93548FBB79F344A6ECCADA4.jpg[/image]



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