Suspicious "Dirt" on Kenny Rogers Hand..

Suspicious "Dirt" on Kenny Rogers Hand.. (Full Version)

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TF-M -> Suspicious "Dirt" on Kenny Rogers Hand.. (10/24/2006 2:59:10 AM)
Kenny Rogers has a brown smudge on his hand in the 1st inning of game 2. He had an almost identical smudge in a play off game. Here is the ESPN article: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/colum...t&lid=tab1pos1 Rogers pitched beautifully even after he washed his hands...but that is not the point. The point is this...if the Cardinals Coach would have specifically asked the umpires to investigate and if it would have turned out that he had Pine Tar on his hands he would have been ejected from the game based on past precidence. This would have likely DRAMATICALLY changed the psychology and possibly the outcome of the game. Again if La Russa would have made a point to have it investigated, and it turned out to be false that would have ended it and Detroit would have an untarnished win. Now because La Russa may have been trying to be nice or tactful or whatever perhaps based on his relationship or esteem for Jim Leyland, if the Tigers win it, they will always be overshadowed by the undying question of "what if"? It will be a sullied victory regardless of whether Kenny Rogers had Pine Tar on his hand, dirt, chillie, crap...it won't matter because now the public will never know and will always suspect. I think La Russa did the series a disfavor by not demanding it be checked out. Going into this World Series I was not particularly leaning either way. I thought both teams had put in a good effort and deserved a win...but after the seeing the picture of Kenny's hand from the playoff game next to a pic of his hand last night...I think I am going to have to pull for the Cards to pull this out...just in case. [:-] Baseball will be better for it if they do.[:(]

Tigers Roar -> RE: Suspicious "Dirt" on Kenny Rogers Hand.. (10/24/2006 4:26:06 AM)
As a die hard Tiger fan, I am disappointed that the controversy has taken away from the results on the field and has tainted in many eyes the accomplishments of Rogers in this post season. Obviously it is hard to be unbiased in this matter. I will simply say that while your point about IF they had inspected and found pine tar he would have been ejected, the fact remains THEY DIDN’T. That being said, all the speculation is just that, speculation. Everyone is playing judge and jury without a trial taking place. People are going to draw whatever conclusions they want but the facts are this, the umpires did not determine it warranted inspection, he was allowed to pitch and the results speak for themselves. End of story. Now while I can certainly understand the Cardinal fan reaction, I would remind them that they had a certain player for many years that they idolized who has been suspected of something far worse than what Rogers is suspected of now. As of now there is no proof that this idolized player was guilty of anything, and until there is, the results of all those Cardinal games he had a part of winning will stand as legitimate, just as last nights win by the Tigers was.

TF-M -> RE: Suspicious "Dirt" on Kenny Rogers Hand.. (10/24/2006 5:42:20 AM)
Good points. Not being a die hard fan for either I have no problem with that. I just think it's sad that this would even be the topic of a conversation. After all of the scandals etc. it is just another "odd" occurance to add to all the others and like I said it may tarnish any victory for the tigers and that's the sad thing considering how good they've played when they've been hot. Real or not it's there now and if they just would have cleared it up at the time it could be rememberd with out blemish. Baseball certainly has probably never been clean just like business. You have people who will play the odds and grift as much as they can and you have people who take pride in a job well done. I won't jump on the "I'm Giving Up Baseball" band wagon over it. I won't. I just wish we would hear more about these latter rather then the former...

PadresFan104 -> RE: Suspicious "Dirt" on Kenny Rogers Hand.. (10/24/2006 5:42:36 AM)
I don't think Rogers was cheating last night, but that doesn't make him any less of an asshole. [:)]

Silverbullet -> RE: Suspicious "Dirt" on Kenny Rogers Hand.. (10/24/2006 5:42:29 PM)
This is one of the reasons I LOVE Baseball Sims.[:D] This crap doesn't happen in my leagues.[;)]

dnelms -> RE: Suspicious "Dirt" on Kenny Rogers Hand.. (10/24/2006 6:58:32 PM)
Well in Tony LaRussa's press conference yesterday, he said he told the umpires that "he saw something on his hand, and that if it was there the next inning, he would take the next step". In other words, he gave Rogers a chance to fix it before he got him ejected. May have been the right thing to do, but team wise, should he not have done all he could to get Rogers out of the game and the series at that very moment?

SirWolf1960 -> RE: Suspicious "Dirt" on Kenny Rogers Hand.. (10/24/2006 9:23:43 PM)
Of course I'm just speculating here, but here goes: 1) Whatever was on Rogers' hand in the first inning wasn't there the rest of the game. I think he pitched pretty well for 8 innings, so I don't see the alleged substance as a factor. 2) LaRussa probably knows that some of his pitchers also stretch the rules. Who knows, he might even have a hitter or two with corked bats. So, you don't want to start pointing fingers, knowing that fingers could, and probably would be pointed back. 3) It might have been just mud. But perhaps, Rogers wants to leave that seed of doubt in hitters' minds. I don't know if any of this is true, but isn't this all part of what makes baseball fun??? Steve

TF-M -> RE: Suspicious "Dirt" on Kenny Rogers Hand.. (10/25/2006 2:04:04 AM)
"2) LaRussa probably knows that some of his pitchers also stretch the rules. Who knows, he might even have a hitter or two with corked bats. So, you don't want to start pointing fingers, knowing that fingers could, and probably would be pointed back. " This is the last thing I want to hear lol... They had a picture side by side of Kenny's hand, one from a play off game and one from game 2 it was nearly identical. Kenny Rogers is a fairly well groomed player. The odds of that being something other then deliberate seems way off base to me. It also had a slighty orange tint to it like iodine or ...pine tar. Whatever though. I hate to think of any sport as anything but clean. Looking forward to getting over it and watching game 3 tonight. My one and only point of this thread is this... I as a fan of baseball was disappointed. "Surprisingly" disappointed considering I have no investment in either team. So much so I felt I had to say something...hence this thread. It may be true that "everyone" is doing it though I suspect a few guys aren't, it may also be true that every team bends or breaks the rules...but to have something so blatant and stupid crop up right in the middle of the World Series....I was disappointed. Thanks everyone for not flaming me here. [;)]

KG Erwin -> RE: Suspicious "Dirt" on Kenny Rogers Hand.. (10/25/2006 3:19:08 AM)
You guys are making too much of this. Next game up. Let's play ball! [:D]

TF-M -> RE: Suspicious "Dirt" on Kenny Rogers Hand.. (10/25/2006 3:35:29 AM)
PS I am done. Play Ball! [:D]

Woodruff -> RE: Suspicious "Dirt" on Kenny Rogers Hand.. (10/25/2006 9:08:23 PM)
Here's my take on it. Listening to the BASEBALL TONIGHT crew with Kruk and Dusty Baker...it sounds to me like using pine tar by pitchers to get a better grip on the ball is ACCEPTED PRACTICE within baseball circles. Certainly it's not something that's commonly known outside of baseball (at least nobody I know of has heard of it). So it sounds like Kenny Rogers was really only guilty of not hiding the pine tar well enough. FWIW, I'm a huge Cardinals fan, so I don't think I'm biased.

fenrrris -> RE: Suspicious "Dirt" on Kenny Rogers Hand.. (11/5/2006 8:44:04 AM)
I realize this thread is a little old and I don't post often, but I thought it worth saying that in the steroid era a smudge on the hand is almost a nod to the old days. Personally, I HOPE he was cheating. That's the kind of thing where I say, "Well, the bastard got away with it. More power to him." It's a wholesome sort of cheating in the name of competition. The common method of cheating now is self-destructive, debasing cheating that screws with the proportions and perceptions of the entire game of baseball. If a few more guys were trying to get away with the rosin trick and a lot less with the HGH trick baseball would be better off.

Deltadog -> RE: Suspicious "Dirt" on Kenny Rogers Hand.. (11/11/2006 5:28:54 PM)
Where in the rules of baseball does it require the pticher or any player to wash his hands or other body parts[:)]. As I understand the rule the dirt or other substance cannot be on the ball. It would seem that the ball is where the opposing manager and or umps should have looked.

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