88 Years ago today........... (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945



Message


captskillet -> 88 Years ago today........... (10/28/2006 1:31:12 PM)

October 28, 1918

German sailors begin to mutiny

On this day in 1918, sailors in the German High Seas Fleet steadfastly refuse to obey an order from the German Admiralty to go to sea to launch one final attack on the mighty British navy, echoing the frustrated, despondent mood of many on the side of the Central Powers during the last days of World War I.


By the last week of October 1918, three of the Central Powers—Germany, Austria-Hungary and the Ottoman Empire—were at least in talks with the Allies about reaching an armistice, while the fourth, Bulgaria, had already concluded one at the end of September. With the end of the war seemingly in sight, the German naval command—led by the Admiralty’s chief of staff, Reinhardt Scheer—decided to launch a last-ditch effort against the British in the North Sea in a desperate attempt to restore the German navy’s prestige. In the words of Reinhardt Scheer, chief of staff of the German Admiralty, "An honorable battle by the fleet—even if it should be a fight to the death—will sow the seed of a new German fleet of the future. There can be no future for a fleet fettered by a dishonorable peace." Choosing not to inform the chancellor, Max von Baden, of its plans, the German Admiralty issued the order to leave port on October 28.


The sailors themselves, however, believing the attack to be a suicide mission, would have none of it. Though the order was given five times, each time they resisted. In total, 1,000 mutineers were arrested, leaving the Imperial Fleet immobilized. By October 30, the resistance had engulfed the German naval base at Kiel, where sailors and industrial workers alike took part in the rebellion; within a week, it had spread across the country, with revolts in Hamburg, Bremen and Lubeck on November 4 and 5 and in Munich two days later. This widespread discontent led Socialist members of the German Reichstag, or parliament, to declare the country a republic on November 9, followed swiftly by Kaiser Wilhelm’s abdication and finally, on November 11, by the end of the First World War.




VSWG -> RE: 88 Years ago today........... (10/28/2006 2:15:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: captskillet
This widespread discontent led Socialist members of the German Reichstag, or parliament, to declare the country a republic on November 9, followed swiftly by Kaiser Wilhelm’s abdication and finally, on November 11, by the end of the First World War.

That is incorrect. The German Republic was declared by Phillip Scheidemann, a Social Democrat, on November 9th at 2pm. Two hours later, Karl Liebknecht, Germany's most prominent socialist/communist, declared Germany to be a "Free Socialist Republik", but he and the socialist movement were defeated in following civil war by an alliance of "new republic" and "old elites" (military, politicians, entrepreneuers).

Sorry for nitpicking, captskillet, but the article you posted made it look like the Weimar Republic was founded by socialists, and not by stauch democrats. There's quite a difference between social democrats and socialists.




captskillet -> RE: 88 Years ago today........... (10/28/2006 2:41:54 PM)

Actually he proclaimed a republic in general (in effect telling the Kaiser to hit the road) not the 'Weimar Republic', the Weimar republic didn't happen until the Weimar consttution was passed in 1919.




VSWG -> RE: 88 Years ago today........... (10/28/2006 3:47:31 PM)

Chancellor Max von Baden had already announced Wilhelm II.'s resignation when Scheidemann proclaimed the Republic - without the knowledge of Wilhelm himself, though! As far as Scheidemann (and the average German on the street) was concerned, the monarchy had already ended. The Republic was born on November 9th, but you're right that the Weimar Republic emerged only in August 1919, when the new constitution became effective.

Edit: Replaced empire with monarchy - there's a difference!




rokohn -> RE: 88 Years ago today........... (11/1/2006 9:51:49 PM)

I hope you will correct me if I am wrong, but. . .

I was under the impression that Wilhelm was an emperor. The 2nd Reich was an empire of various German states and principalities and so on. The empire was formed in 1871 in France. ( Can't spell Versailles) The Kaiser was also the King of Prussia as well as the emperor over princes and other kings. I think Baden had a king under the Kaiser. Probably Saxony and Wurtemburg?

Part of the treaty was to get rid of the various kings and princes to and put all of germany under one republic.




VSWG -> RE: 88 Years ago today........... (11/2/2006 1:52:17 AM)

Correct.

The 2nd German Empire was a federal state with 25 member states - among them such powerful states like Prussia or Bavaria, and tiny fiefdoms like Reuss (I don't even know where that is [:D]).

Baden: Grand Duchy.
Saxony: not united at that time. Saxe-Weimar, Saxe-Coburg-Gotha,... most of them ruled by a Duke.
Wuerttemberg: Kingdom.

quote:

Part of the treaty was to get rid of the various kings and princes to and put all of germany under one republic.

Treaty = Treaty of Versailles 1919? If so, the treaty doesn't mention the German constitution - maybe it would have if Germany had still been an empire at that time. However, when Germany wanted to commence peace talks in the second half of 1918, Wilson sent a note to the German government that (indirectly) stated that the emperor had to abdicate before such talks could commence.




Mynok -> RE: 88 Years ago today........... (11/2/2006 6:24:43 AM)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reuss




Page: [1]

Valid CSS!




Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI
0.65625