RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land

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po8crg -> RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land (7/8/2007 11:14:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets quote: ORIGINAL: dale1066 Just been reading through the naval descriptions and looking at the specs for example max armour thickness some seem to be in metric some imperial and some have both. To me a trivial thing however others may not think such. Is it a question of what data is avialable, for example I would expect all CW naval descs to be in imperial measures and the rest of the european navies to be metric? what about the US? Apols if this has been discussed before I did a search for metric and imperial and nothing cropped up I have standardized on US punctuation for numbers: 12,000 men, 16.2 thickness. But for the metric, I have strongly advised to go with the owning country/country where manufactured, which will make the write ups inconsistent across all unit writeups. I was unfamiliar with the use of the adjective Imperial for measuring systems. Instead I am use to English versus Metric. This is one of those "divided by a common language" things. We British reference the Imperial system; you Americans call it the English system. Mostly, the units are the same, feet, inches, yards and miles are the same in Britain as in the USA; pounds and ounces are the same, but our ton is 2,240 lb, to your 2,000 lb. Of course, the tons ships are measured in are completely different anyway - they're 100 cu. ft. Gross Tonnage is the relevant measure for military ships. All of the measures of fluid volume, from fluid ounce to pint to gallon are completely different between the two systems. I think for most purposes, we're unlikely to confuse Imperial and US units when they have the same name. The key exceptions are the ton, where it's important to distinguish short tons from long tons and from metric tonnes when referencing weights (eg of tanks and aeroplanes) and the gallon if anyone does mention fuel consumption or tankage.

Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land (7/8/2007 11:30:39 PM)
What a mess. Thanks for the information. None of this affects game play (mercifully) and I try to just let the authors of the various unit descriptions do their thing. Occasionally my background of majoring in English (not an English Major as I have been reminded several times) rears its head and I make some grammar and spelling corrections. On rare occasions I will rewrite a line for clarity.

po8crg -> RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land (7/9/2007 1:55:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets What a mess. That's one of the reasons that people switched to the metric system. Every town had it's own definitions of the foot, inch, pound, etc.

Mziln -> RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land (7/9/2007 3:59:30 AM)
I have been looking into the Hungarians here is what I found out. There is no such thing as the Gd Motorized corps. Unless you count border guards. In Yugoslavia 3rd Hungarian Army I.Army Corps 1st Infantry Brigade 13th Infantry Brigade 15th Infantry Brigade IV.Army Corps 2nd Infantry Brigade 10th Infantry Brigade 12th Infantry Brigade V.Army Corps 14th Infantry Brigade 19th Infantry Brigade 2nd Cavalry Brigade the Gyorshadtest 1st Cavalry Brigade 1st Motorized Brigade 2nd Motorized Brigade In Barbarossa the Karpat Group 1st Mountain Brigade 8th Border Guard Brigade the Gyorshadtest 1st Cavalry Brigade 1st Motorized Brigade 2nd Motorized Brigade the Gyorshadtest or "Fast Moving Army Corps". However the name was something of a misnomer as it was only mechanized compared to other Hungarian units. The corps was not particularly mechanized when compared to similar units fielded by countries like Germany. The tanks of the armored units were woefully obsolete. Armed with Italian Fiat L3 light (which had no turret and were armed with 2 fixed forward 8mm machineguns) often referred to as "tankettes". And the Hungarian Toldi I light/medium tanks had a 20mm gun in a rotating turret. But this gun offered no serious armor piercing capability. The Italian vehicles were worthless against modern Soviet anti-tank guns. While marginally better the Hungarian vehicles were no match for even some of the worst Soviet light tanks. The Karpat Group also included the integral 1st Air Force Field Brigade (a collection of German and Italian aircraft). The Hungarian air brigade were of older vintage and were no match for Soviet fighter planes and bombers. While well trained and well disciplined, the Karpat Group was poorly equipped and poorly supplied. Unfortunately the latter deficiencies were never remedied. On 6 December 1941, the Hungarian mechanized corps was allowed to return to Budapest. The departure of the Gyorshadtest left the Hungarians with only a bicycle battalion, four infantry brigades, and two cavalry brigades on the Eastern Front. This force was poorly-equipped to cope with the vast distances and appalling conditions found there. Only the cavalry was able to make any useful contribution. Germany continued to demand a maximum effort from the Hungarians and soon the Hungarian Second Army was dispatched. By the end of 1942, this ill-fated army was on the front lines north of Stalingrad protecting the doomed German 6th Army's northern flank. Hungarian Second Army IIIrd Field Corps 6th Light Field Division 7th Light Field Division 9th Light Field Division IVth Field Corps 10th Light Field Division 12th Light Field Division 16th Light Field Division VIIth Field Corps. 19th Light Field Division 20th Light Field Division 23rd Light Field Division 1st Armored Field Division Source Wikipedia.

mlees -> RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land (7/9/2007 4:26:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: po8crg Mostly, the units are the same, feet, inches, yards and miles are the same in Britain as in the USA; pounds and ounces are the same, but our ton is 2,240 lb, to your 2,000 lb. Of course, the tons ships are measured in are completely different anyway - they're 100 cu. ft. Gross Tonnage is the relevant measure for military ships. All of the measures of fluid volume, from fluid ounce to pint to gallon are completely different between the two systems. It's my understanding that warships were measured in "Displacement" tons. (The weight of the seawater displaced by a ship.) Cite: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonnage Quote from cite: quote: Displacement is the actual total weight of the vessel. It is often expressed in long tons or in metric tons, and is calculated simply by multiplying the volume of the hull below the waterline (ie. the volume of water it is displacing) by the density of the water. (Note that the density will depend on whether the vessel is in fresh or salt water, or is in the tropics, where water is warmer and hence less dense.) For example, in sea water, first determine the volume of the submerged portion of the hull as follows: Multiply its length by its breadth and the draft, all in feet. Then multiply the product thereby obtained by the block coefficient of the hull to get the hull volume in cubic feet. Then multiply this figure by 64 (the weight of one cubic foot of seawater) to get the weight of the ship in pounds; or divide by 35 to calculate the weight in long tons. Using the SI or metric system : displacement (in tonnes) is volume (in m3) multiplied by the specific gravity of sea water (1.025 nominally). The word "displacement" arises from the basic physical law, discovered by Archimedes, that the weight of a floating object equates exactly to that of the water which would otherwise occupy the "hole in the water" displaced by the ship. Cargo ships probably use the GRT method. The Washington Naval Treaty defined a ton as 2240 pounds (weight, not volume), in Part 4: Definitions, here: http://www.ibiblio.org/pha/pre-war/1922/nav_lim.html Or am I misunderstanding something?

jesperpehrson -> RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land (7/11/2007 11:13:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mziln I have been looking into the Hungarians Great! I will mark you down for them! On another note, a fellow swede has volonteered for doing writeups (BredsjöMagnus). He is gonna do the a small country to start out. That means that the Swedes outnumber any other nationality for volonteering! Heja Sverige! Come on you brits and yanks! Will you be outdone by a pesky icecold half-socialist country? Tsk tsk [:D][:D]

Frederyck -> RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land (7/12/2007 12:00:03 AM)
I am really sorry I can't boost the Swedish write-up participation ratio, but still, heja Sverige!!! [8D] /Carl-Niclas

composer99 -> RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land (7/12/2007 12:36:35 AM)
quote: Will you be outdone by a pesky ice-cold half-socialist country? Tsk tsk [:D][:D] Whazzat? Is he talking about Canada? [:'(]

dale1066 -> RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land (7/14/2007 6:42:52 PM)
Just been looking through Janes for details on the french navy Do you need the details of the Hungarian navy [:)]

Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land (7/14/2007 8:44:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dale1066 Just been looking through Janes for details on the french navy Do you need the details of the Hungarian navy [:)] Hey, the Swiss just won the America's cup (again).

Mziln -> RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land (7/14/2007 9:52:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dale1066 Just been looking through Janes for details on the french navy Do you need the details of the Hungarian navy [:)] No Hungarian navy units are represented in the game. See page 2 of this thread for Land units needing to be done. [:D]

dale1066 -> RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land (7/15/2007 12:54:50 AM)
Oh I know, it just surprised me to find a navy for a land locked country, FYI they were patrol vessels on the danube. Please save me from that much detail inf WiF [:D] Thats what the Europa series of games are for, fancy doing the computer version of them next lads? [&o]

CBoehm -> RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land (7/16/2007 4:44:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: capitan quote: ORIGINAL: iamspamus Um, weren't para's (say a div or smaller unit) used against Eban Emael, the Belgian fortress in the open shots of 1940? I really don't remember Crete being the first use of them. Naybe Crete should be the first "large scale use" of German paras. Thanks, Jason Good point. This will be corrected. I believe that it was way smaller than a division that overtook Eban Emael though. I will check out the details. EDIT: "10 May 1940, 85 paratroopers of the 1st Fallschirmjäger Division landed in the fortress with gliders" http://www.answers.com/topic/fort-eben-emael I believe that the first paradrop during wartime took place on april 9th 1940 05:05 as part of the invasion of denmark when 80 paratropers command by hauptmann Walter Gerickewere transported by 12 JU52 secured the Madsnedoefort (Madsned-islands-fortress) whose 120mm guns overlooked the Storstoems-bridge linking Sealand to the island of Falster south of it. - as it happens the fortress had been decomissioned and the garrison consisted of 2 recruits and a civilian armed with a machinegun but no ammunition..., so there were no shots fired. - However just as the danish surrender order came a scratch force had been assembled to try to retake it ... LINK to homepage of Madsnedoe-fortress Claus

Neilster -> RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land (7/16/2007 5:24:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CBoehm quote: ORIGINAL: capitan quote: ORIGINAL: iamspamus Um, weren't para's (say a div or smaller unit) used against Eban Emael, the Belgian fortress in the open shots of 1940? I really don't remember Crete being the first use of them. Naybe Crete should be the first "large scale use" of German paras. Thanks, Jason Good point. This will be corrected. I believe that it was way smaller than a division that overtook Eban Emael though. I will check out the details. EDIT: "10 May 1940, 85 paratroopers of the 1st Fallschirmjäger Division landed in the fortress with gliders" http://www.answers.com/topic/fort-eben-emael I believe that the first paradrop during wartime took place on april 9th 1940 05:05 as part of the invasion of denmark when 80 paratropers command by hauptmann Walter Gerickewere transported by 12 JU52 secured the Madsnedoefort (Madsned-islands-fortress) whose 120mm guns overlooked the Storstoems-bridge linking Sealand to the island of Falster south of it. - as it happens the fortress had been decomissioned and the garrison consisted of 2 recruits and a civilian armed with a machinegun but no ammunition..., so there were no shots fired. - However just as the danish surrender order came a scratch force had been assembled to try to retake it ... LINK to homepage of Madsnedoe-fortress Claus Awesome. Thanks for the research and the local knowledge. I vaguely recall reading about paratroops used in Denmark and they were certainly used in Norway. I can imagine those Ju-52s rumbling through the pre-dawn Spring sky, packed with equipment and steely, square-jawed German paratroops who have studied maps and models, and trained extensively for what appeared to be a vital mission. Cheers, Neilster

fallgelb -> RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land (7/17/2007 1:57:33 PM)
The German Paratroopers and Air Landing units were used in three major operations: 1. Units (not over battallion size) of the "Fallschirmjäger Division" in JU52 were Paradropped on airfields in northern denmark, near Oslo and as i remember Stavanger to secure airfields. 2. The "Fallschirmjäger Division" and the 22nd Airlanding Division ("Luftlandedivision, actual an infantry division without heavy weapons, without an artillery regiment and i think with a fourth infantry regiment) were paradropped and landed with gliders on airfields in the netherlands (Rotterdam, Den Haag). In terms of "number of air landed soldiers" a larger operation than the landing on crete. The operation was "one airfield too far" and the troops near Den Haag suffered extrme losses. 3. In the air landing on crete participated the Fallschirmjägerdivision and one or two mountain divisions ás air landing units and in barges. The Operation to paradropp on malta never occur, because of the extreme lcasualities on crete (as i remember higher than 30%) with the true Private Ryan story among a german Paratrooper "Family". The 22nd Air Landing Division (from the durch campaign) was reorganized and reequipped as normal infantry Division for Barbarossa and fought in the crimea (as i remember). In the late war the german Paratroopers were used as light elite infantry units for difficult terrain (like Monte Cassino). Due to Hermann Görings ambitions a paratrooper army was founded in the western theater (about 1944). Michael

Mziln -> RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land (7/17/2007 6:07:59 PM)
Part of the Battle of the Bulge called Operation Stösser called for elements of the Fallschirmjäger reg. to drop behind enemy lines and capture the "Baraque Michel" crossroads. Due to bad weather, many planes went off-course, and men were dropped as far as a dozen kilometers away from the intended drop zone, with only a fraction of the force landing near it. By noon a group of around 300 managed to assemble, but this force was too small and too weak to counter the Allies. Colonel von der Heydte abandoned plans to take the crossroads and instead ordered his men to harass the Allied troops in the vicinity with guerrilla-like actions. Because of the extensive dispersal of the jump, with Fallschirmjäger being reported all over the Ardennes, the Allies believed a major divisional-sized jump had taken place, resulting in much confusion and causing them to allocate men to secure their rear instead of sending them off to the front to face the main German thrust.

Incy -> RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land (7/17/2007 7:57:52 PM)
Actually, the paratroopers that took Fornebu airfield and gressholmen flotation plane airport (both near Oslo) simply landed, got out of the planes, and took over the airport. At gressholmen shots were fired, but both airports fell very quickly. When you're at peace, it's not the custom to shoot down unidentified aircraft coming in to land, and before radar, there was only very few minutes available to react and scramble a defence of the airports. quote: ORIGINAL: fallgelb The German Paratroopers and Air Landing units were used in three major operations: 1. Units (not over battallion size) of the "Fallschirmjäger Division" in JU52 were Paradropped on airfields in northern denmark, near Oslo and as i remember Stavanger to secure airfields. 2. The "Fallschirmjäger Division" and the 22nd Airlanding Division ("Luftlandedivision, actual an infantry division without heavy weapons, without an artillery regiment and i think with a fourth infantry regiment) were paradropped and landed with gliders on airfields in the netherlands (Rotterdam, Den Haag). In terms of "number of air landed soldiers" a larger operation than the landing on crete. The operation was "one airfield too far" and the troops near Den Haag suffered extrme losses. 3. In the air landing on crete participated the Fallschirmjägerdivision and one or two mountain divisions ás air landing units and in barges. The Operation to paradropp on malta never occur, because of the extreme lcasualities on crete (as i remember higher than 30%) with the true Private Ryan story among a german Paratrooper "Family". The 22nd Air Landing Division (from the durch campaign) was reorganized and reequipped as normal infantry Division for Barbarossa and fought in the crimea (as i remember). In the late war the german Paratroopers were used as light elite infantry units for difficult terrain (like Monte Cassino). Due to Hermann Görings ambitions a paratrooper army was founded in the western theater (about 1944). Michael

brian brian -> RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land (7/17/2007 10:46:16 PM)
wasn't there also a small drop in reaction to the Allied invasion of Sicily? that led to at least a memorable and massive Squad Leader scenario I've always wanted to play.

mldtchdog -> RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land (7/26/2007 5:44:25 PM)
Is there 1 or 2 Philippine Territorials?

Froonp -> RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land (7/26/2007 6:43:12 PM)
Yes, there is one, why this question ? [image]local://upfiles/10447/97A906CA4C0947A7AC66056ED53EFDE1.jpg[/image]

Froonp -> RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land (7/26/2007 6:53:52 PM)
This is the same, from MWiF. [image]local://upfiles/10447/45D13A76EA7A4B0095B9C4628C58CC4D.gif[/image]

mldtchdog -> RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land (7/26/2007 6:54:38 PM)
quote: Yes, there is one, why this question ? I'm starting to work on the USA units. I couldn't remember how many Philippines there were. I was thinking that there were two.[:(]

Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land (7/26/2007 8:54:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mldtchdog quote: Yes, there is one, why this question ? I'm starting to work on the USA units. I couldn't remember how many Philippines there were. I was thinking that there were two.[:(] You were probably thinking of MacArthur[;)].

jesperpehrson -> RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land (7/26/2007 9:22:38 PM)
I just recently recieved the finished russian and mongolian army write-up from Adam! And what does he do? He dives right back in to the americans! I am stunned by his skill and productivity. A round of applause for his efforts! [&o] (I have yet to redact them into the master document) On another note the Poles and the Belgians are finished too by Michael and Magnus! We are getting closer but the task ahead is still huge. If any of you out there want to pitch in, if only with one country or even just one write-up please do. - Jesper

Froonp -> RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land (7/26/2007 9:59:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets You were probably thinking of MacArthur[;)]. MacArthur ? Who's that ? (Sorry, I can't help posting pictures of the counters !) [image]local://upfiles/10447/A6AB872E6707434A82879414503D607D.gif[/image]

Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land (7/27/2007 1:47:32 AM)
Might as well show the whole writeup.[:)] [image]local://upfiles/16701/581F45C86C964CEDBC6F2D2F4265CA73.jpg[/image]

jesperpehrson -> RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land (8/2/2007 11:13:01 PM)
Status-report on Landunits (all countries): 394 out of 999 units done (39%) Allies: USA 19/99 (Adam) Russia 122/146 (Adam) Siberian Russia 4/4 (Adam) DONE! UK 6/57 France 7/68 Communist China 16/18 (Wosung) Nat. China 33/38 (Wosung) Axis: Germany 70/128 (Capitan) SS-Germany 0/19 (Capitan) Japan 6/76 Italy 15/61 (Jimm) Commonwealth countries: Australia 8/8 (Michaelbaldur) DONE! New Zeeland 3/3 (Michaelbaldur) DONE! Canada 1/10 (Michaelbaldur) India 1/13 (Michaelbaldur) South Africa 5/5 (Michaelbaldur) DONE! Burma 0/2 Thailand 0/1 Palestine 0/1 Egypt 0/2 Sudan 0/1 Kenya 0/1 Uganda 0/1 Tanganyika 0/1 Northern Rhodesia 0/1 Southern Rhodesia 0/1 Nigeria 0/2 Sierra Leone 0/1 Aden 0/1 British Somalialand 0/1 Northern Ireland 0/1 Axis minors: Finland 8/8 (Adam) DONE! Hungary 0/6 Rumania 10/10 (Adam) DONE! Bulgaria 0/3 Croatia 1/1 (Capitan) DONE! Libya 0/3 (Jimm) Eritrea 0/1 (Jimm) Italian Somalialand 0/2 (Jimm) Ukraine 0/8 (Adam) AOI 1/1 (Mziln) DONE! Latin America neutrals: Mexico 0/6 Panama 0/2 Colombia 0/1 Venezuela 0/1 Ecuador 1/1 (Capitan) DONE! Peru 1/1 (Capitan) DONE! Brasil 0/5 Bolivia 0/1 Paraguay 0/1 Uruguay 0/1 Chile 0/2 Argentina 0/3 Japanese colonies: Korea 0/2 Manchuko 0/4 Formosa 0/1 Russian vassals: Mongolia 1/1 (Adam) DONE! French Colonies: Syria 0/2 (Capitan) Tunisia 0/1 (Capitan) Algeria 0/2 (Capitan) Morroco 0/1 (Capitan) French Somalia 1/1 (Capitan) DONE! Madagascar 0/1 (Capitan) Gabon 0/1 (Capitan) Cameroon 0/1 (Capitan) Ivory Coast 1/1 (Capitan) DONE! French Sudan 1/1 (Capitan) DONE! Senegal 1/1 (Capitan) DONE! Middle Congo 1/1 (Capitan) DONE! Niger 1/1 (Capitan) DONE! Indo-China 1/1 (Capitan) DONE! Neutrals: Iran 0/2 Afghanistan 0/2 (Adam) Ireland 0/2 (bj_rodhe) Netherlands 0/2 Belgium 0/4 (BredsjöMagnus) Portugal 0/2 Denmark 1/1 (Michaelbaldur) DONE! Norway 3/3 (Michaelbaldur) DONE! Sweden 10/13 (Toed) Switzerland 6/6 (Adam) DONE! Poland 13/14 (Michaelbaldur) Turkey 1/13 Iraq 2/2 (Capitan) DONE! Saudi Arabia 1/1 (Capitan) DONE! Nat. Spain 2/14 (SPerdomo) Liberia 1/1 (Capitan) DONE! Greece 0/4 Yugoslavia 1/9 (Dale) N. East Indies 2/2 (Capitan) DONE! Belgian Congo 1/1 (Capitan) DONE! Pre-1939: Ethiopia 1/6 Rep. Spain 1/14 Czeckoslovakia 1/15 Austria 0/3 All HQs are done by Greyshaft. NO-ONE is doing all ART (including AA, AT plus supplyunits)for all countries. A volounteer for this is needed urgently! If anyone has the urge to do the write-ups of a particular country send me a PM. This is very appreciated! Time is running short!

Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land (8/2/2007 11:19:16 PM)
I was looking at the territorials (CW and French mainly) and thought that perhaps one way of doing a writeup for each of them and keep it interesting would be to give a short background on the country: people/population, military prowess, the year colonized, etc.. A flavor of the country might be of interest, especially if the territorial unit did nothing during the war other than stay at home and guard the border.

Froonp -> RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land (8/2/2007 11:20:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: capitan Commonwealth countries: (...) Indo-China 0/1 This should go in the French Colony list please, not the CW one [:D].

jesperpehrson -> RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land (8/2/2007 11:21:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets I was looking at the territorials (CW and French mainly) and thought that perhaps one way of doing a writeup for each of them and keep it interesting would be to give a short background on the country: people/population, military prowess, the year colonized, etc.. A flavor of the country might be of interest, especially if the territorial unit did nothing during the war other than stay at home and guard the border. Two great minds think alike [;)] I was actually just thinking down the same line but I will save those for last as there might be great stories yet to be found for many of them.

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