RE: PBEM AAR - It Ain't a Lost Cause Yet!

RE: PBEM AAR - It Ain't a Lost Cause Yet! (Full Version)

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Gil R. -> RE: PBEM AAR - It Ain't a Lost Cause Yet! (11/28/2006 3:39:04 AM)
And then the 2nd Army is sent into Meridian in order to cut rail supplies to Jackson. Unfortunately, I realize that this is winter and there is a good chance that some or even most (or all?) of these units ordered to march from one province to another might not move at all, potentially wrecking my plans. But in the southern states one has a better chance of winter movement than in the northern states, so there's hope. And there's no choice but to try. [image]local://upfiles/16018/95ACF32253FC425C9033387BC88CF560.jpg[/image]

Gil R. -> RE: PBEM AAR - It Ain't a Lost Cause Yet! (11/28/2006 3:41:24 AM)
Here's how the 4th Corps is looking in terms of strength after that bout of disease. It is a very good thing that last turn I set supply levels so that most reinforcements would be steered into these brigades, since roughly all of the casualties lost to disease were replaced. So the 4th Corps is still a very robust 46000 men, though some brigades are dangerously low. [image]local://upfiles/16018/6D62216AFEA24012B13A2B9F929E9833.jpg[/image]

Gil R. -> RE: PBEM AAR - It Ain't a Lost Cause Yet! (11/28/2006 3:42:56 AM)
And here's how its Disposition levels look after disease hit. Only one brigade is at Low Disposition, which means that this force is perfectly capable of fighting. Whether it is strong enough to defeat the Union forces in Jackson will be an open question until the results of the battle are known, though. [image]local://upfiles/16018/C42B1E4FE86846F4B532D5EF2B8F6A6E.jpg[/image]

Gil R. -> RE: PBEM AAR - It Ain't a Lost Cause Yet! (11/28/2006 3:46:28 AM)
And finally, the 4th Corps moves into Jackson by rail, which is not affected by winter movement restrictions. If those other forces reach Meridian and Yazoo first they may be able to reinforce, but the 4th Corps is likely to have to do all of the fighting on its own. That same force recently defeated it, but it now has more scouts and artillery, while the Union force has not been able to improve because a fundamental rule of the game is that units cannot acquire new guns or attributes when the enemy is in the same province or they are in an enemy province. The worst thing that could happen now would be if the big Union force in Oxford comes down to Jackson, since that would lead to an overwhelming defeat of the 4th Corps. But this being winter, the Union would have to move by foot, and might not be able to do so. [image]local://upfiles/16018/F3CABC98D5744F7390F0EA02AF9F42D6.jpg[/image]

Gil R. -> RE: PBEM AAR - It Ain't a Lost Cause Yet! (11/28/2006 3:48:24 AM)
And finally, before ending the turn I buy another Mint, having earlier bought a new Camp. (Those 500 reinforcements per turn are like mother's milk...) After ending the turn, I promote John Hood to command the 1st Corps up in Cumberland River. And as Peter Griffin would say, "FIN." [image]local://upfiles/16018/D2FDE97425DB4299BCAA31C0124BDEA9.jpg[/image]

sirduke_slith -> RE: PBEM AAR - It Ain't a Lost Cause Yet! (11/28/2006 3:51:47 AM)
that was a funny episode[:D]

Gil R. -> RE: PBEM AAR - It Ain't a Lost Cause Yet! (11/28/2006 3:57:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: savedbythrbell that was a funny episode[:D] My thoughts exactly.

marecone -> RE: PBEM AAR - It Ain't a Lost Cause Yet! (11/28/2006 9:03:01 AM)
Why you didn't promote Cleburne instead? Thanks

Tophat1815 -> RE: PBEM AAR - It Ain't a Lost Cause Yet! (11/28/2006 9:06:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: marecone Why you didn't promote Cleburne instead? Thanks I saw this also and am wondering the same thing.

chris0827 -> RE: PBEM AAR - It Ain't a Lost Cause Yet! (11/28/2006 9:13:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tophat1812 quote: ORIGINAL: marecone Why you didn't promote Cleburne instead? Thanks I saw this also and am wondering the same thing. Why are Hood's ratings so high? Is another good question.

Jonathan Palfrey -> RE: PBEM AAR - It Ain't a Lost Cause Yet! (11/28/2006 10:40:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Gil R. My 1st Corps was defeated in Bowling Green, even though I'm almost certain that it outnumbered the enemy force and was clearly superior to it, and the USA suffered most of the casualties. I'd love to know what the heck happened... So would I, if that happened to me. Does the game give no information at all, beyond the bare statement of who won and what the casualties were? When the casualty figures suggest a resounding win but the claimed result is a defeat, it looks like a defect in the game. I would send in a bug report unless the game provided some convincing explanation of the result. I realize that battles were sometimes won by the side with the greater casualties. But was there ever a battle in which the winning side suffered more than three times the casualties of the loser? It's conceivable if the losing side was entrenched but heavily outnumbered; but that doesn't seem to have been the case here.

jimwinsor -> RE: PBEM AAR - It Ain't a Lost Cause Yet! (11/28/2006 11:04:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: chris0827 quote: ORIGINAL: Tophat1812 quote: ORIGINAL: marecone Why you didn't promote Cleburne instead? Thanks I saw this also and am wondering the same thing. Why are Hood's ratings so high? Is another good question. Answer: Forum democracy in action (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1275223). Although I must say Hood musta been a tricky one to rate; a perhaps better than average subordinate commander who was a disaster given a command of his own.

chris0827 -> RE: PBEM AAR - It Ain't a Lost Cause Yet! (11/28/2006 11:30:20 AM)
Anyone wanting a good laugh should check out johnbellhood.org. It's a rabidly pro-Hood site. You'd think that Hood was the greatest commander in american history from reading that site. Everything Hood did was perfectly logical and if something went wrong it was someone else's fault. The battle of Franklin is referred to as a technical confederate victory.

sirduke_slith -> RE: PBEM AAR - It Ain't a Lost Cause Yet! (11/28/2006 2:30:51 PM)
i am do belive that battle was a union victory, but in defence of hood, the confederates did technically "drive" the union from the defences (mainly had to do with how vulnerable the union lines were).

elmo3 -> RE: PBEM AAR - It Ain't a Lost Cause Yet! (11/28/2006 4:54:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jonathan Palfrey quote: ORIGINAL: Gil R. My 1st Corps was defeated in Bowling Green, even though I'm almost certain that it outnumbered the enemy force and was clearly superior to it, and the USA suffered most of the casualties. I'd love to know what the heck happened... So would I, if that happened to me. Does the game give no information at all, beyond the bare statement of who won and what the casualties were? ... FWIW I agree with Jonathan. You should have a good idea of the size of the enemy force after a battle and probably a good idea of their weapons capabilities. Not getting feedback on why the battle went the way it did seems like an oversight since somebody of command rank should survive and be able to give a report on what happened.

Gil R. -> RE: PBEM AAR - It Ain't a Lost Cause Yet! (11/28/2006 6:19:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: marecone Why you didn't promote Cleburne instead? Thanks Because I was being stupid. I had decided to promote Hood because he was in the 1st Corps, and only after it was too late did I remember that Cleburne had just appeared this turn. Once he reaches the corps I guess I can demote Hood and promote Cleburne, but that will anger Hood's governor. Of course, since Cleburne won't reach the corps for at least another turn it's not a bad thing for the corps to have a 3-star general commanding it, in case it needs to fight.

Gil R. -> RE: PBEM AAR - It Ain't a Lost Cause Yet! (11/28/2006 6:22:13 PM)
It's only in PBEM battles (and instant-resolve, I guess) that one doesn't find out why things happened the way they did. We'll see if we can provide more information.

elmo3 -> RE: PBEM AAR - It Ain't a Lost Cause Yet! (11/28/2006 6:59:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Gil R. It's only in PBEM battles (and instant-resolve, I guess) that one doesn't find out why things happened the way they did. We'll see if we can provide more information. Good news. Thanks.

Tophat1815 -> RE: PBEM AAR - It Ain't a Lost Cause Yet! (11/28/2006 10:30:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Gil R. quote: ORIGINAL: marecone Why you didn't promote Cleburne instead? Thanks Because I was being stupid. I had decided to promote Hood because he was in the 1st Corps, and only after it was too late did I remember that Cleburne had just appeared this turn. Once he reaches the corps I guess I can demote Hood and promote Cleburne, but that will anger Hood's governor. Of course, since Cleburne won't reach the corps for at least another turn it's not a bad thing for the corps to have a 3-star general commanding it, in case it needs to fight. Good to know it was an oversight,I actually thought Hood was possibly a favorite of yours.

Gil R. -> RE: PBEM AAR - It Ain't a Lost Cause Yet! (11/28/2006 10:47:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tophat1812 quote: ORIGINAL: Gil R. quote: ORIGINAL: marecone Why you didn't promote Cleburne instead? Thanks Because I was being stupid. I had decided to promote Hood because he was in the 1st Corps, and only after it was too late did I remember that Cleburne had just appeared this turn. Once he reaches the corps I guess I can demote Hood and promote Cleburne, but that will anger Hood's governor. Of course, since Cleburne won't reach the corps for at least another turn it's not a bad thing for the corps to have a 3-star general commanding it, in case it needs to fight. Good to know it was an oversight,I actually thought Hood was possibly a favorite of yours. Well, one possible reason for promoting Hood ahead of Cleburne would be if Cleburne doesn't have special abilities to teach, as Hood does. (Since I didn't check I don't know.) Having a general who can improve the fighting abilities of his brigades can be every bit as valuable as the general's ratings, which is why choosing which general to promote can often be tricky.

Jonathan Palfrey -> RE: PBEM AAR - It Ain't a Lost Cause Yet! (11/28/2006 11:57:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Gil R. It's only in PBEM battles (and instant-resolve, I guess) that one doesn't find out why things happened the way they did. We'll see if we can provide more information. It's the e-mail games that I take most seriously. And I'll probably use instant-resolve even for solo games, though I can't guarantee it at this stage. If you can provide more information, that will be appreciated.

Sheytan -> RE: PBEM AAR - It Ain't a Lost Cause Yet! (11/29/2006 12:56:32 AM)
Hail, Very nice AAR. Keep it coming!!! Virtute et Armis Sheytan

Grifman -> RE: PBEM AAR - It Ain't a Lost Cause Yet! (11/29/2006 4:21:58 AM)
Hood was a good, even great brigade/division commander, but a poor corp commander, and an awful army commander. An obvious case of a general being appointed to a level of command he could not handle. There really ought to be a penalty to the original ratings for a general if they are promoted beyond their historical ability. Hood is a perfect example.

Gil R. -> RE: PBEM AAR - It Ain't a Lost Cause Yet! (11/29/2006 4:30:30 AM)
If I'm not mistaken, wasn't Hood the guy about whom there was a lot of debate on the forum, leading me to say we'd revisit him once the game was out? I know there was some controversial general like that, and think it was Hood. (I'm too lazy to check.) Anyway, it does seem like we can all revisit Hood's ratings in the near future...

Mike Scholl -> RE: PBEM AAR - It Ain't a Lost Cause Yet! (11/29/2006 6:11:34 AM)
Hood actually jumped from a Division Commander at Gettysburg (where he lost a limb) to an Army Commander at Atlanta. His aggression and fighting spirit seem to have remained intact..., but his sense of reality (which had led him to complain about not being allowed to swing wider around "Little Round Top") seems to have degenerated as he began throwing his Army into endless "frontal assults" in 1864.

chris0827 -> RE: PBEM AAR - It Ain't a Lost Cause Yet! (11/29/2006 7:53:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl Hood actually jumped from a Division Commander at Gettysburg (where he lost a limb) to an Army Commander at Atlanta. His aggression and fighting spirit seem to have remained intact..., but his sense of reality (which had led him to complain about not being allowed to swing wider around "Little Round Top") seems to have degenerated as he began throwing his Army into endless "frontal assults" in 1864. Hood took over Longstreet's corps at Chickamauga when Longstreet was given command of the Confederate left wing. He was wounded in the leg and had it amputated at the hip. When he returned to duty he commanded a corps under Johnston in the Atlanta campaign. He may have become addicted to opium which he took to ease the pain from his lost leg and a badly wounded arm from Gettysburg. Everyone but Jefferson Davis knew it was a mistake to give him command of the Army of Tennessee. Lee said "We may lose Atlanta and the army too. Hood is a bold fighter. I am doubtful as to other qualities necessary." Joe Johnston was too careful but Hood was wildly aggressive and reckless. After losing Atlanta and a third of his army he took off on an idiotic invasion of Tennessee in which he lost another third of his army. Sherman didn't feel he was much of a threat and marched to the sea leaving Hood for Thomas to handle. Lincoln and Grant overestimated the threat from Hood and nearly relieved Thomas from command but the outcome was never in doubt. Thomas crushed Hood's army like an egg. It was the most complete victory of the war until Appomattox. To make matters worse his messages to Richmond lied about the condition of the army. For three weeks he claimed his losses in Tennessee had been light. Beauregard had wanted to transfer the army to the carolinas to but was shocked by what he found when he inspected the troops. One corps was down to 3078 men. What was left was sent to Mobile and South Carolina to serve under Johnston again. It's true the war was most likely lost by the time Hood took command but he threw away the most important thing the south had left. An army.

Mike Scholl -> RE: PBEM AAR - It Ain't a Lost Cause Yet! (11/29/2006 8:33:08 AM)
Yep..., lots of "fight", not much reality. Frantic frontal assults at Atlanta and Franklin which piled up casualties to no real purpose, then sitting outside Nashville stubbornly until Thomas was ready to move out and crush his army.

chris0827 -> RE: PBEM AAR - It Ain't a Lost Cause Yet! (11/29/2006 8:45:18 AM)
In addition to the regular soldiers he threw away he also lost 20 brigade and division commanders either killed or wounded and more than half of the regimental commanders. He lost 12 generals at Franklin alone including the superb Pat Cleburne who was passed over for promotion in favor of Hood in this AAR.

Tophat1815 -> RE: PBEM AAR - It Ain't a Lost Cause Yet! (11/29/2006 10:13:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: chris0827 In addition to the regular soldiers he threw away he also lost 20 brigade and division commanders either killed or wounded and more than half of the regimental commanders. He lost 12 generals at Franklin alone including the superb Pat Cleburne who was passed over for promotion in favor of Hood in this AAR. Gil, I really don't think the training ability Hood provides is worth it,this has bad omen written all over it.Roll the Bones or hire an Exorcist,issue the man a 4-leaf clover.Ahh,the heck with it,demote his butt and get Cleburne in command.

Gil R. -> RE: PBEM AAR - It Ain't a Lost Cause Yet! (11/29/2006 11:14:12 AM)
In the turn I'll be posting in the morning you'll see that Cleburne joined the 1st Corps in Cumberland River and was promoted to 2-star. I can make the additional change soon. Because of the antivirus software zapping the save-files from jchastain I didn't take my turn until pretty late, and it's now way too late to begin posting. I'll try to have it done by mid-day. Definitely an interesting turn.

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