Squads into half squads? (Full Version)

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Panther -> Squads into half squads? (8/3/2000 7:11:00 PM)

Would it be possible to have the option to brake squads into half squads and then maybe reform them later if you want to.



Nikademus -> (8/3/2000 8:01:00 PM)

pardon my tactical ingnorance (which is legendary ;-) ) but "why"?



Epicurius -> (8/3/2000 8:34:00 PM)

Its an ASL thing.



Nikademus -> (8/3/2000 8:54:00 PM)

hmm, well one thing i absolutely "do" love about SP:WAW is that even small groups of infantry can be useful vs. previous versions where they could be all but ignored. Just started playing that big 44/45 winter battle in which that US tank batalion got slaughtered by a post-Ardnennes German armor'ed thrust. two four-man ranger squads just trashed two careless Puma recon vehicles with medium range bazooka fire! That'll teach Jerry for chasing a poor harried jeep through the woods!



Panther -> (8/3/2000 9:42:00 PM)

The reason for this is that if you are playing a small scenerio on a medium size map you sometimes could break up your squads to maybe do small recon missions around the area with in a few hexes of each other. The other reason is that if you want to move a squad into an area that you are not certain about, would you move a whole squad and risk getting destroyed or just part of it? Now I know there are recon units that are represented in this game and their purpose is just to do that but they do get killed and some times you need to improvise. The other reason for breaking up squads is to maybe cover more ground when defending or searching for insurgents. This would also give you the ability to maybe disolve one squad in your platoon in the game and attach units to another squad if they take a beating. The reforming should only apply to units in the same platoon ie E0-E4. Anything above the platton level needs to be done on a different scale maybe between battles but that is another topic and one you do not experience here because we can usually fix most of the units between battles.



Pave -> (8/4/2000 3:58:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Panther: ...This would also give you the ability to maybe disolve one squad in your platoon in the game and attach units to another squad if they take a beating. ...
That would be nice. I've been thinking the same. I reality lost soldiers joined with other units, instead of just wondering alone. Just think the US paratroopers in Normandy. Why to have five two men teams where you could put them together and have a much more valuable ten man squad. Of course this would destroy all except one of the units, but that doesn't matter. This would still require that the units are same type. Ammunition, experience, morale etc could be calculated as a weighted mean value. For example: 8men with 70 exp+2men with 60exp=>10 men with (8*70+2*60)/10=68 experience. Pave



Paul Vebber -> (8/4/2000 4:21:00 AM)

Not meant as a dig, and sorry to blow off steam BUT [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/confused.gif[/img] It always amazes me how folks invoke things they want from ASL, but then when they get in the game, suddenly HATE them. We implemented a battery access system very similar to ASL's and we get...slammed!! "Why can't I ever get access to my guns...this sucks" despite the fact your odds of having access to a particular battery target on a given turn are better than what it typically is in ASL. [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/confused.gif[/img] We add crews back in the game and despite the fact I lost a memorable tournament game because of my opponents "SP-like" offensive use of some tank crews. Now offensive tank crews seem historical oddities that darn near ruin the game... [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/confused.gif[/img] We add national characteristics, inspired once again by ASL and get raked over the coals for "demeaning bigotry" toward Poles, Italians, and minor countries... [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/confused.gif[/img] SO consider those crews that hound you from the hobbes of hell as having joined up with their "dispersed" comrades that should be half-squads, mad about the unfairness of their cyber comrades being denegrated to "green status", out in the bushes, to punish you for liking ASL [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/tongue.gif[/img] (Please - all meant with tongue firmly in check...though with a grain of truth! As the wise men say...be carful what you wish for ASL fans [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]) [This message has been edited by Paul Vebber (edited August 03, 2000).]



Drake666 -> (8/4/2000 4:46:00 AM)

Like the saying "You cant be all things to all people". If something like this was added I could see many things that people would complain about. One is that you would have people breaking up a sqd into many parts so that it would be inposeble to flank or even move a unit without it being spooted. I just got to say Pual, that you and the rest of the matrix staff have done a great job adding as many features to the game as you have. Like theirs a few things that I deslike but I also understand that everything cant be fixed the way I would want it and that you got to try and work on the features that would add the most to the game without takeing away from the game itself and what you guys who are doing all the work think it should be. For a free game that is the best game I have played in a long long time I think that few people complain just a bet to much. Thats my two cents worth [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img]



Beantown -> (8/4/2000 5:33:00 AM)

Just a few well-meant thoughts: I realize that chat forums are a combination suggestion box/complaint box, yet I am also somewhat surprised by the lack of discussion involving tactics or gameplay in different scenarios or battles. It may be useful to keep in mind that this game was FREE, as were all the updates-this is one factor that keeps me from becoming frustrated over small problems or inconsistencies. For those of us who don't get to play ASL as much as we'd like, SPWAW is as close as it gets. OOBs aren't going to be perfect, nor are the pictures that accompany them, but we should not overlook the vast amount of work that it takes to compile an OOB for EVERY nation involved in WW2. Why quibble over a truck picture or the fact that a crew makes a heroic effort once and a while? I'm too busy enjoying the great work these guys have done. Sorry if this message sounded worse than it was meant, but remember the game was FREE (or nearly so).



Leibstandarte -> (8/21/2000 8:08:00 AM)

For what it's worth I think that this is a great game as is! What ever the Matrix staff feels the need to add great! The game gets better. If you want a super-realistic simulation or WWII then maybe spend a little less time on this game and a little more time on the time machine to go back to 1939. That was an attempt at a joke. Seriously lets give these guys credit, they have busted their butts for this game. Let's take it easy on them and be realistic on what we request. For the gentlemen at Matrix, thank you very much.



WW2'er -> (8/21/2000 8:26:00 AM)

Paul, (and all at Matrix) I can't help but think you guys are right on the money on most issues. Why?....Because you are BOTH praised AND damned at the same time. That tells me you've found that good middle ground. So try to take those few complaints as a backhanded compliment knowing that you've hit the mark once again! [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img] Peace, WW2'er



Panther -> (8/21/2000 8:24:00 PM)

Hi Paul. This is a reply to your post in this thread. The reason that I suggested this topic is not because of ASL. It actually has very little to do with ASL even though some people might think so. I did play ASL and even own a copy of it but I am not as familiar with it as many people might be on this thread. Crap I have not played ASL in 8 years. "Remember typhoon of steel for c64".The main reason for this sugestion was to possibly take a few men out of a squad and do local recon. What prompted me to this suggestion is that right now I'm playing a desent size game and what happens is that my recon squads got killed and I want to do some local recon. It really sucked having to move a whole squad right next to an enemy engineer do they just devistade your squad. As to the tank crews I really do not care what one does with them or what the computer does with them I always cosidered them the most elite of men in armies so they are the ones most likely to do all the things people hate about them. Thats all I will say about that. If you change some stuff with the crews thats fine if not that is ok as well. As for crew becoming half squads no way. As for minor coutries and ASL they are modeled just fine. Any one trying to kill a PT 7 these days would be suppriesd at how hard it is.(By the way I come from Poland and no you have not offended me by doing poland obb the way you did.) To every one else on this thread. As to ASL uless some one specifies that this is an ASL feature specifically that they want to implement one should not assume it is. (although ASL is very detailed) I hope every one is enjoying this game as much as me and all those small things do not bother me that much. Paul I hope you enjoyed blowing of steam it some times is very helpful to ones health and mental state. HEE HEE. Keep up the good work and I am sorry in advance if we are a bunch of guys that seem hard to please although I am already very pleased with you efforts. Panther PS I have not forgotten the rest of the matrix staff: Thank you. Patiently waiting for version 3.0



Grumble -> (8/5/2000 3:29:00 AM)

Well it's a slow Friday afternoon around here (for a change), so I'll add my 3 Pfennig worth. Have to agree with Mr Vebber, especially concerning "heroic" AFV crews. I think what we're seeing is a couple diamterically opposed views of reality. Some gamers want total control over everything-"how come my troops can't do xxx?". Related to this is a tendency to see casuality literally, ie "kill" rate. Another group, one of which I'm a member of BTW, looks in terms of simulation. I know I can't control what happens in small unit combat-in my view I shouldn't be able to- so I tend to ascribe strange things that occur to fortunes of war. A crew ignores fire from a Spec Ops squad and "kills" three of the enemy, fine. If one ASSUMES "kill" means non-combat effective, then yes, the unexpected resistance from an AFV crew caused three men to go to ground for a few minutes. Seems plausible to me. Related to this is the fact of game design that detail and accuracy are NOT synonymous. I'm not saying that one group is more right than the other, just that one must keep the design philosophy of the system in mind when critiquing it. FWIW I played ASL since it was first released (yeah I'm that old). I think SPWAW does a much better job SIMULATING small unit combat than ASL ever could. off my soapbox,



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