Surrounded Japanese Troops? (Full Version)

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Capt Henry_MatrixForum -> Surrounded Japanese Troops? (11/12/2006 10:52:58 PM)

My PBEM is in August, 1942 and I'm having some trouble in China eliminating Japanese ground forces and am wondering if this is due to game mechanics, my tactics, or poor Chinese infantry. I've got three divisions and one brigade surrounded at Yenen. I hold the base and have spent several months bombarding and bombing the position and conducting a few moderate assaults. I've lowered the japanses assault value from over 1300 to 600. In the past two weeks I've conducted two Shock Attacks with over 3300 assault points, have achieved 94 to 1 and 100 to 1 odds, and have suffered over ten times the casualties I have inflicted. I've waited to lauch attacks until my ground forces have lower disruption and fatigue. I've got twice the required supply in the hex. Is this what I should expect in most situations?

I'm hoping there is some way to move a bit faster as I've had some success in Burma, have surrounded two divisions and two brigades at Pagan and a brigade with four supporting units at Rangoon. I hold Moulmein. I'd like to be able to take both Pagan and Rangoon fairly quickly as there isn't much between me and Malaya or Bangkok



MarcA -> RE: Surrounded Japanese Troops? (11/12/2006 11:32:02 PM)

Capt, this is game mechanics. Troops surrounded in a a base they own will eventually surrender or banzai relatively quickly. Troops surrounded in a non base hex, or a hex with a base they don't own, take forever to surrender. You just have to keep at them. Look at swapping your units out to maintain there fighting efficiency and just keep up the pressure. You should notice that even though your losses are high your rise in disruption is low.

This is the way the ground combat model was designed to work, unfortunately.



6971grunt -> RE: Surrounded Japanese Troops? (11/15/2006 10:01:36 PM)

It maybe that Japanese troops don't surrender, but die to the last man - even in the wake of human wave attacks of the Chinese Army[sm=sterb003.gif]



niceguy2005 -> RE: Surrounded Japanese Troops? (11/15/2006 10:12:06 PM)

Also, use bombers against them. You have to kill every last one or get them to banzaii. YOu have to drive down their morale too.



goodboyladdie -> RE: Surrounded Japanese Troops? (11/16/2006 11:29:46 AM)

The important thing is to use up all of the surrounded units' supply. Once this is gone and they are fighting at 10% efficiency you can go to work. You must have CAP up to prevent supplies coming in by air. The 1.804 improvements mean that surrounded units will disappear through "attrition" if you keep hitting them. Be patient as they are more of a distraction to your enemy than to you and all of your LCUs and air units can get very experienced while they reduce the pocket.



goodboyladdie -> RE: Surrounded Japanese Troops? (11/16/2006 11:36:07 AM)

And do NOT shock attack until the enemy is completely disrupted and has no supply. It will do you more harm than him as you are using vast amounts of supply and disrupting your own units. Use deliberate attack to achieve the situation mentioned above and shock attack to finish him off. Also when fighting surrounded units in a base hex do not forget to prepare for that hex as this is also a big factor in disruption and casualty rates.



Sneer -> RE: Surrounded Japanese Troops? (11/16/2006 12:52:04 PM)

it is not feature for japan - all units and chinase too are invincible if surrounded




Lecivius -> RE: Surrounded Japanese Troops? (9/22/2007 12:31:51 AM)

Is there a way to tell how disrupted an enemy is? Sorry to post in an old post but I am looking all over for answers before I ask yet another N00b question.

I currently have Rabaul under seige. It's 3/18/43, and has been under complete siege since early January (Surface Action groups in the same hex unmolested). I have been constantly delivering Deliberate Attacks for the last month to this lvl 9 fortress with a 3-1 AV supported by several engineer companies. I have been bombing this place into the stone age with just about anything that flies. I'm running bombardment missions out of Gasamata with 6 BB's & a mixed CA/CL group evey 72 hours. On day 1 the Japs were "reported" to have 9440 troops with 32 guns (hence why I jumped it). The next day and over the next week in January that number climbed to 72660 troops and 586 guns even though the bloody place was surrounded [:@] . And 10 weeks later after a bombardment that has to have reduced the elevation of this point of land by several inches, sunk everuy ship that comes within 6 hexes, and have raised my troop disruption and fatigue to mid 50's the garrison is...29456 with 370 guns[sm=00000003.gif] Every turn I reduce the headcount by @ 150 casualties with the Bombardment missions taking out 2000 give or take. At this rate I will have reduced this one stronghold by 1945, and that's if I continue to point every gun that becomes available to it. I'm not sure how to speed up reducing such strong holds as this, Kwajalin (also with @77000 troops on it), Truk (ditto) Palau (aye, there as well) or Saipan (gawd, that place looks like downtown Tokyo at rush hour).

Are there any general tips to speeding up reducing strongholds? The troops there had, or are closing in on, 100% prep for Rabaul. And you do seem to need a few major ports due to the mechanics of the game.



niceguy2005 -> RE: Surrounded Japanese Troops? (9/22/2007 12:52:36 AM)

Lecivius, somewhere on this forum are a couple of threads about how to lay siege.

First question I have are you playing the AI on very hard (cause it cheats).

Second question what are you doing to take down the forts? You'll never take a place with level 9 forts.




Lecivius -> RE: Surrounded Japanese Troops? (9/22/2007 2:39:16 AM)

Scenario 15 Historical AI ( I didn't even know that could be changed! [8|] )

I started the siege with 5 infantry divisions, 2 tank batallions, and 3 Seebee companies. I now have just about every combat unit in the game with the exception of the North RCT's, an Infantry Division and a Marine division t Pearl. There are 14 engineer companies in the siege, 6th Army HQ, a Corp HQ, and 2 EABs. I'm moving in CD units as well, for the artie support. Every pure land Deliberate attack causes from 29-90 casualties, and about every 10 attacks cause a reduction in fort lvl.

I know exhaustion and cohesion are wearing me down. I did see a thread way back about planning, setting up a place close by to transfer troops to avoid travel stress, carriers outside the combat hex etc. I'm just not sure how to wear down a fortified position in less than 10 years.

On the bright side, I'm getting used to the quirks in this game [;)]



rubisco -> RE: Surrounded Japanese Troops? (9/22/2007 3:22:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lecivius
I started the siege with 5 infantry divisions, 2 tank batallions, and 3 Seebee companies. I now have just about every combat unit in the game with the exception of the North RCT's, an Infantry Division and a Marine division t Pearl. There are 14 engineer companies in the siege, 6th Army HQ, a Corp HQ, and 2 EABs. I'm moving in CD units as well, for the artie support. Every pure land Deliberate attack causes from 29-90 casualties, and about every 10 attacks cause a reduction in fort lvl.


There are two types of engineers in the game - construction engineers and combat engineers. The Seebee units and the EAB's are composed of construction engineers, which don't take down forts in attacks - these don't add anything to your assault. To take down fortifications, you need combat engineers.

Also, make sure you alternate between attacking and resting your troops. When resting them, use artillery to bombard and keep up the pressure. I tend to only attack when my troops have less than 30 disruption and 50 fatigue. Resting your troops for a few days will bring the battle to a faster conclusion than continuously attacking.



Lecivius -> RE: Surrounded Japanese Troops? (9/22/2007 5:38:59 PM)

I tried resting, using Bombardment All. The fatige stopped but did not decrease. I went defensive for a week & it dropped a couple. Hard to rest troops in combat in a malaria zone.

I've read other threads about complaints on land battles. I guess this is my initiation[sm=00000030.gif]

On a side note, April 4th 1943 Rabaul fell. Seige lasted 3 months, almost to the day, with everything available in the game being tossed at it.



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