1.3.84 Observations (Full Version)

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MjH -> 1.3.84 Observations (11/13/2006 7:33:57 PM)

The following are observations from a couple of games:

League Games (my own CFL league with randomly generated players)
Default Canadian Rules
Default Canadian Playbook
Both games were between computer-controlled teams (i.e. no human intervention in drafting, depth charting, etc.), games played as computer vs. computer

- 90%+ of all punts are kicked towards the right sideline
- On at least three occasions, when the punt returner picked up the ball from the ground, he was facing the sidelines. Instead of turning right and running upfield, he ran straight out of bounds -- there were no opposing players in the immediate area.

This next item is rather involved and encompasses several problems.

Very early in one game, Hamilton's kicker had a career-ending neck injury. After that, I saw at least seven different players handle kick-offs, field goals and PATs (I didn't watch the entire game, as I had some things to do around the house). None of those seven players were the punter. The players that handled the kicks must not have high kick strength or accuracy ratings, as Hamilton's kicking for the rest of the game was miserable.

The players that handled the kickoffs were only able to squib short kicks that always went out of bounds (all kickoffs were to the right sideline -- same as punts). The post play 'commentary' would then report:

"The kickoff from was returned by /r."

After the out-of-bounds kick, the kicking team was rewarded with a first down at their own 35 yard line. ????

In the quarter-end statistics, the team screen for Hamilton showed the correct field goals statistics (2 of 6), but no statistics appeared in the offense screen -- the field goal area was completely blank.

The opposing team, which went 4 for 4 for field goals, showed a strange repetition on the offense statistic page. The same kicker was credited twice as 2 for 2 (i.e. "Ditchfield 2 of 2, Ditchfield 2 of 2,").

I had recorded the numbers of the players that had substituted as kicker, so after the end of the game, I went to the team details to see what were the normal positions of those players. Interestingly enough, there were no players with those numbers on the Hamilton roster. They must have been recruiting from the stands -- this might explain Hamilton's performance in the 2006 season [:D]. It probably also explains the previous problems where the kicker's name wasn't displayed.

In general, this is definitely a different game than the first releases. The defense is better on runs -- the sweeps and pitches no longer go for 5+ yards every carry. The passing game is more effective, but hitch and swing passes are still useless. I had seen very few punt returns go for more than a couple of yards in previous releases, and now big returns are occurring. This is all with the default Canadian playbook, which is probably not the best playbook in the world, but it is better than I probably could come up with.





fredirat -> RE: 1.3.84 Observations (11/13/2006 7:41:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MjH

"The kickoff from was returned by /r."

After the out-of-bounds kick, the kicking team was rewarded with a first down at their own 35 yard line. ????


I've seen this occasionally in situations where the kicker isn't injured. I think (but can't be 100% certain) that it only happens on the opening kick of the 2nd half. I've seen it twice, I think, over the course of around a dozen or so games. In my case, I'm using US rules and the kicking team get the ball at their own 30.

The substitution issue can be got round to some extent by manually adding the Punter to the depth chart for the formation, but you have to do it for each of your kicking formations




darrellb9 -> RE: 1.3.84 Observations (11/13/2006 10:29:35 PM)

In regards to punting out of bounds.

I play in coaching mode and everytime I punted the kick would go 11 yds and out of bounds. I happened to notice that the name on the back of the punter's jersey was QB and there was no number on the jersey. Next time I punted I looked at the punter's oval in the formation and noticed the number was a - and no player was assigned. I 'substituted' in my punter and my punts were suddenly normal again. Looks like maybe some sort of default player gets inserted if there is no punter assigned for the formation instead of a warning being given that you don't have a player assigned? Not sure why it wouldn't have used one of the other players on my roster rather than some sort of non-existent default player but that's what it appeared to do [:)]





George M -> RE: 1.3.84 Observations (11/14/2006 1:13:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MjH

"The kickoff from was returned by /r."

After the out-of-bounds kick, the kicking team was rewarded with a first down at their own 35 yard line. ????



I see this frequently while playing indoor games. Indoors, the kicking team gets the ball at its own 1 yard line.

Another kickoff oddity I've seen is that I will occasionally be asked to choose the wrong play type for a kickoff - I will be offered a kickoff play when I'm the returning team or vice versa. After choosing, the play proceeds normally. This may happen after the team who wins the opening coin flip elects to kickoff rather than receive, but I'm not sure that's the cause. In that particular case it won't necessarily be the opening kickoff choice that's wrong, but one or more subsequent ones.




MjH -> RE: 1.3.84 Observations (11/14/2006 1:16:22 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: fredirat
I've seen this occasionally in situations where the kicker isn't injured. I think (but can't be 100% certain) that it only happens on the opening kick of the 2nd half.


No, this wasn't just restricted to the kickoff at the opening of the half. It just so happened that this was a high-scoring game, so I got to watch more than a couple of kickoffs and it happened on all of them.

quote:

The substitution issue can be got round to some extent by manually adding the Punter to the depth chart for the formation, but you have to do it for each of your kicking formations


Yes, I know how to fix the depth chart. This was a computer vs. computer game, so there was no way for me to fix it at the time. I mentioned it in case the problem has not already been fixed by the changes to the depth chart that David indicated he made (in another thread).




fredirat -> RE: 1.3.84 Observations (11/14/2006 1:25:36 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MjH
No, this wasn't just restricted to the kickoff at the opening of the half. It just so happened that this was a high-scoring game, so I got to watch more than a couple of kickoffs and it happened on all of them.


In the cases I saw, there hadn't been an injury to the kicker on either team (at least, not one that was reported), so there's possibly some other problem that causes the wrong kicker to be selected.
Just trying to add as much info as possible about the use-cases in the hope it makes it easier for DW to track it down.




fredirat -> RE: 1.3.84 Observations (11/15/2006 8:12:33 AM)

The situation that causes the problem is as follows:

League game, playing v computer owned team.
Win toss & elect to receive. Computer team kicks off no problem.
At start of 3rd quarter, instead of being offered a Kick Off play, only offered a kick return play to select from (i.e. appears as though human owned team gets to receive in both halfs).
Teams take the field but human owned team kicks off (in spite of having selected a kick return). Kick is taken by one of the return team (presumably because those are the players in the selected play). Kick is short but out of bounds.
Human owned team then gets the ball at their own 30 yard line.

Appears as though the play calling screen at the start of the 2nd half incorrectly identifies the kicking team but, on the field, kicking team correctly identified.

This occurred several times - league is an 11 man US rules league




David Winter -> RE: 1.3.84 Observations (11/15/2006 8:19:32 AM)

Okay.. that looks like a good set of procedures to reproduce the bug and see what's going wrong.




fredirat -> RE: 1.3.84 Observations (11/15/2006 8:21:12 AM)

Thanks David
If you need any more info, let me know




David Winter -> RE: 1.3.84 Observations (11/15/2006 9:07:25 AM)

Okay.. I stepped through that process and yes, the incorrect team was kicking off. So that's been fixed and it will be in the next public beta (this is a recording).

I have not been able to reproduce the kick off out of bounds bug. After making the change, I have forced several kick offs out of bounds and they look to be processing the penalty correctly so I suspect that was due to the incorrect kicking team bug. It's something I'll keep and eye on. 




fredirat -> RE: 1.3.84 Observations (11/15/2006 9:09:12 AM)

Top man!
Looking forward to the next public beta




MitchG -> RE: 1.3.84 Observations (11/19/2006 9:42:21 PM)

I noticed the short punts out of bounds when I was playing with generated rosters as well. What I realized is that when the computer generates the rosters, 2 place kickers are generated and no punter. I went in and edit one of the kickers to a punter and have not had a problem with the short out of bounds punts.




David Winter -> RE: 1.3.84 Observations (11/19/2006 10:06:16 PM)

When you say this: "What I realized is that when the computer generates the rosters," is it in regards to the computer generating a quick game roster when there are currently no players on the roster at all?




garysorrell -> RE: 1.3.84 Observations (11/19/2006 10:43:13 PM)

I've noticed the teams dont have a punter when the rosters are generated in quick play.





David Winter -> RE: 1.3.84 Observations (11/19/2006 10:48:00 PM)

Okay.. It's likely something simple.




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