RE: Malaya Map (Full Version)

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Froonp -> RE: Malaya Map (11/16/2006 11:00:34 PM)

There is a coastline drawing error in Dutch New Guinea.
Top : Current coastlines.
Bottom : "Should have been" coastlines.

This is my fault. The PSD file I sent to Rob had this error. I thought I had corrected it before sending it, but obviously I didn't.

I put this into my "Missing Bits.txt" file, so that we don't forget to ask Rob to redo it.

[image]local://upfiles/10447/5745CE31592F41399E6A907A7D5A26C9.jpg[/image]



trees -> RE: Malaya Map (11/17/2006 5:30:15 AM)

Just for fun I'll probably set up an airbase for somebody in the Sulu archipelago, and yes, send the Enterprise over that way.

Although the Spratly Islands have had a fascinating recent history and could generate a lot of history in the future, they were not part of the Phillipines in WWII. They were claimed by the French from the Chinese (who disputed that) and then quietly taken from the Vichy French by the Japanese. What country to give them to in Sep/Oct '39 is a bit of a pickle really; probably the French would be most accurate. At the time they were so inconsequential that no power even protested when the Japanese took them. As the biggest island is only 46 hectacres with the others rapidly dwindling from there I'm not sure your average WiF counter full of men could fit on all the islands together, let alone stack more than a counter. No one playing MWiF will probably ever use that hex, but it is noticeable on the map to lump it with the Phillipines. The Paracel Islands have a similar Chinese/French/Japanese historical trajectory with the Japanese already there by Sep/Oct '39 I think but are much smaller and I would suggest leaving them off the map.



Froonp -> RE: Malaya Map (11/17/2006 8:58:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: trees
Although the Spratly Islands have had a fascinating recent history and could generate a lot of history in the future, they were not part of the Phillipines in WWII. They were claimed by the French from the Chinese (who disputed that) and then quietly taken from the Vichy French by the Japanese. What country to give them to in Sep/Oct '39 is a bit of a pickle really; probably the French would be most accurate. At the time they were so inconsequential that no power even protested when the Japanese took them. As the biggest island is only 46 hectacres with the others rapidly dwindling from there I'm not sure your average WiF counter full of men could fit on all the islands together, let alone stack more than a counter. No one playing MWiF will probably ever use that hex, but it is noticeable on the map to lump it with the Phillipines. The Paracel Islands have a similar Chinese/French/Japanese historical trajectory with the Japanese already there by Sep/Oct '39 I think but are much smaller and I would suggest leaving them off the map.

OK, what are the others' opinions with that one ?
Deleting them from the map can still be done, as we just have to correct the CSV data, even if the graphic exists, it will be ignored.



Peter Stauffenberg -> RE: Malaya Map (11/17/2006 10:50:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

A new map segment from Rob just arrived. Here's French-Indo China.

[image]local://upfiles/16701/978162717FF54E8BA104C62D90432DE5.jpg[/image]


These maps look great (as usual). :)

I just noticed that the port and railroad to Kwang-ngai is in the sea and not on the shore. Maybe this
should be fixed?



Froonp -> RE: Malaya Map (11/17/2006 11:05:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Borger Borgersen
I just noticed that the port and railroad to Kwang-ngai is in the sea and not on the shore. Maybe this
should be fixed?

I fixed a bunch of icons (Port & Cities) and labels positions already, and I sent the modifications to Steve. Unfortunately, as I do not have the coastline bitmaps on my copy of MWiF, I can only make a first pass, and I can't check if it is fixed for real or not.
I'll make a second pass anyway when I'll have the updated bitmaps.



Froonp -> RE: Malaya Map (11/17/2006 11:10:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
A new map segment from Rob just arrived. Here's French-Indo China.

[image]local://upfiles/16701/978162717FF54E8BA104C62D90432DE5.jpg[/image]

About this portion of the map, Wosung Steve and I decided that names in China should not have a dash in them, that is "Si-An" was renammed "Sian", etc...

So, I would have liked to ask Wosung if we should do the same for the rest of the South East Asia countries' names, for example here with Vien-tiane, Kwang-ngai, Sawng Kla (Malaya), or others.

Wosung ?



cockney -> RE: Malaya Map (11/17/2006 12:20:58 PM)

I don't think a dash between names would be useful Han-oi? Sai-gon?? Hong-Kong??? I think that living the names as single words is the better option.

Andy



wosung -> RE: Malaya Map (11/17/2006 3:56:54 PM)



[/quote]
About this portion of the map, Wosung Steve and I decided that names in China should not have a dash in them, that is "Si-An" was renammed "Sian", etc...

So, I would have liked to ask Wosung if we should do the same for the rest of the South East Asia countries' names, for example here with Vien-tiane, Kwang-ngai, Sawng Kla (Malaya), or others.

Wosung ?
[/quote]

You could write them "Vientiane", "Kwang Ngai", "Cam Ranh", and Singora (Sawng Kla).

I checked a few maps for that.

Vietnamese names most commonly are/were written in two syllables, although even this isn't consistent for the "-" in between.

As a simple rule, I would write South East Asian names in one word, except for when it's looking real strange ("Camranh"), or when too many consonants in a row make it hard to read ("Kwangngai").

Finally I assume for WW2 Sawng Kla is better known as Singora?! Please re-check the maps on this one.



Earl Uhtred -> RE: Malaya Map (11/17/2006 9:42:12 PM)

Nice.

I'm not that familiar with the area but shouldn't the Mekong delta be more marshy?

Consider adding Kuantan as a minor port on the east coast of Malaya.



Froonp -> RE: Malaya Map (11/18/2006 12:58:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Earl Uhtred
I'm not that familiar with the area but shouldn't the Mekong delta be more marshy?

Consider adding Kuantan as a minor port on the east coast of Malaya.

You're right, see the WiF FE original map below. I'm putting swamps.

About the port, there is no minor port on the eastern cost of Malaya on the WiF FE maps, so unless there is an important reason, I can't add one on the MWiF map.

[image]local://upfiles/10447/52C142088D314921AEFDF46B2CAACA6D.jpg[/image]



Froonp -> RE: Malaya Map (11/18/2006 1:00:22 AM)

Here's how I modified the Mekong delta :

[image]local://upfiles/10447/046DEB87097C4A08B27822A8387AE9A9.jpg[/image]



Earl Uhtred -> RE: Malaya Map (11/19/2006 2:29:13 PM)

Smart work.



ppglaf -> RE: Malaya Map (11/22/2006 2:01:33 PM)

Hi:

The resource in Hainan is not in the same hex as the Kiungchow port and there is no railroad. How can be delivered to a factory?



Froonp -> RE: Malaya Map (11/22/2006 2:42:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ppglaf
The resource in Hainan is not in the same hex as the Kiungchow port and there is no railroad. How can be delivered to a factory?

By Sea.
All coastal resources are able to be picked from the Sea, even if not in a port.



Mziln -> RE: Malaya Map (11/22/2006 5:39:30 PM)

[:D] I'm glad to see I'm not the only one to have missed that one [:D]



Froonp -> RE: Malaya Map (11/22/2006 7:26:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mziln

[:D] I'm glad to see I'm not the only one to have missed that one [:D]

No worries, we are all learning the game.



marcuswatney -> RE: Malaya Map (1/30/2008 5:15:43 PM)

Very impressed by the accuracy of the research on these difficult maps. There are some problems with the Burma/India border zone, but I'll tackle those later.

A few minor points:

Brunei was (and is - why do you think the Sultan is one of the richest men in the world?) a major oil producer. There is an interesting description of the demolition of the Brunei facilities in Woodburn Kirby. I recommend shifting the Tarakan oil hex to Brunei.

Malaya needs more resources and spread out: mostly rubber, which in those days was a significant strategic resource.

Bataan is the hex west of Manila.

Leyte-Samar needs a crossing arrow.

Ulithi is one of the largest anchorages in the world (it is an atoll not an island). It was used extensively by the USN towards the end of the war. So I suggest Ulithi be a port.

The Sarawak port is actually Kuching. What is shown as North Borneo on the map consisted of three provinces. From south to north: Sarawak, Brunei, North Borneo. Brunei was independent (one hex), but Sarawak and North Borneo were administered from Malaya.

I suggest that Manila be a two front port, only useable by the side that controls Bataan. This gives MacArthur the historical incentive to hole up in Bataan and Corregidor, and also gives him an incentive to reconquer the whole of the Philippines, not just be satisfied with Legaspi and Manila from the south.

No point, I suppose, mentioning that the game continues to promote the idea of Singapore being a fortress.



Froonp -> RE: Malaya Map (1/30/2008 5:50:14 PM)

I'll look deeper at your comments tonight, but you should know that all maps dated before summer / fall 2007 are not final. Those posted here are from november 2006, which is quite old. They changed a lot.

I'd love to post the updated maps here, but I'm limited to 200 kb per picture, this would take ages for me. Steve can upload more than that, so he uploads larger pieces in one time.



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Malaya Map (1/30/2008 6:38:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

I'll look deeper at your comments tonight, but you should know that all maps dated before summer / fall 2007 are not final. Those posted here are from november 2006, which is quite old. They changed a lot.

I'd love to post the updated maps here, but I'm limited to 200 kb per picture, this would take ages for me. Steve can upload more than that, so he uploads larger pieces in one time.

Tell me what you want. Or take the screen shots yourself and upload them to the server so I can download and post them. My limit is 500 KB and it is best to consider that 499 KB.



Froonp -> RE: Malaya Map (1/31/2008 1:12:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: marcuswatney

Very impressed by the accuracy of the research on these difficult maps. There are some problems with the Burma/India border zone, but I'll tackle those later.

Thanks. Can you say that again ? [:D]
I put a lot of research into that, and also bought half a dozen vintage 40s atlases.

quote:

A few minor points:
Brunei was (and is - why do you think the Sultan is one of the richest men in the world?) a major oil producer. There is an interesting description of the demolition of the Brunei facilities in Woodburn Kirby. I recommend shifting the Tarakan oil hex to Brunei.

I'm reluctant to change that, as it changes the game in removing 1 oil from the NEI and giving it to the CW (Brunei is CW controlled). I prefer leave it that way. Also Tarakan always was an oil resource in WiF history, we are used to it, and Balikpapan & Palembang, names of fame :-)

quote:

Malaya needs more resources and spread out: mostly rubber, which in those days was a significant strategic resource.

I would agree to spread them out, leaving them in the same area though, but how ?

quote:

Bataan is the hex west of Manila.

Already on the maps.

quote:

Leyte-Samar needs a crossing arrow.

No need for that, as Leyte & Samar share the same hex in one place, so you can go from one to the other as if there were no water in between (see upcoming screenshot from Steve).

quote:

Ulithi is one of the largest anchorages in the world (it is an atoll not an island). It was used extensively by the USN towards the end of the war. So I suggest Ulithi be a port.

As a great fan of the US Navy, I'm sorry that this one is missing from WiF, but it would change the game too much to make it the major port it was. Even making it a minor port changes the game. I would need the word of the designer to change that. The port of the area is Yap, just assume that some ships that are in Yap are in Ulithi.

quote:

The Sarawak port is actually Kuching. What is shown as North Borneo on the map consisted of three provinces. From south to north: Sarawak, Brunei, North Borneo. Brunei was independent (one hex), but Sarawak and North Borneo were administered from Malaya.

Already done, but spelled Kurching. I've corrected the error. You'll see the screenshot (with the error) that Steve should post sometime soon.

quote:

I suggest that Manila be a two front port, only useable by the side that controls Bataan. This gives MacArthur the historical incentive to hole up in Bataan and Corregidor, and also gives him an incentive to reconquer the whole of the Philippines, not just be satisfied with Legaspi and Manila from the south.

I suppose this one is way beyond what we can modify in MWiF from WiF. There are no port in WiF FE that are restricted that way. This would need new rules. Manila however is a 2 seazones ports. Also, it is not invadable from the sea, contrarily to WiF FE.



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Malaya Map (1/31/2008 1:25:50 AM)

Here are some quick screen shots of some of the areas you have been discussing (I chose these on my own, without imput from Patrice).

[image]local://upfiles/16701/D4A4DA45559046B49CE1652EBA375E8C.jpg[/image]



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Malaya Map (1/31/2008 1:26:59 AM)

Another.

[image]local://upfiles/16701/DFAE09AAB8CE41E7A4EC92AB1F4645AB.jpg[/image]



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Malaya Map (1/31/2008 1:27:58 AM)

Third in a set of 6.

[image]local://upfiles/16701/5780EE35BE074144B8C085970703613B.jpg[/image]



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Malaya Map (1/31/2008 1:30:35 AM)

4 in the set of 6. I did these all at zoom 5 which I believe shows enough detail. Higher zoom means less of an overview though.

[image]local://upfiles/16701/F7007ADCAC45477387F1064030DF33C4.jpg[/image]



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Malaya Map (1/31/2008 1:32:53 AM)

5th. All these have a slight overlap and proceed roughly counter-clockwise from the starting point (Calcutta).

[image]local://upfiles/16701/CDCC8FBB8BD1467C8F0BB2DE72CD1B98.jpg[/image]



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Malaya Map (1/31/2008 1:35:04 AM)

6th and last in the series. I apologize if some of these are in the wrong thread. I am a bit of a hurry to get other things done today.

[image]local://upfiles/16701/57DFEC136B734DFAA4A288585C061C08.jpg[/image]



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Malaya Map (1/31/2008 2:55:12 AM)

Patrice's screen shot.

[image]local://upfiles/16701/484E8E9F183E4768B946D9663D2506EA.jpg[/image]



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Malaya Map (1/31/2008 2:59:15 AM)

2nd of 4 from Patrice for this thread.

[image]local://upfiles/16701/D4368935E080473E8FBC8FEDF93E3327.jpg[/image]



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Malaya Map (1/31/2008 3:00:16 AM)

3rd of 4 from Patrice.

[image]local://upfiles/16701/C059628F7862435388A29952E7059A9E.jpg[/image]



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Malaya Map (1/31/2008 3:01:07 AM)

4th and last in series from Patrice.

[image]local://upfiles/16701/A37F569D08C74AB0B0BFDF24E8813E8F.jpg[/image]



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