Can this game be Saved? (Full Version)

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Greco, Thomas A -> Can this game be Saved? (12/8/2006 2:52:36 AM)

I am in a PBEM game as the allies using CHS Nikmod and 1.804. We have had major sync problems beginning immediately after 1.802. Now I have the following: remnent units from DEI and So Pac losses rebuilding in Darwin and Auckland have disappeared after reconstituting to about 20-30% strength and have reappeared in the replacement queue in San Francisco, Suez and in one case Chunking; now on the May 1 42 turn I lost almost all supply in Darwin, Derby and Broom. By lost, I mean it went from close to plus 25K to red without upgrading a single plane, without increasing the strength of any unit, or increasing the supply level of any other base on the limited road network between them.
This is a pretty good game with an able opponent and a restart would give away too much strategy. I would like to save the game, but it is getting increasingly harder to live with the problems. Any thoughts?



Sardaukar -> RE: Can this game be Saved? (12/8/2006 2:49:16 PM)

Sounds bad...

But I have to ask, were those units marked with "/1" or "/2" for example behind their names ? That means they were not parent units and not egilible to rebuild. That might explain their dissapearance and reappearance in reinforcement bases. Fragment units (/1, /2, etc.) do not rebuild, I think.



rtrapasso -> RE: Can this game be Saved? (12/8/2006 2:57:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

Sounds bad...

But I have to ask, were those units marked with "/1" or "/2" for example behind their names ? That means they were not parent units and not egilible to rebuild. That might explain their dissapearance and reappearance in reinforcement bases. Fragment units (/1, /2, etc.) do not rebuild, I think.




They can receive reinforcements (at least in my games they have) - and they shouldn't disappear unless something very new and different was implemented in the latest patches.

Units CAN disappear (through bug) if the parent unit is destroyed at sea on a transport*, or if you try moving the parent fragment by air (or at least in the past this happens) - but they should NOT reappear as reinforcements (on the list) unless they are HQ units.

* i.e. - A unit has fragments in bases on land, but parent fragment is being transported by ship, and the ship is torpedoed and the parent fragment is lost. All fragments will then vanish, including the ones on land - or at least in patches prior to 1.8 they have behaved this way. This can be a real pain if you are transporting an entire division, and the one ship carrying the parent fragment is torpedoed. Suddenly, there are a bunch of ships carrying no troops anymore... [X(]



Sardaukar -> RE: Can this game be Saved? (12/8/2006 3:41:16 PM)

I was thinking that do LCU fragments dissappear if their parent units are destroyed in land combat ? Was thinking that maybe units were put into Reinforcement Schedule when destroyed and then when appearing the fragments dissappeared/teleported/recombined etc...
But does sound bit like but, what's happening to Greco.



rtrapasso -> RE: Can this game be Saved? (12/8/2006 3:57:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

I was thinking that do LCU fragments dissappear if their parent units are destroyed in land combat ? Was thinking that maybe units were put into Reinforcement Schedule when destroyed and then when appearing the fragments dissappeared/teleported/recombined etc...
But does sound bit like but, what's happening to Greco.



Well, iirc, they didn't USED to disappear if the parent fragment was destroyed - the unit with the largest support would be new parent unit (and be redesignated as such) - otherwise, you wouldn't hear complaints about "cadres" being evacuated.




TommyG -> RE: Can this game be Saved? (12/8/2006 5:29:16 PM)

These were cadre evacuations from Singapore and Suva before they fell. They became parent units when the original unit was destroyed and they lost the /1 designations. I shut off most other reinforcements so they were getting most of the replacements and were rebuilding quickly until they just disappeared.



rtrapasso -> RE: Can this game be Saved? (12/8/2006 6:25:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TommyG

These were cadre evacuations from Singapore and Suva before they fell. They became parent units when the original unit was destroyed and they lost the /1 designations. I shut off most other reinforcements so they were getting most of the replacements and were rebuilding quickly until they just disappeared.



Were they combat units or HQ units or what?



TommyG -> RE: Can this game be Saved? (12/8/2006 6:53:11 PM)

a mix of US and British Inf, CD and AA, including 2 RCTs. No Dutch or Aus units were effected.



rtrapasso -> RE: Can this game be Saved? (12/8/2006 6:58:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TommyG

a mix of US and British Inf, CD and AA, including 2 RCTs. No Dutch or Aus units were effected.


This looks weird to me - maybe they've done something with the latest patch, but i don't think this should be happening.

If they are in place, units shouldn't be stuck back into the reinforcement queue. If they are somehow destroyed, they shouldn't be stuck back into the reinforcement queue (unless they are HQs).

i haven't tried starting a *new* game under the newer patches, so maybe something is going on in the new patch(es) that i don't know about... but this seems seriously, uh, deranged...



niceguy2005 -> RE: Can this game be Saved? (12/8/2006 7:38:49 PM)

I you are having serious problems after an upgrade, it's about 99.3% likely your game didn't follow the correct upgrade proceedure.

Not upgrading properly cause all sorts of things to go wonky. The only fix is to back up to a save right before the upgrade and follow the upgrade proceedure.



Greco, Thomas A -> RE: Can this game be Saved? (12/8/2006 11:27:32 PM)

Are my problems the kind of problems that would happen if I did not upgrade properly? My opponent is not having any problems ( or at least he doesn't whine about them like I do). I am not having problems in my original games, only in CHS. Is that consistent with an improper upgrade?



niceguy2005 -> RE: Can this game be Saved? (12/9/2006 12:53:36 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Greco, Thomas A

Are my problems the kind of problems that would happen if I did not upgrade properly? My opponent is not having any problems ( or at least he doesn't whine about them like I do). I am not having problems in my original games, only in CHS. Is that consistent with an improper upgrade?

I don't play CHS, but the fact that it happened right after you upgraded is a huge clue. If the game seemed to be working before and now it is not. My first suggestion would be to start a thread asking specifically about these problems with CHS. Perhaps it is a known bug with that mod, though I can't really see how that could be.

You mention that you have major synch problems, by this assume you mean that what the allied player sees is different from what the Japanese player sees. I use the word see specifically because the synch problem only affects the reply, not the actual state of the units the following turn. It is very annoying for the allied player, but one work around is for the Japanese player to send him his CR and using that to work from. The Japanese player will be unaware of a synch problem sinse what he sees is what happened in the game.

There used to be serious problems with unit fragments. Most of these were fixed with the latest two patches and what you describe doesn't precisely fit any bug I have ever heard of. There used to be a teleport bug where units went from one hex to another, but I have never heard of unit fragements showing up in reinforcement pools of other nations.

I have heard of odd occurances with supply. I assume that you checked your other bases on Oz and the supplies didn't go there. With OZ being connected with rail lines (at least it is in stock) supply can move around a lot. If you had a bunch of units suddenly arrive in Sydney or something the supply could be there, or if someone shelled one of your reports repairs could have sucked it up. Supply on continents does move around on its own. With OZ you really need a surplus for the country as a whole to make sure that any given base will have enough.

In considering if this is a problem do to upgrades remember that running a turn under one version and then under another is like running it under two different programs. It would be really hard to predict what sorts of things could happen.



TommyG -> RE: Can this game be Saved? (12/9/2006 6:27:12 AM)

That was helpful, thanks



Sardaukar -> RE: Can this game be Saved? (12/9/2006 1:54:04 PM)

I think that game has not been upgraded properly, indeed. CHS should not cause that sort of problems compared to stock. Upgrading PBEM games is precarious business sometimes.



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