RE: Boxed Copies and More Good News

RE: Boxed Copies and More Good News (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [American Civil War] >> Forge of Freedom: The American Civil War 1861-1865

Message

Erik Rutins -> RE: Boxed Copies and More Good News (12/9/2006 6:42:47 PM)
XLegion, quote: ORIGINAL: XLegion Well. I am very sorry to hear that because I was loyal to Matrix Games by purchasing their digital download of "Forge of Freedom" I am now to be punished by NOT being able to purchase a printed manual for it. This is outrageous, especially in a game with such a steep learning curve. This may very well be my last Matrix game. An unhappy You know, I understand how it may feel like you're being punished, but that's absolutely wrong. From my side, I feel like we're being punished for doing the best we can to help our customers. Let me review a few key points for those who are upset with us: 1. We did not know, a few days ago, that we would be able to have a printed manual with FoF. We did know that it would happen for 2007, but weren't sure we could do it for the Christmas 2006 season. 2. We heard our customers' requests and worked for months to make printed manuals a possibility. Then, we worked even harder to be able to offer them to you without _any_ increase in price. In fact, we are offering them for a penny less, with nothing else changed in the boxed copy package. 3. When we learned that it would be possible, we decided that we should go ahead with it. Why? Not to punish those who had already bought FoF, but to make it possible for those that had not to get the printed manual. Would you all rather we had waited for another month, until everyone had bought their boxed copy and then announced it? Please re-read point #1 regarding what we knew and when we knew it. 4. We knew some who had already bought the digital download and would have bought the boxed copy instead _if it had a manual_ would be disappointed. We tried to come up with a solution but there's simply no way right now for us to do this with our store software. This and the physical "upgrade" are now our top priorities in terms of store upgrades. With all this said, we are _still_ listening to our customers and if we can find a way to make the manual available separately, we will. Please realize you are not being punished. You still have the game you bought at the digital download price, you have everything you paid for. I'm sorry we were not able to offer this earlier or even know that it would be coming, but review the points above and tell me how we could have done this differently? Regards, - Erik

Erik Rutins -> RE: Boxed Copies and More Good News (12/9/2006 6:47:10 PM)
Slick91, quote: ORIGINAL: Slick91 This is my 8th Matrix purchase and this time I have to admit; I do feel a bit screwed in purchasing FoF. First, I noticed the file size after the purchase and now I can’t burn it on to my CD-R (my fault for not paying attention to the file size before I hit the Buy button). And now I read that for $10 more I could have had a cd AND a printed manual. Please see my reply to XLegion as well. Also, on your earlier question, the manual will be printed in black and white, not color. Regarding burning your CD to disk, I believe there are CD-Rs that can fit that much, thought they're not the usual budget kind. If not, we'll make an installer available in two parts that download customers can burn to two CDs. quote: I think I understand why it’s logistically impossible to have extra manuals printed and available to buy in your Merchandise section, or via dedicated email request with a valid serial number, at what ever price + shipping & handling? Why, because I think it comes down to the fact that nobody wants to be bothered coming up with a way to get manuals to those who purchased the game via download. It might actually mean that somebody has to get up, walk across the room, put the manual in a box, and ship it out. It's not at all a matter of "being bothered". All of this happens on DR's back-end and until they have the capability to pull out a previous order and use it to create an "add manual" option, there's nothing we can do. Even though we want this and you want it. As far as trying to come up with a one-time stop gap measure in this case that's strictly handled on our side, we will certainly be discussing that. Our goal is not to tick off our customers - frankly, we thought there would be a LOT more happy than unhappy people over this announcement. The backlash has caught us a bit off guard. If we can find a way to affordably get extra manuals printed and come up with a fulfillment process, we will. Regards, - Erik

Moltke71 -> RE: Boxed Copies and More Good News (12/9/2006 6:48:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hertston quote: ORIGINAL: Bismarck What I do is just print out those parts necessary for play. I am tempted to ask quite what is the purpose of the bits, bar the installation instructions and the epilepsy warnings, that aren't necessary to play! [;)] Oh, a little bit of history , explanation of design decisions and insights into features are always nice.

Erik Rutins -> RE: Boxed Copies and More Good News (12/9/2006 6:48:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Slick91 For me, that is my point. I don't have a DVD burner. And, if the manual is printed in color vs black & white, its a HUGE deal to me. The cost of printing that monster manual out in color and a local store would be hundres of dollars (>$1.00 per page). If its printed in B&W, then I won't feel so screwed. You see, its all about me... It's black and white and even with that it took a tremendous amount of haggling for us to add it to the physical copies while reducing the price by a penny. Regards, - Erik

Great_Ajax -> RE: Boxed Copies and More Good News (12/9/2006 6:56:40 PM)
Well I for one would like to thank Matrix Games for its tremendous support. You go to other game company forums and you just will not see this kind of interaction between the company and its customers. I have seen Erik, David, and Marc all over these forums and I think it is amazing. Matrix is becoming my home for gaming lately it seems. I browse the forums everyday and I always have my eye on some product that that is in the works. So I would like to say thanks for the Matrix Team for supporting these smaller companies and developers who put out these great games like Forge of Freedom. Trey

LitFuel -> RE: Boxed Copies and More Good News (12/9/2006 7:08:56 PM)
Good Grief!!!...come on guys this is great news...This changes allot for me as I was turned off to Matrix games by having to print my own manual(get's expensive when you use your printer for other things as well). I for one want to thank you guys for stepping up with this.

ravinhood -> RE: Boxed Copies and More Good News (12/9/2006 7:14:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marc Schwanebeck quote: ORIGINAL: Curious When you say "including printed manual" what else is included? I assume that this "Game On Demand" deal doesn't include a cd since it's only $9.99. What does "Game On Demand" include? CB That is on top of the download price: FOF as an example: - Digital Download = 49.99$ - Physical Shipment = 59.99$ (Box, CD, Manual) - Physical Shipment + Digital Download = 59.99$ (Box, CD, Manual and you can download instantly too) That is excellent news Marc. I'm glad my bitchin finally paid off. ;) (Or got ME what I wanted at least) See, works with Matrixgames just like it does with McDonalds and Walmarts....I'm always right and I always gets what I want....eventually. lol To me the $10 extra is now worth it for the cd/manual. You're providing me a service I wanted and don't force me to use a sorry PDF (FILE). I'm gonna start tellin everyone now again about Matrixgames. I won the war, but, it was a long fought battle. hehe

Slick91 -> RE: Boxed Copies and More Good News (12/9/2006 7:22:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins Slick91, quote: ORIGINAL: Slick91 This is my 8th Matrix purchase and this time I have to admit; I do feel a bit screwed in purchasing FoF. First, I noticed the file size after the purchase and now I can’t burn it on to my CD-R (my fault for not paying attention to the file size before I hit the Buy button). And now I read that for $10 more I could have had a cd AND a printed manual. Please see my reply to XLegion as well. Also, on your earlier question, the manual will be printed in black and white, not color. Regarding burning your CD to disk, I believe there are CD-Rs that can fit that much, thought they're not the usual budget kind. If not, we'll make an installer available in two parts that download customers can burn to two CDs. quote: I think I understand why it’s logistically impossible to have extra manuals printed and available to buy in your Merchandise section, or via dedicated email request with a valid serial number, at what ever price + shipping & handling? Why, because I think it comes down to the fact that nobody wants to be bothered coming up with a way to get manuals to those who purchased the game via download. It might actually mean that somebody has to get up, walk across the room, put the manual in a box, and ship it out. It's not at all a matter of "being bothered". All of this happens on DR's back-end and until they have the capability to pull out a previous order and use it to create an "add manual" option, there's nothing we can do. Even though we want this and you want it. As far as trying to come up with a one-time stop gap measure in this case that's strictly handled on our side, we will certainly be discussing that. Our goal is not to tick off our customers - frankly, we thought there would be a LOT more happy than unhappy people over this announcement. The backlash has caught us a bit off guard. If we can find a way to affordably get extra manuals printed and come up with a fulfillment process, we will. Regards, - Erik The fact that the printed manual is in black and white makes me feel better about the situation. Loosing out on a colored manual would really have made me upset. Having a two file download option is a very good idea because you can’t find 800+ meg cds easily. I’ll take this as a lessoned learned and I hope that Matrix does the same. From now on, I’ll gladly wait until the boxed version is available to see what my options are. AND, I hope that Matrix takes this episode into consideration for future releases. Just a note on the order screen would be nice. Nowhere on any of your game’s order screens does Matrix note what’s included in the boxed version. If the manual status was unknown, you should have waited for the release. That would have been a better business decision. This time, this was a bad call on someone’s end in my opinion. “Go ahead and release the download, we’ll end up screwing a few people out of the manual, but it can’t be helped” is poor business when you’re only talking a week’s delay. I’ve been very satisfied with my Matrix games so far, and I know I’ll enjoy FoF. I’ll in all probability buy other games from Matrix. If you can just add a simple note what’s included in the boxed version I think that would go a long way in shutting up a lot of people. I thank you for your time. [steps down off of soap box]

Erik Rutins -> RE: Boxed Copies and More Good News (12/9/2006 7:29:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Slick91 I’ll take this as a lessoned learned and I hope that Matrix does the same. From now on, I’ll gladly wait until the boxed version is available to see what my options are. AND, I hope that Matrix takes this episode into consideration for future releases. I think you can count on that. quote: Just a note on the order screen would be nice. Nowhere on any of your game’s order screens does Matrix note what’s included in the boxed version. If the manual status was unknown, you should have waited for the release. That would have been a better business decision. This time, this was a bad call on someone’s end in my opinion. “Go ahead and release the download, we’ll end up screw some people out of the manual, but it can’t be helped” is poor business when you’re only talking a week’s delay. Well, we didn't know at the time that the release decision was made that the manual would be part of this release, so that type of conversation definitely never happened. It was only after the download had been released that it become possible that it could roll out quickly enough. Before yesterday, it still looked unlikely that it would all work out (given that this boxed copy had to be finished in time for Christmas purchases), but then a few obstacles moved and we finally knew it was going to happen. Ultimately, the game and support are the same whether you bought the download or the boxed copy. We did also say from the beginning that the boxed copy would be a week or more away and that there would be no upgrade option for those who choose to do the early download (another store limitation we're trying to solve). Since we didn't think at the time that the manual would be in for this boxed version, there was really nothing else that we could say. quote: I’ve been very satisfied with my Matrix games so far, and I know I’ll enjoy FoF. I’ll in all probability buy other games from Matrix. If you can just add a simple note what’s included in the boxed version I think that would go a long way in shutting up a lot of people. Thanks, I'm very glad that you've been happy with your purchases and we'll make some adjustments to make sure we keep you all better informed. Regards, - Erik

Marc von Martial -> RE: Boxed Copies and More Good News (12/9/2006 7:33:49 PM)
quote: I’ll take this as a lessoned learned and I hope that Matrix does the same. From now on, I’ll gladly wait until the boxed version is available to see what my options are. AND, I hope that Matrix takes this episode into consideration for future releases. It is very easy, from now on every new release will have the manual. Old releases will be adjusted over time and seperatly announced. quote: Just a note on the order screen would be nice. Nowhere on any of your game’s order screens does Matrix note what’s included in the boxed version. From the frontpage of the store: "What is a Digital Download? Our Digital Download service sends you a download link to the master game file once your order is complete. You can use this link to download the game directly to your computer over the internet and start playing right away. The download is available to you for thirty days after your order. No shipping is involved and the game is immediately available for you once the order is complete. What is a Physical Shipment? If all you want is a copy of the game without any digital download, select this choice. If you select "Physical Shipment" you will be billed to have the game shipped to you. Our Physical Shipment provides you with a printed CD with your serial number enclosed in a printed DVD case. The Best of Both Worlds Digital Downloads and Physical Shipment! When you select this option you can use our digital download option to get the game right away and start playing. Then have a boxed copy of the game shipped to you as a backup for permanent storage. With a backup, you'll be prepared for whatever comes your way-whether it's a system crash, a computer virus damaging your files or the software simply no longer functioning as it should. You will be billed to have the game shipped in a printed DVD box with a printed CD and your serial number." quote: If the manual status was unknown, you should have waited for the release. That would have been a better business decision. It is a no win situation for us. Waiting would have ended in other people that just wanted the game to be released marching up our houses and tar and feather us for simply waiting. also, we could not have predicted when the service would eventually start. So we would have had to say people, sorry the game is ready to be sold, but we need to wait an unpredictable time for a new service we will introduce. I'm sure this would have made everybody happy [;)] We can do what we want , there is always people that feel cheated, ripped of or whatnot. People should be really happy we finally made all this possible, but of course, it is, as always, not good enough.

ravinhood -> RE: Boxed Copies and More Good News (12/9/2006 7:58:40 PM)
Hey Marc I just went to the store to order the physical and direct editon, but, all they have listed is digital download....ummm how much longer before the physical portion is added by DR? EDIT: NM I found out it's next week.....didn't read the fine print in the first post...sorry. ;)

XLegion -> RE: Boxed Copies and More Good News (12/9/2006 9:53:16 PM)
I am in agreement with slick91. I DID get the manual printed out for War in the Pacific and it cost about $40. I'm not about to do the same for "Forge of Freedom". Yes, I have learned my lesson with MATRIX. I will NEVER purchase their products again as soon as they come out. Wait, wait wait. This way you will not get burned. As for the fellow that can't understand 'my attitude'. I can't understand his. I paid top dollar for the game when it came out. What did I get? A file. That is all. I had to burn it to a dvd and have no box or manual. How do you think we feel for those who waited about a week or so and will now get the boxed edition with a manual cheaper than I paid. Man, if you can't understand that, I don't know where you are coming from. I have now been at the game for about a week now and am beginning to realize it isn't 'my cup of tea' anyway. I mean, the city of Richmond isn't even a name point. And what's with all those crazy forts all over the board that never existed and you can change their names? Why not get the names correct in the first place? I don't like the 'abstact maps' either. I know you have to allow something for 'area' style maps but having Fortress Monroe NORTH EAST of Richmond when it is SOUTHEAST is ridiculous. xlegion

Erik Rutins -> RE: Boxed Copies and More Good News (12/9/2006 11:29:30 PM)
XLegion, quote: ORIGINAL: XLegion I paid top dollar for the game when it came out. What did I get? A file. That is all. I had to burn it to a dvd and have no box or manual. How do you think we feel for those who waited about a week or so and will now get the boxed edition with a manual cheaper than I paid. I'm a little confused by this. You paid the digital download price and got the digital download. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's working fine for you and you're enjoying the game, right? We said at the time that if you order the download, you can't later upgrade to the boxed copy. So, you order it, you got it, you are playing it. Some other folks waited and have not yet played the game as they wanted the boxed copy. Fortunately, it turned out we could add the printed manual, for the first time ever, to our boxed copies. This is a one time event - assuming that every one of our releases will have a new surprise like that would not be a safe bet. However, what really confuses me is this part: quote: will now get the boxed edition with a manual cheaper than I paid. How is it cheaper? You paid $49.99 (or equivalent) for the download version. People who order the boxed copy once it's available next week will pay $49.99 + $9.99 for a total of $59.98 in order to get the boxed game with manual two weeks after it was available for download at $9.99 cheaper. If you don't like the game, then I'm sorry you're disappointed - but I would expect that in that case you'd be glad you didn't wait and spend $9.99 extra to get the boxed copy. Regards, - Erik

TheHellPatrol -> RE: Boxed Copies and More Good News (12/9/2006 11:35:21 PM)
[&:]Here's a question for you then: I bought the digital download for $49.99 from Matrix Games. I then bought/pre-ordered a CD-Rom Version for another $49.99, plus $6.99 Priority Mail shipping, from Chris at NWSONLINE. Is he going to have the game with manual version? Or just a cd in a sleeve?

tsimmonds -> RE: Boxed Copies and More Good News (12/9/2006 11:58:41 PM)
Glad to have the game. Very disappointed that I bought it 24 hours too soon to get a free manual. Lesson learned: next time, wait longer before buying game. <shrug>

TheHellPatrol -> RE: Boxed Copies and More Good News (12/10/2006 12:15:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHellPatrol [&:]Here's a question for you then: I bought the digital download for $49.99 from Matrix Games. I then bought/pre-ordered a CD-Rom Version for another $49.99, plus $6.99 Priority Mail shipping, from Chris at NWSONLINE. Is he going to have the game with manual version? Or just a cd in a sleeve? BUMP...

willgamer -> RE: Boxed Copies and More Good News (12/10/2006 1:23:07 AM)
[:D] Fabulous news! Thank you all so much; hope this sells many more copies. To your detractors: You all sound emotionally overwrought and utterly illogical. Not a one of you has any valid complaint whatsoever. You entered into a transaction that was fully disclosed by your own free will. You received everything that you bargained for. You would lead us to believe that nothing ever went on sale, or declined in price (i.e. cpu's [X(] ) after you bought them. On the other hand, if Digital River suddenly raised their d/l prices after you bought, would you cry a river for those who bought at a higher price than you? [:-] Shame on your silly whining over a vendor who creates more value at a better price! IMHO everyone, including those who already bought, should applaud an honest vendor making every effort to please customers. [&o]

Curious -> RE: Boxed Copies and More Good News (12/10/2006 1:25:19 AM)
This certainly seems to have been a learning experience for almost everyone involved. I obviously can't speak for Matrix, but as a customer I've learned not to buy until it's an absolute certainty that what I'm buying includes a printed copy of the game's manual or that a manual can be purchased as a stand-alone item at a later date for a nominal price. Lesson taken. CB

WYBaugh -> RE: Boxed Copies and More Good News (12/10/2006 1:43:08 AM)
Sorry for continuing the beating of the proverbial horse but I feel the touchy issue lies in the information being disclosed post release and folks having to pay Kinko's et al much more than $9.99 for a printed manual. Matrix would have had to know the reaction that this news would bring and possibly should have prepared an alternative for us download customers? I do feel that Matrix should allow users who purchased the download prior to this announcement the ability to purchase a manual for the $9.99 at some point in the near future. If it is prohibitive for DR to setup a manual purchase link then how about a link through our member login (members should be identifiable by registration of FoF) allowing us to purchase a manual and pay through PayPal? It really should not be that difficult for a user to purchase a manual. Bill

JudgeDredd -> RE: Boxed Copies and More Good News (12/10/2006 2:00:01 AM)
Well, Matrix, I do feel burned....especially seeing as I have been very vocal about printed manuals. However, it is not your fault that I am burned....it was my enthusiasm and desire to have the game on release. I wish I had not had such a desire or enthusiasm...I could be reading the manual in a week. But as I said, the fact I do not have a printed manual is not your fault...and I am VERY glad that printed manuals will be a feature in the future. Of course, for me at least, it means I will not be buying your products on release...I never used to get the boxed version...there was no need (why wait when you can download it and burn it yourself)...but a printed manual...completely different kettle of fish. That absolutely makes waiting for the boxed version a must!! Thank you...at last I can have a manual!!

JudgeDredd -> RE: Boxed Copies and More Good News (12/10/2006 2:02:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willgamer [:D] Fabulous news! Thank you all so much; hope this sells many more copies. To your detractors: You all sound emotionally overwrought and utterly illogical. Not a one of you has any valid complaint whatsoever. You entered into a transaction that was fully disclosed by your own free will. You received everything that you bargained for. You would lead us to believe that nothing ever went on sale, or declined in price (i.e. cpu's [X(] ) after you bought them. On the other hand, if Digital River suddenly raised their d/l prices after you bought, would you cry a river for those who bought at a higher price than you? [:-] Shame on your silly whining over a vendor who creates more value at a better price! IMHO everyone, including those who already bought, should applaud an honest vendor making every effort to please customers. [&o] By the way...unlike some people [8\|], I can see both sides...

Curious -> RE: Boxed Copies and More Good News (12/10/2006 2:11:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willgamer [:D] Fabulous news! Thank you all so much; hope this sells many more copies. To your detractors: You all sound emotionally overwrought and utterly illogical. Not a one of you has any valid complaint whatsoever. You entered into a transaction that was fully disclosed by your own free will. You received everything that you bargained for. You would lead us to believe that nothing ever went on sale, or declined in price (i.e. cpu's [X(] ) after you bought them. On the other hand, if Digital River suddenly raised their d/l prices after you bought, would you cry a river for those who bought at a higher price than you? [:-] Shame on your silly whining over a vendor who creates more value at a better price! IMHO everyone, including those who already bought, should applaud an honest vendor making every effort to please customers. [&o] Now you've gone and done it. You've maliciously and arrogantly characterized the "detractors" as being excessively overexcited ("emotionally overwrought"), stupid ("utterly illogical"), and foolish and witless ("silly"). I find your attitude to be egregiously offensive. The discussion in this thread was relatively civil and well-mannered until your post. You should be ashamed. CB

freeboy -> RE: Boxed Copies and More Good News (12/10/2006 2:58:04 AM)
So, we have the option of adding a physical shipment in the store.. if I pay an extra 9.99... this is so incredibley fubar.. is what you are saying now that I can not get a physical copy? or that I can get only a dr disk physical copy? very odd .. I went to the store with my order number and it showed this as an option.. lets try it again today.. perplexed[:-]

Sheytan -> RE: Boxed Copies and More Good News (12/10/2006 3:04:00 AM)
AHAAHAH!!!!!! too funny, everyone was burning the fort down wanting the game NOW to get the DL...they released it to please us, now people fuss over a manual :} BUWHAAAAAAAAAAA! seriously...

freeboy -> RE: Boxed Copies and More Good News (12/10/2006 3:17:27 AM)
ok, it is cd on demand.. not physical copy too true... I think that to offer the digital download as a special and then another physical is too odd, that is to say you are offering cd backup plus a boxed copy.. two copletely seperate things or just different words? I have to say that I am pqued that I could have waited and done download and recieved the boxed copy, if that is actually what you are saying .. for 60.00.. whatever.. it is a great game.. tar or no tar hehe

Erik Rutins -> RE: Boxed Copies and More Good News (12/10/2006 6:33:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHellPatrol [&:]Here's a question for you then: I bought the digital download for $49.99 from Matrix Games. I then bought/pre-ordered a CD-Rom Version for another $49.99, plus $6.99 Priority Mail shipping, from Chris at NWSONLINE. Is he going to have the game with manual version? Or just a cd in a sleeve? He should have the version with the manual, AFAIK that's the only one that will be printed and sent out.

Erik Rutins -> RE: Boxed Copies and More Good News (12/10/2006 6:34:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: irrelevant Glad to have the game. Very disappointed that I bought it 24 hours too soon to get a free manual. Lesson learned: next time, wait longer before buying game. <shrug> It won't be available until next week and then will be part of the additional $9.99 you pay for a boxed copy.

TheHellPatrol -> RE: Boxed Copies and More Good News (12/10/2006 6:59:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins quote: ORIGINAL: TheHellPatrol [&:]Here's a question for you then: I bought the digital download for $49.99 from Matrix Games. I then bought/pre-ordered a CD-Rom Version for another $49.99, plus $6.99 Priority Mail shipping, from Chris at NWSONLINE. Is he going to have the game with manual version? Or just a cd in a sleeve? He should have the version with the manual, AFAIK that's the only one that will be printed and sent out. [:D]Awesome...thanks!

David Heath -> RE: Boxed Copies and More Good News (12/10/2006 7:08:16 AM)
Hi Freeboy The CD backup copy should not be available and God willing will be taken down by DR on Monday. The Game On Demand was the CD and DVD box version. Now guys I am do my best to see what I can do for you all. Let me first say that Matrix has release over 40+ games now and everyone of them has been handled in the same matter. Download first, box version shortly after release and it cost $10.00 more. This release was planned to be handled the same way but changed so we could offer printed manuals. We did not change things just to upset our customers but to try and give them what they wanted. Now I know a lot of you claimed you would order a manual or the Game On Demand if possible so I going to make even a bigger push for at least a one time option to customers who order the download version but now want to upgrade to a Game On Demand version. Let me make this CLEAR. I am promising nothing except I am going to work on this first thing Monday morning. Oh... I like my tar warm not to hot please. <g> David Heath Matrix Games

Curious -> RE: Boxed Copies and More Good News (12/10/2006 7:20:43 AM)
Thanks for sticking with us -- even when we fuss (a little). CB

Page: << < prev 1 [2] 3 next > >>

Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.640625