Technology Upgrades (Full Version)

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TimoN -> Technology Upgrades (12/12/2006 12:58:09 AM)

I would like to know what benefits for Quick Combat these actually mean in the upgrades:

Odds/QC Salvo bonus
25% +1 inf

What odds are those? 25% odds that infantry brigade gains +1 bonus to salvo value before the quick combat begins?





Malagant -> RE: Technology Upgrades (12/12/2006 1:00:34 AM)

I had interpreted that to mean the Infantry brigade gets a 25% damage bonus in Detailed Combat, and a +1 in Quick Combat



Gil R. -> RE: Technology Upgrades (12/12/2006 3:20:37 AM)

It means that in QC your infantry brigades have a 25% chance to get a +1 to their salvo (and/or counter-salvo).



TimoN -> RE: Technology Upgrades (12/12/2006 2:12:31 PM)

Thank you for explaining it.

I have one question more. Manual appendix page 207:

Artillery Training 25% +1 inf.
Cavalry Training 25% +1 inf.

Shouldn't they be +1 art and +1 cav respectively?



ericbabe -> RE: Technology Upgrades (12/12/2006 10:55:33 PM)

Ooops, yes.  I'll add to the errata.  Thanks for catching this.



Roger Neilson II -> RE: Technology Upgrades (12/13/2006 12:16:04 AM)

Are the upgrades rather rapid? I have gotten into late 83 and there seem to be a lot of upgrades happening and very fast? I'm used to a slower pace of R&D in WITP......

Roger



Gil R. -> RE: Technology Upgrades (12/13/2006 3:08:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Roger Neilson II

Are the upgrades rather rapid? I have gotten into late 83 and there seem to be a lot of upgrades happening and very fast? I'm used to a slower pace of R&D in WITP......

Roger


How many research institutions do you have, and how much help are you getting from governors and Europe? You're only getting rapid upgrades if your base research has been significantly boosted.



Roger Neilson II -> RE: Technology Upgrades (12/13/2006 8:01:08 AM)

I cannot quote figures as I haven't noted these things down, but as Union I am spending a load on keeping the Europeans sweet - yet they still seem to be sending loads of stuff to the CSA - have done little or nothing to raise any infrastructure in any states - money remaining has gone on getting decent guns for my units and raising more troops, and I'm ignoring the Governors....yet every two weeks I get at least one upgrade, sometimes two.... and the effect seems to be immediate. I'm questioning the rapidity and spread of upgrades....

Roger



Mike Scholl -> RE: Technology Upgrades (12/13/2006 2:29:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gil R.

It means that in QC your infantry brigades have a 25% chance to get a +1 to their salvo (and/or counter-salvo).



Just for the sake of correctness, Infantry Brigades fire "Volleys"..., Artillery fires "Salvos".



elmo3 -> RE: Technology Upgrades (12/13/2006 3:42:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gil R.

It means that in QC your infantry brigades have a 25% chance to get a +1 to their salvo (and/or counter-salvo).



Just for the sake of correctness, Infantry Brigades fire "Volleys"..., Artillery fires "Salvos".



I've heard of artillery firing barrages but not salvos. I think ships fire salvos.



Gil R. -> RE: Technology Upgrades (12/13/2006 6:36:30 PM)

You guys are right about salvo, etc., of course.

Roger, it's hard for me to tell what's going on, but I'm not sure anything abnormal is happening. When you go to the City Details screen and see the yellow research light bulbs on the left there will be numbers showing your rate of research by means of a '+' sign (e.g, +8, +18). If all of those numbers are around +15 then you probably would be getting an upgrade every turn or two, but not in the same area of research each time.

As for the rate of upgrades being unrealistic, I'm not sure that's the case. The game has about 80 potential upgrades, all based on innovations made during the Civil War (though, as with balloons, for example, not extensively implemented). The Civil War lasted four years beginning with Fort Sumter, which is about 96 turns in the game. So that mathematically does work out to nearly an upgrade per turn over the course of the game.



Roger Neilson II -> RE: Technology Upgrades (12/13/2006 10:24:53 PM)

I'll have to look next time I'm in the game. However the upgrades, whatever the speed of them arriving as options - are they implemented immediately? If they are this is odd. If I develop a new technique or technology even now its not going to be available straight away all over the country... is there some delay or is it instantaneous upgrading?

Roger

Of course if this was playable in windowed mode then I'd be able to look much faster..... HINT!!!!!!



Roger Neilson II -> RE: Technology Upgrades (12/13/2006 10:44:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gil R.

You guys are right about salvo, etc., of course.

Roger, it's hard for me to tell what's going on, but I'm not sure anything abnormal is happening. When you go to the City Details screen and see the yellow research light bulbs on the left there will be numbers showing your rate of research by means of a '+' sign (e.g, +8, +18). If all of those numbers are around +15 then you probably would be getting an upgrade every turn or two, but not in the same area of research each time.

As for the rate of upgrades being unrealistic, I'm not sure that's the case. The game has about 80 potential upgrades, all based on innovations made during the Civil War (though, as with balloons, for example, not extensively implemented). The Civil War lasted four years beginning with Fort Sumter, which is about 96 turns in the game. So that mathematically does work out to nearly an upgrade per turn over the course of the game.


Ok, attached is current situation:

Roger


[image]local://upfiles/21586/F72F20E02C5B4C9685E695704C9051C0.gif[/image]



Gil R. -> RE: Technology Upgrades (12/13/2006 11:07:23 PM)

Upgrades do take effect right away, since programming in a delay based on distances or some other factor would be difficult. (I don't know how difficult, but if this is an important issue please post a note to the Wish List thread, and Eric will determine whether this is something that can be done for a future patch.) I do, of course, realize that it's odd when suddenly every brigade's skirmishers instantly become better, or all of a country's ships suddenly are that much harder to sink, etc. But many other upgrades do make sense when they're available everywhere, especially those that permit the purchase of new weapons.

As for your particular game, you should be getting a naval upgrade every few turns, and a training one about half as often, but engineering and logistics upgrades should be quite rare. If you do think there is a problem it would be good to click on the nearby link that lists all of your upgrades and count them up, and see if they really do seem too numerous.



spruce -> RE: Technology Upgrades (12/14/2006 12:12:01 AM)

I've noticed that the CSA is getting rather unrealistic high research donations when at very good diplomatic relations a European power. I was at level +6 and it seems tech assistance is likely - but in my game it went very quick - I even had turns with +106 research points from the UK in one turn...

I think the advance rate of the CSA on naval technology should still be lower compared to the Union navy - even with strong UK support.

I think the British should sell some fairly cheap (or strong ) ironclads at the CSA when at higher diplo ratings. Now you get state of the art ships for a non - existent navy.



marecone -> RE: Technology Upgrades (12/14/2006 10:34:34 AM)

I second that. Especially research matter. Rebs are discovering stuff a bit too fast.



Gil R. -> RE: Technology Upgrades (12/14/2006 10:46:40 AM)

What do others think about the levels of research help available to the CSA from Europe? The game's been out for two weeks now, so around this time there should be enough of you who have played enough games to start forming impressions of what should be tweaked for game-balance improvements. Do others who, like Spruce and Marecone, have kicked the tires enough times feel the same way about this?



quikstrike -> RE: Technology Upgrades (12/14/2006 10:55:21 AM)

Oi, not me. The Union declared Emancipation only a few turns into the game, and I'm now bankrupting myself trying to woo the Europeans back to the Confederate cause. :(



soeren01 -> RE: Technology Upgrades (12/14/2006 3:26:52 PM)

50 or 75 points technology gains are to much in my opinion.  I would cap it around 25 with is the equivalent of about 8 research buildings.



marecone -> RE: Technology Upgrades (12/16/2006 3:23:01 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: soeren01

50 or 75 points technology gains are to much in my opinion.  I would cap it around 25 with is the equivalent of about 8 research buildings.


I second that [;)]



Sonny -> RE: Technology Upgrades (12/16/2006 4:17:07 AM)

Doesn't it depend on what level you are playing??

I did have one time when England's support for CSA dropped to zero and in the same turn they received 80 (of something) from Great Britain.

Maybe England and Great Britain are two different countries??[8|]



Maurym -> RE: Technology Upgrades (2/21/2007 7:55:09 PM)

I like the idea of limits on both tech point gains \ tech buildings allowed...however, I would like to see that as an option that I would be able to adjust when setting up a game.



Gil R. -> RE: Technology Upgrades (2/21/2007 8:05:29 PM)

For this upcoming patch we've reduced the amount of research one can get from Europe in a single turn (by half, I believe). However, I don't like the idea of capping the number of tech buildings, since that takes away from the player a potential strategy -- but more importantly, their cost makes it too expensive to build all that many of them, so this doesn't strike me as a major problem.

It is possible that in the Southern Steel scenario, in which the Union has more money and resources than it knows what to do with, the Union might go crazy building research institutions, but the Union also has to build/purchase units, ships, expensive guns, etc. etc., so I'm not going to worry about this until I see evidence it is happening. (Also, this is why we have "Mansions" in the game and also limit the number of buildings each city can get -- to hold back economic development somewhat. Even at the richest settings possible, the Union cannot build infinite buildings, so it can't build dozens of research-related buildings.)



christof139 -> RE: Technology Upgrades (2/26/2007 4:17:20 PM)

I know someone asked this before but I can't find the post; what are the benefits of taking the Smokeless Powder uprade??

And you can get peeved if you want ot, but the US militay DID NOT use large amounts of smokeless powder even in WWII, although the Japanese did. However, 'smokeless powder' is a misnomer because all powder when ignited gives off fumes, smoke, to varying degrees of intensity.

So, I have not any idea what advantage 'Smokeless Powder' gives, and haven't found its description yet in the manual etc., but I may be missing where this is at anyway.

Something like 'Improved Gunpowder' is accurate for the ACW, and I think tis is what the 'Smokeless Powder' upgrade actually is.

Not anyone has invented 'Smokeless Ceegars' (Cigars) yet either, and that is what I am polluting the air with now. You can tell I once worked in the Enviro. field. Hmmmm?? [8|][:)]

Have a good day wherever you are at if you can, we dodged the major part of that nasty ice and snow storm here, so Spring might be just around the corner. [:)] Hmmm, largest recorde snowfall in detroit was I believe on April 8th or so in 1963. Maybe someone will invent 'Snowless Snow' or 'Iceless Ice' or something like that. A Virtual Winter maybe, in a data packet. Beats me. [&:]

Chris



Drex -> RE: Technology Upgrades (2/26/2007 4:43:11 PM)

Probably has to do with visibility. You get all those guns going and a lot of smoke is produced. this is shown in the detailed battles.



Gil R. -> RE: Technology Upgrades (2/26/2007 7:27:46 PM)

Yes, it helps with visibility, so that your troops can fire more effectively. And you're right, the manual fails to state this -- thanks for pointing it out.

Smokeless powder, like balloons, etc. etc., is one of the technologies that did indeed exist during the Civil War but was not widely used, and therefore is put in the game because it could have been more widely used.



christof139 -> RE: Technology Upgrades (2/26/2007 7:47:49 PM)

quote:

Yes, it helps with visibility, so that your troops can fire more effectively. And you're right, the manual fails to state this -- thanks for pointing it out.

Smokeless powder, like balloons, etc. etc., is one of the technologies that did indeed exist during the Civil War but was not widely used, and therefore is put in the game because it could have been more widely used.


Thanx you two for explaining it. I can imagine that ACW Era 'Smokeless powder' was actually quite smokey, as the WWII stuff the Japanese used was still visible to the naked eye, but not as much as the powder we used. It worked to some advantage for the Japanese, but the smoke from their 'Smokeless Powder' was still visible.

Chris



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