Question re old CC mods and why should I buy? (Full Version)

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FMRommel -> Question re old CC mods and why should I buy? (12/30/2006 10:32:34 AM)

Just need a clarification on COI and which mods it will have. I get the impression that it will not only contain the original but also some modded maps. If so, about how many. There are hundreds out there.

Also, I already have CC1-CCV. I don't really play them much any more. Why should I purchase COI? Don't get me wrong. I hope that you have a great answer to this one. If it is improved, I will shell out the dough. But 39-49.00 for essentially the same product seems steep IMHO. So, Matrix, what do you say to this?



Stwa -> RE: Question re old CC mods and why should I buy? (12/31/2006 11:26:19 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: FMRommel

Just need a clarification on COI and which mods it will have. I get the impression that it will not only contain the original but also some modded maps. If so, about how many. There are hundreds out there.

Also, I already have CC1-CCV. I don't really play them much any more. Why should I purchase COI? Don't get me wrong. I hope that you have a great answer to this one. If it is improved, I will shell out the dough. But 39-49.00 for essentially the same product seems steep IMHO. So, Matrix, what do you say to this?



I obviously cannot speak for Matrix, but I would like to attempt to answer.

1. COI is a re-release (sort of speak), of CC3, which has become hard (if not impossible) to obtain commercially.

2. The developers (Simtek), and a huge user community is fond of this version, so an updated release to appease this portion of the user community and to attract new users to same would be the marketing strategy (or hope).

3. The updated CC3 (COI), will function better with today's operating systems (like Windows XP) and include some new addons to enhance the multiplayer aspects of the game.

So, if you currently do not own a legitimate copy of CC3, you can purchase COI and join in the miltiplayer fun at the Simtek CSO Close Combat Site. If you currently own CC3 and it is not running nicely on your system, you can buy COI, and life should be better.

Is that worth 50 bucks. Well, I think Matrix has already figured out (based on other titles), that it is!





Marc von Martial -> RE: Question re old CC mods and why should I buy? (12/31/2006 2:46:43 PM)

Have a look at the release notes:

http://www.closecombat.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=6611&d=1165618745





Stwa -> RE: Question re old CC mods and why should I buy? (12/31/2006 4:18:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc Schwanebeck

Have a look at the release notes:

http://www.closecombat.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=6611&d=1165618745



Very informative document, BTW!



berto72 -> RE: Question re old CC mods and why should I buy? (12/31/2006 6:14:02 PM)

To be clear:
with my old copy of cc3 i...

A) Will be alone in a empty server;

B) Can dl an upgrade to play with CoI people;

C) Just can trash it because i need CoI to play with CoI;

Thanks, Berto'72



KAKO -> RE: Question re old CC mods and why should I buy? (12/31/2006 8:39:00 PM)

Hi all , I am rookie in the forum, greeting to all.Like to make a pair of questions.

Has commercialized Cross of Iron?

Where I can buy it?

Thanks.



gunny -> RE: Question re old CC mods and why should I buy? (1/1/2007 2:12:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KAKO
Hi all , I am rookie in the forum, greeting to all.Like to make a pair of questions.
Has commercialized Cross of Iron?
Where I can buy it?
Thanks.


I don't think its out quite yet. But keep an ear to the ground, should be soon. Normally I would expect this to be available as an E-buy. Visit the matrix store for details
E-store Link
I prefer digital download. It is fast, think it would only take 30-45min depending on your server connection (probably less). And you can always copy the archive game file to a CD for back up. Ask away in the general forum if you are new to it.

As for the original thread, was wondering the same thing. Seems there are a couple changes to the AI, new units, and lots of new maps for a longer campaign than the original CC3. So the game would appeal to those who didn't get enough CC or to those new to the series. I'm not really sure if I would purchase a CC6 (COI). Lord knows I played the crap out of CC2 to CC5 in the day. That ship may have sailed, and my computer has much more processing power to spare these days.

But Close Combat is satifaction guaranteed[;)]





KAKO -> RE: Question re old CC mods and why should I buy? (1/1/2007 3:10:01 PM)

Thanks for the answer. I will hope, impatient, the next launching of the game.

Greetings



KG_Absolute -> RE: Question re old CC mods and why should I buy? (1/7/2007 1:20:17 AM)

The release notes indicate a buy here. An excerpt from the release:

Command Centre

The Command Centre provides a number of useful Links providing a convenient centralized service as an alternative to the Start Menu or manual launching.

Links include:

· Cross of Iron: The Game
· Battle HQ: Online Game Lobby and Chat System
· ModSwap: The CCModSwap Utility (see below)
· CSO Downloads: File Library for Cross of Iron Downloads
· MMCCIII Client: The Massive Multiplayer Close Combat Client (se below)
· Manuals: This opens the Manuals Folder in the default file browser
· Matrix Games: The Publishers Site
· Closecombat.org: The CC Community Site and Forums

CCModSwap

This is a new game with new features and new additions too.

So much for my New Year resolution of not playing Close Combat for 2007!



Lincolns Mullet -> RE: Question re old CC mods and why should I buy? (1/16/2007 10:45:23 PM)

I was a huge CC2 fan, definitely one of my all-time favorite games.  I was disappointed in CC3 though, but I didn't try out any of the mods either (shows how long I played it before going back to CC2!).  The campaign didn't hold a candle to CC2's, and felt the gameplay was unbalanced compared to CC2's.  I would love to give CC3 another chance but will probably wait until I hear what people say about CoI.  The graphics are definitely dated, so I hope we can at least tighten it up with a higher resolution.

There are probably many people who would pay any price to get this version as they are huge fans.  Hell, I'd buy X-Com again for $40 if all they did was update the graphics.  But, these days my time and money are stretched and I tend to be a lot pickier on my purchases.  This is coming from a more "casual"  CC player though, who I imagine they would be trying to woo back to the series with CoI as well.  Hopefully there are plans for a demo as I'd probably need to get "juiced up" into buying it again. :)



7A_CavScout -> RE: Question re old CC mods and why should I buy? (1/16/2007 11:41:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lincolns Mullet
Hopefully there are plans for a demo as I'd probably need to get "juiced up" into buying it again. :)


No demo forthcoming.



pad152 -> RE: Question re old CC mods and why should I buy? (1/17/2007 9:20:52 PM)

The game seems geared for Multiplayer, what's in it for single player, new campaign, etc?



pad152 -> RE: Question re old CC mods and why should I buy? (1/17/2007 9:25:10 PM)

How many mods support Singleplayer vs Multiplayer?



Tactics -> RE: Question re old CC mods and why should I buy? (1/18/2007 2:57:38 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc Schwanebeck

Have a look at the release notes:

http://www.closecombat.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=6611&d=1165618745







Prince of Eckmühl -> RE: Question re old CC mods and why should I buy? (1/18/2007 4:26:41 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lincolns Mullet

I was a huge CC2 fan, definitely one of my all-time favorite games. I was disappointed in CC3 though, but I didn't try out any of the mods either (shows how long I played it before going back to CC2!). The campaign didn't hold a candle to CC2's, and felt the gameplay was unbalanced compared to CC2's. I would love to give CC3 another chance but will probably wait until I hear what people say about CoI. The graphics are definitely dated, so I hope we can at least tighten it up with a higher resolution.



Let me second this poster's preference for CC2 over CC3. CC2 was just a better game, with a magnificent campaign, and a lot of multimedia bells and whistles that, while expensive, are also the sort of thing that you associate with more mainstream gaming products. I believe that "market-research" may have played a role in the alterations that were made in CC3, as follows:

1) People want more armour.

2) People want the Eastern Front.

3) People are more interested in battles than in campaigns, as that's what they are focusing on in their comments about the game.

Well, the squeaky-wheels got their way, and while CC3 was well received by Close Combat fans, it didn't live up to the sales expectations of Microsoft. THAT marked the gradual demise of the title, at least on a retail level. And the squeaky wheels were later more than delighted to jump on board the Combat Mission bandwagon, a worthwhile, but even more narrowly tailored product than CC3-5.

While we're on our way back to the Eastern Front (sigh), I'm genuinely heartened by the decision to put the emphasis back on infantry play and the campaign game. Those two points ought to make EVERYONE who ever played and enjoyed Close Combat very, very pleased. I know that I am.

PoE (aka ivanmoe)






old man of the sea -> RE: Question re old CC mods and why should I buy? (1/19/2007 5:41:50 AM)

Nah,

When we had the feature meeting for CC3 the thing at the top of the list was "blow sh*t up in cool ways"
The worst design flaw was trying to cover the entire war as a soldier drug along by events he could not control.
The best was super soldier Ivan.(I'm kidding here)

The sales where fine for CC3, but only half that of CC2, but Microsft top management had already decided to end the line before CC3 was released, because they wanted to focus on million selling titles. CC2 almost and may have done 1 million in sales after it was a budget CD only title. It was the smoothest breakup I ever saw in the biz, Microsoft always treated us right.

I'm hoping that the scenario editor is improved in Cross of Iron. If they open up the campaign data files a bit, which should not be too much work on CSO, I might just become a modder for once in my life.

E



Prince of Eckmühl -> RE: Question re old CC mods and why should I buy? (1/19/2007 7:17:05 AM)

Thanks for you comments, Eric.

I readily admit that my thoughts were pure speculation.

A question, though...

I've often read that Sid Meier's Gettysburg was the best selling computer-sorta-wargame of all time, and the number that's cited is about 250,000 copies.

Your number for CC2 sales seems to dwarf those for SMG.

WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO DEMAND FOR THESE GAMES??? [;)]

PoE (aka ivanmoe)



old man of the sea -> RE: Question re old CC mods and why should I buy? (1/19/2007 7:31:33 AM)

As far as I know there was no lack of demand. Atomic fell apart due to bad management, and a general disinterest in furthering the line of CC games. I've never seen so much wasted money on Barbie dolls.

CC2 sold twice that at full price. Never believe marketing material.

Theives and liars rule the game industry. That's why I'm retired from it.

E



Real and Simulated Wars -> RE: Question re old CC mods and why should I buy? (1/19/2007 4:11:51 PM)

Hi Eric. [:)]

What do you mean retired? You are not working on that govt. contract anymore? Or you mean commercial games?
I have a game manual signed by you. Now that you are retired it is more valuable![:'(]

I will definitively buy this release. CC3 was my first wargame. I played it to death but still will buy a copy of the new release.

Now, as I am a chronic-single-player-only type of gamer, I would like to know what aspects of the computer opponent/AI have been improved. For many people, the big AI issue in the CC series was pathfinding. For me it was a bit different. For a strange reason I was always under the impression that the computer opponent knew where your positions were and would walk straight into them. As SimTek is working for govt clients too, I'm hopeful of a stronger computer opponent overall.

Regards,


Julio






Prince of Eckmühl -> RE: Question re old CC mods and why should I buy? (1/19/2007 4:49:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: old man of the sea

Theives and liars rule the game industry.



No shortage of either as associated with the "business," least ways, in my experience.

PoE (aka ivanmoe)



old man of the sea -> RE: Question re old CC mods and why should I buy? (1/19/2007 5:23:04 PM)

Chelco, I'm done with developing computer games. I may get into playing them for the first time in years though. I'm in Police Training now, teaching SWAT teams in CQB tactics and judgemental shooting. Slice the pie, fatal funnel, all that. Yes, the AI cheats, or at least did cheat in many ways in CC. But a lot of that was due to scenario design. If you made scenarios with deployment and victory objectives that are very seperate the AI would not look like it was cheating so bad.

We should get together again. I still work at DAS, just out of the entertainment part of the company, thank the gods.

I have a gift for you this time.

E (another liar, but not a thief)




Real and Simulated Wars -> RE: Question re old CC mods and why should I buy? (1/20/2007 12:37:51 AM)


Good to see you are doing great Eric. You always manage to get well paid for having fun! [:'(]

It would be great to get together sometime. I work in Ft. Detrick now, closer to PA but still in MD. I'll PM you.

Regarding CC's AI, it is disheartening to see my perceptions confirmed. To be sincere, I first noticed that effect in CCMarines and then went straight into CC3 and 4 just to see the same thing. Maybe is time for me to start playing against other humans.

Regards,

Julio





old man of the sea -> RE: Question re old CC mods and why should I buy? (1/20/2007 3:54:20 AM)

I'm not having any fun doing what I do. Too much travel, and well, I'm a hippie biker, so I would never have thought I would be working in law enforcement training.

But yeah, drop me a line. We'll hook up.

E



Boar -> RE: Question re old CC mods and why should I buy? (1/21/2007 1:32:56 AM)

Some of us will always appreciate the pains you, Eric, took to "do right" by us grognards and provide support for CC5 when
it was basically dumped by KZ. Microsoft's latest excuse for a wargame is the absurd click-fest "Company of Heroes." Even my
19-yr old son didn't care for that one.

As far as improvements to the AI in the single-player experience, if what I've heard and read are true the
change in the AI behavior will be dramatic. The tools provided with the game for editing alone will be worth the price,
as far as I'm concerned. Too bad no one can "spiff up" CC2 for the modern times. Indeed one of my favorite games,
but exruciatingly slow to play as single player at times. CC4 and CC5 also have many improvements over the other games,
but some drawbacks as well that could be corrected. But I understand chances are slim to none for the latter games to be "revised"
so dramatically. I was so shocked and surprised to find out about the COI project -- we truly owe a lot to our CSO Simtek folks. Let's
hope at least those dwelling on these boards will see the wisdom of supporting this great effort. Otherwise, I hope you all enjoy
playing Rainbow Six and Age of Empires clones the rest of your life, 'cause that's all I've seen anyone else offer (exception: Medieval
Total War 2, and RTW, which rock!).




Lincolns Mullet -> RE: Question re old CC mods and why should I buy? (1/21/2007 3:02:45 AM)

Yes, while I would love to see CC2 updated, in reality the core game was/is fun enough to not warrant the kind of changes we're seeing with CC3.  If I could actually find my CC2 disk I would re-install it.  So I don't think CC2 would of had enough "updates" to it to warrant a price tag CoI is looking at.

And Boar, while I haven't played CoH, it's been a "darling" in the eyes of the press and with many gamers, even garnering "Game of the Year" awards.  I've been primarily a PC gamer all my life, but frankly I'm getting sick and tired of upgrading my PC every year to play these new games.  I have a Xbox 360 now, which I paid a flat price for and will run new games on it for 5+ years without needing any upgrades.  These days I have been using my PC for less-intensive gaming, and for games I won't ever see on an Xbox.  My point is, I am more willing to support games distributed by places like Matrix Games and Battlefront because they offer unique and amazing games and will never require me to update my PC.  For the graphic-intensive stuff I'll leave to my Xbox.  :)



Boar -> RE: Question re old CC mods and why should I buy? (1/21/2007 5:29:01 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lincolns Mullet

And Boar, while I haven't played CoH, it's been a "darling" in the eyes of the press and with many gamers, even garnering "Game of the Year" awards.  I've been primarily a PC gamer all my life, but frankly I'm getting sick and tired of upgrading my PC every year to play these new games.  I have a Xbox 360 now, which I paid a flat price for and will run new games on it for 5+ years without needing any upgrades.


Au contraire, my friend. What if a game comes out that "pushes the envelope?" An example would be Half-Life 2 and Fear. These games came out and the latest iteration of XBox/Playstation, etc. could not handle graphics at the level of a PC. You also make it sound like you saved a lot of money going this route, but with games costing the same as PC games every time you buy one, there's not much chance for "little games" or add-ons and etc. I'm sure a lot of people love the Xbox, Playstation, and they have their moments. Just don't think you're tricked out to play games that will come out for the PC in the next 5 years. I'd say two years tops.


quote:

These days I have been using my PC for less-intensive gaming, and for games I won't ever see on an Xbox.  My point is, I am more willing to support games distributed by places like Matrix Games and Battlefront because they offer unique and amazing games and will never require me to update my PC.  For the graphic-intensive stuff I'll leave to my Xbox.  :)


Why can't you have both? I have. I've had the same system for a number of years now ... maybe 5 years at least! It's multi-talented, versatile, and can probably still kick butt in most graphics depts. No, I probably couldn't play COH, and wouldn't want to, but for Half Life 3, Stalker: Shadow of Chernobyl, and etc., do you think I'm gonna upgrade my computer? You betcha. And then I can play those games and all the games from the past I enjoyed, burn music CDs, edit documents for work, or play solitaire while I listen to music. Why screw around with second best? Oh, and I also prefer real wargames that offer "realism" in the form of realistic-like data for how guns and armor work in the real
world, not necessarily in how cool buildings look like when they tumble down. And I see few if any games that require much strategic thought on the Xbox. I also prefer the control for good old FPS in PC over console. Just me.





old man of the sea -> RE: Question re old CC mods and why should I buy? (1/22/2007 2:36:11 AM)

Boar, you have always been one of my favorite fans of CC. Mick, Milkman, Boar, Hof, and so many more. Where have the years gone. It's been 6 years since I left Atomic. I worked there for 10 years. I'm old now.

You know, not many people keep in touch with the fan base of thier games. I've always been a fan of the fans.

Thanks,

E aka Mad Bunny

P.S. It may be time to drop the "old man of the sea" and go back to the "Mad Bunny".



Lincolns Mullet -> RE: Question re old CC mods and why should I buy? (1/22/2007 3:54:00 PM)

As much as I'd enjoy playing the latest and greatest games that push the envelope, I suppose I've lost some of my gaming steam over the years. Take Crysis for example. The game looks amazing and while I would love to play it (assuming it plays as good as it looks), I just don't have it in me to spend hundreds (maybe even a thousand) to upgrade to the latest and greatest PC. The graphics on the 360 are amazing to me, and far better than what my current Geforce 6600 can handle (which I just upgraded to 6 months ago for $130). If I were to upgrade again right now, I'd spend at least another $150 on a vid card ($250+ if I wanted to not upgrade again for 2-3 years) plus a new mobo and PSU to handle it.

I'm a PC gamer at heart, but maybe it's a combination of things that have turned me off to upgrading my PC. Time, money and a lack of high-end games for the PC probably have contributed. There really hasn't been any games I really wanted for the PC that requires more out of my system. Like I said, I tend to play more realistic wargames and older games on my PC these days that require no upgrades whatsover. For newer, flashier games I buy them for the 360. And if you've seen games like CoD3 and Gears of War for the 360, you would need a pretty sweet PC to compare graphics quality to.

So I agree with you, there is definitely room for both the PC and a console like the 360. For someone like myself anyway. I've actually come to enjoy FPS gaming on a console, and there's a lot of games on the console I just won't play or can't play on the PC such as football, baseball, boxing, etc.

Anyway, without getting way off topic, I should try and bring it back a bit. :) My original statement was basically, "I'll probably buy CoI simply to support games like that, and small time devs and publishers." I did enjoy CC3, but it had a lot to live up to with CC2 and I felt like with some changes it could have been nearly as good, and from reading about CoI it seems like those updates will be just what it needed.



Andrew Williams -> RE: Question re old CC mods and why should I buy? (1/22/2007 10:03:17 PM)

When I was a kid i used to play with little bristly boar's in my sandpit, when i discovered the CC forums it was like a dream come true.



Fred98 -> RE: Question re old CC mods and why should I buy? (1/23/2007 12:59:08 AM)

Aaaaarg!   he still has those eyes !

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