Jeff Garcia's future? (Full Version)

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boggyjr -> Jeff Garcia's future? (1/8/2007 6:22:23 AM)

Well, ex-Stampeder Jeff Garcia managed to beat New York today. Do you think he will replace McNabb next year, or get traded to another lousy team like Detroit or Cleveland a few years ago?



dreamtheatervt -> RE: Jeff Garcia's future? (1/8/2007 7:02:20 AM)

He'll stay in Philly.  He's purely a system QB, and thats what he and the league found out in Cleveland and Detroit, and at the age of 36 it's not like he has a long career ahead of him.  Philly knows they need a solid back-up with McNabb coming off an ACL injury after watching Culpepper try to rush himself back, so I think Garcia is staying put.



firebirds -> RE: Jeff Garcia's future? (1/8/2007 2:45:32 PM)

I wouldn't be surprised either way. If he stays it could have the makings of a very interesting QB situation, especially if Culpepper comes back encrusted in rust or his return is delayed. And not to mention how well Garcia continues to play. I would be surprised if a team picks him up that doesn't use a Garcia friendly system. As dreamtheatervt pointed out he is definately a system QB, and call me a dreamer, even he has to realize that at some point in his career. So do you take the big $$ offered as a starting QB to stink up the field because of the system or do you settle for the little $$ that a back up earns knowing that you will get some playing time and be able to perform nicely??



Great White -> RE: Jeff Garcia's future? (1/10/2007 1:50:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: boggyjr

Well, ex-Stampeder Jeff Garcia managed to beat New York today. Do you think he will replace McNabb next year, or get traded to another lousy team like Detroit or Cleveland a few years ago?


Wow[X(], I was thinking the exact same thing, during his great game, I wonder how many others were thinking the same? I do not expect him to get The Eagles starting job; thus I also expect him to leave, as a free-agent. Trading in The NFL is always very tough, because of Salary Cap.

dreamtheatervt,

I asked myself that exact question while watching him do great against NY Giants; but I came up with that it was not the system, but instead it was the quality of players. Detroit's or Cleveland's (then) flat-out OLs sucked, no WR was developing into what WRs Williams and Furree (sp?) are and RBs were not that good. Like any other player, I think he requires NFL quality players around him. Now, if he asks for a lot of money, I would steer away from him. Also, Eagles usually do not pay a lot of money for backup QBs; the last time they did McMahn (sp?, Detriot's QB few years back) killed them.

Firebirds,

Easy, I take money that makes me comfortable, not too little or not too much and play with whatever system, but as best Franchise (judged from ownership to Players) I can. If I am not happy where I work, Then no amount of money will make it better.



Brockleigh -> RE: Jeff Garcia's future? (1/10/2007 5:58:11 AM)

As a CFL-lover and 49ers-lover, no one is cheering for Jeff Garcia to do well more than myself.

But the Eagles and Garcia have to look at things rationally. His days as a starter are over. If the Eagles go all the way to the Super Bowl, that is about as long (in fact about one game longer) than I would want to rely on a 36-year old QB for. This is not a knock against Garcia, but come on, the body gets more brittle, the skills degrade, and when that happens the decision making takes a nano-second longer as if to say, "Am I still capable of doing that?"

Jeff Garcia is in almost the perfect system for him. In fact, this system in Philly may be better suited for him than McNabb. But Jeff knows why he's there. He knows that the Eagles aren't going to pay Donovan McNabb what they're paying him to carry a clipboard. He knows he's a stopgap, albeit an effective one. You can't build an offense around a player, who even if all goes right, is maybe, and realistically two years away from retirement. The Eagles are well aware of this, but they'll hang on to him, partly because they appreciate what he's done, and partly because QB's who can step in and seemlessly guide an offense are worth their weight in gold.

Garcia knows this. So do the Eagles. Garcia knows that this is the best case scenario for him. The Eagles know that this is an insurance policy working as well as it possibly could. But no matter how well this all works out, Philly signs another QB in March, the Eagles are drafting a QB somewhere in the first four rounds in April, and Garcia comes into camp in July knowing and expecting to fight for that #2 job.



Great White -> RE: Jeff Garcia's future? (1/10/2007 5:10:32 PM)

Brockleigh,

You would be right about the average QB, let alone any other player at any other position; however, he is young compared to some other QBs, in the past and present. Plus, he still is young compared to some QBs in the past that have started.

The first two that come to mind are (and this is where my terrible spelling comes into affect) Vinnie Testabirdie (Jets and another Franchise I cannot remember, now and right now he is a backup QB in his mid 40s) and George Bland (way back in the day, with The Oakland Raiders; played QB, kicked and everything, played until his 40s). What I am trying say is he might just be the Fegales (sp?; super old Punter, ex-Miami Hurricane); the very rare player that can be productive at a very old age.



JasonninTN -> RE: Jeff Garcia's future? (1/10/2007 5:13:57 PM)

The Eagles would be crazy to let Garcia go when they have no true idea of when McNabb is going to be fully recovered. Not to mention the fact that he's playing his best football in 5 years and carried them into the playoffs when nobody thought they had a chance. If they have to make him the highest paid backup QB in the league it still would be in their best interest to do so.



Great White -> RE: Jeff Garcia's future? (1/10/2007 5:24:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JasonninTN

The Eagles would be crazy to let Garcia go when they have no true idea of when McNabb is going to be fully recovered. Not to mention the fact that he's playing his best football in 5 years and carried them into the playoffs when nobody thought they had a chance. If they have to make him the highest paid backup QB in the league it still would be in their best interest to do so.


I agree, he is a lot better than Jacksoville's backup QB David Garrard (who currently is highest paid). Basically lost them The '2006 NFL Playoffs birth, proving to everyone that he is never going to be a starter and as a Florida FootBall Fan I was mad at him, seeing the last Florida Franchise eleminated.



CFL_FAN_7 -> RE: Jeff Garcia's future? (1/10/2007 11:31:03 PM)

I say Garcia can't replace McNabb, hes no were near McNabbs calibur (never was), but he makes a nice back-up with his conservative playstyle and veteran experience. McNabb is the best in the league.



Great White -> RE: Jeff Garcia's future? (1/10/2007 11:54:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CFL_FAN_7

I say Garcia can't replace McNabb, hes no were near McNabbs calibur (never was), but he makes a nice back-up with his conservative playstyle and veteran experience. McNabb is the best in the league.


Who said any thing about replacing a healthy McNabb? Jumped to conclusion there, man. I admite I have thought about it, but McNabb has improved, since being a bad passer and great runner, in CFB and first-few seasons, and is a lot younger. The reason I thought about it is because Garcia is a little better with producing less turnovers, because he is a lot more experienced, not because he is more conservative as you incorrectly state.



CFL_FAN_7 -> RE: Jeff Garcia's future? (1/11/2007 12:34:33 AM)

I said Garcia had experience, but he is conversative not extremly though.

i'm afraid you're incorrect...
McNabb wasn't a Bad passer, he was a run first Qb, It's hard to be successful passing with one of the worst recieving cores in NFL history, but in '04 he got T.O (but he was stupid enough to leave) someone who he could trust to catch a pass(other than westbrook), then L.J smith and Reggied Brown were good last season, then this season he had Dante Stallworth, but he got injured a lot. He has always shown himself to be a very good passer. 

*If he was a bad passser he wouldn't have:

came 2nd in Mvp voting in 2000, to Marshall Faulk. 

Named 2000 NFL Player of the Year by CBS Radio and the Terry (Bradshaw) Awards on Fox Sports and was named to the All-Madden team. 

first quarterback in league history to throw over 30 touchdowns (31) and less than 10 interceptions (8) in a single season.  

IN CFB he a good passer:

Big East Records

  • 1st - touchdown passes (77)
  • 1st - touchdowns responsible for (96)
  • 1st - passing yards (8,389)
  • 1st - total offensive yards (9,950)
  • 1st - total offensive plays (1,403)

    Syracuse University Records

  • 1st - total yards per game (221.1)
  • 1st - passing efficiency (155.1)
  • 1st - yards per attempt (9.1)







    • CFL_FAN_7 -> RE: Jeff Garcia's future? (1/11/2007 12:35:07 AM)

    You my friend are the incorrect one



    Great White -> RE: Jeff Garcia's future? (1/11/2007 1:45:47 AM)

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: CFL_FAN_7

    I said Garcia had experience, but he is conversative not extremly though.


    Garcia's best years in SF, with good WRs (T.O. included). http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/146325

    Year Team . G GS Att Comp Pct Yds . YPA Lg TD Int 20+ 40+ Rate

    1999 49ers 13 10 375 225 60.0 2544 6.78 62 11 11 28 07 77.9
    2000 49ers 16 16 561 355 63.3 4278 7.63 69 31 10 59 09 97.6
    2001 49ers 16 16 504 316 62.7 3538 7.02 61 32 12 40 10 94.8

    McNabb's First-Three Years, http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/133361

    Year Team . G GS Att Comp Pct Yds . YPA Lg TD Int 20+ 40+ Rate

    1999 Eagles 12 06 216 106 49.1 0948 4.39 63 08 07 07 01 60.1
    2000 Eagles 16 16 569 330 58.0 3365 5.91 70 21 13 45 05 77.8
    2001 Eagles 16 16 493 285 57.8 3233 6.56 64 25 12 44 09 84.3
    2003 Eagles 16 16 478 275 57.5 3216 6.73 59 16 11 44 09 79.6
    2004 Eagles 15 15 469 300 64.0 3875 8.26 80 31 08 50 20 104.7
    2005 Eagles 09 09 357 211 59.1 2507 7.02 91 16 09 27 06 85.0

    Owen's Years with both QBs, http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/1290

    1999 49ers. 14 14 060 0754 12.6 36 04 12 0 36
    2000 49ers. 14 13 097 1451 15.0 69 13 23 5 65
    2001 49ers. 16 16 093 1412 15.2 60 16 21 6 70
    2002 49ers. 14 14 100 1300 13.0 76 13 17 5 61
    2003 49ers. 15 15 080 1102 13.8 75 09 15 4 55
    2004 Eagles 14 14 077 1200 15.6 59 14 20 9 51
    2005 Eagles 07 07 047 0763 16.2 91 06 10 4 32

    My first-point is McNabb also a conservative QB? Because as you clearly see they entered the same time and like McNabb Garcia has thrown a lot of INTs, but more than McNabb in TDs and completition %; not a sign of a conservative QB. Neither Garcia or McNabb are conservative QBs.

    Manning's First-Three Years,

    Year Team . G GS Att Comp Pct Yds . YPA Lg TD Int 20+ 40+ Rate

    1998 Colts 16 16 575 326 56.7 3739 6.50 78 26 28 42 08 71.2
    1999 Colts 16 16 533 331 62.1 4135 7.76 80 26 15 56 11 90.7
    2000 Colts 16 16 571 357 62.5 4413 7.73 78 33 15 51 08 94.7

    Yes, Marvin Harrison (2000 Colts 16 16 102 1413 13.9 78 14 16 4 70) was there; however, Reggie Wayne was not yet drafted by Indianapolis Colts.

    My second-point is Manning had a better season, in '2000; not just because of his receiving core and OL was better, yet as you claim (I think you are right) by popularity VOTING McNabb was 2nd to Marshall Faulk for MVP. The biggest problem with awards is that they are based on popularity. By the way this is just one-unbelieveable player in '2000, I have not even gone through all the great players in '2000.

    quote:

    i'm afraid you're incorrect...

    McNabb wasn't a Bad passer, he was a run first Qb, It's hard to be successful passing with one of the worst recieving cores in NFL history, but in '04 he got T.O (but he was stupid enough to leave) someone who he could trust to catch a pass(other than westbrook), then L.J smith and Reggied Brown were good last season, then this season he had Dante Stallworth, but he got injured a lot. He has always shown himself to be a very good passer.

    *If he was a bad passser he wouldn't have:

    He came 2nd in Mvp voting in 2000, to Marshall Faulk.

    Named 2000 NFL Player of the Year by CBS Radio and the Terry (Bradshaw) Awards on Fox Sports and was named to the All-Madden team.

    first quarterback in league history to throw over 30 touchdowns (31) and less than 10 interceptions (8) in a single season.
      

    My Third-Point, showing why your claim he was not a bad passing QB, at first, is wrong.

    Coy Detmer's numbers, http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/1749

    Year Team . G GS Att Comp Pct Yds . YPA Lg TD Int 20+ 40+ Rate

    1997 Eagles 00 0 000 -------------------------------
    1998 Eagles 08 5 181 97 53.6 1011 5.59 61 5 5 12 3 67.7
    1999 Eagles 01 1 029 10 34.5 0181 6.24 50 3 2 04 2 62.6
    2000 Eagles 16 0 001 00 00.0 0000 0.00 00 0 1 00 0 00.0
    2001 Eagles 16 0 014 05 35.7 0051 3.64 16 0 1 00 0 17.3
    2002 Eagles 14 1 028 19 67.9 0224 8.00 37 2 0 05 0 115.8
    2003 Eagles 16 0 005 03 60.0 0032 6.40 15 0 0 00 0 78.8
    2004 Eagles 16 1 040 18 45.0 0207 5.18 31 0 2 05 0 40.3
    2005 Eagles 16 0 056 32 57.1 0238 4.25 24 0 3 01 0 45.1
    2006 Eagles 00 0 000 -------------------------------


    A.J. Feeley's Numbers, http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/235056

    Year Team ... G GS Att Comp Pct Yds . YPA Lg TD Int 20+ 40+ Rate

    2001 Eagles . 01 00 014 010 71.4 0143 10.21 27 02 01 02 00 114.0
    2002 Eagles . 06 05 154 086 55.8 1011 06.56 53 06 05 15 03 75.4
    2003 Eagles . 00 00 000 000 -----------------------
    2004 Dolphins 11 08 356 191 53.7 1893 05.32 38 11 15 15 00 61.7
    2005 Chargers 00 00 000 000 -----------------------
    2006 Eagles . 02 00 038 026 68.4 0342 09.00 89 03 00 03 01 122.9

    Notice that every less than average NFL passing (but smart) QB that goes through The Eagle's -complex- West Coast Offense does good, by the way Miami Dolphins have no so called west coast offense, but a lot better WR core than Eagles did than.

    I can spend a ton of time getting all former SF's less than average NFL passing QBs (after Steve Young, I can make an arguement against him to) that did even better, but do I really need to do that?

    The West Coast Offense is a QB system, makes every QB appear a lot better than they really are; unlike any other system that allows for a ton passing, but does not guarrantee a ton of short and easy passes.

    quote:

    IN CFB he a good passer:

    Big East Records

  • 1st - touchdown passes (77)
  • 1st - touchdowns responsible for (96)
  • 1st - passing yards (8,389)
  • 1st - total offensive yards (9,950)
  • 1st - total offensive plays (1,403)

    Syracuse University Records

  • 1st - total yards per game (221.1)
  • 1st - passing efficiency (155.1)
  • 1st - yards per attempt (9.1)


    • My fourth-point is THE BIGEAST! YOU ARE USING THE BIGEAST RECORDS, LOL[:D]! Now I know Univ. of Miami played in and won BS NCs while in The BisEast, but over all of Univ. of Miami's great QBs which ones played in The BigEast? 1-Ken Dorsey (probably the best ever); yet Univ. of Miami ran the ball more than passed it (probably because they had the best combination RBs ever). Even more on that what great passing BigEast QB has there been? I give you a week, to think about this, and you will probably still have nothing worth writing home about. All I remember about McNabb is Option run, Option pass and many roll out passes. By the way one of the things first-three years McNabb had to work on was pocket passing.

    I will say once and million times, with out blinking an eye, the option is an outdate offense that puts QBs at risk for being Busts in The NFL, because unless they have arms (Nebraska's Ex-QB Crouch and Hiesman Trophy, LOL[:D]) are smart, really willing to work to become pass first QBs and not super running stick figures (Michael Vick, anyone) they will never succeed when is truely a profession.

    Hey no hard my way, friend, just shocked after all I am only talking about his first-three years.




    CFL_FAN_7 -> RE: Jeff Garcia's future? (1/11/2007 2:05:43 AM)

    quote:

    quote:

    Wow[X(], I was thinking the exact same thing, during his great game, I wonder how many others were thinking the same? I do not expect him to get The Eagles starting job; thus I also expect him to leave, as a free-agent. Trading in The NFL is always very tough, because of Salary Cap.


    dreamtheatervt,

    I asked myself that exact question while watching him do great against NY Giants; but I came up with that it was not the system, but instead it was the quality of players.

     
    What is wrong with you people, Giants aren't that good! Garcia had a DECENT game, Westbrook is the one who was amazing!




    Great White -> RE: Jeff Garcia's future? (1/11/2007 2:17:01 AM)

    CFL_FAN_7

    I agree with you, and I never said he was a great QB-besides that game, but for what he did since McNabb's injury I think will get him another starting job. I will agree that Giants defense is full of holes and a lot of QBs have done that since becoming swiss cheese.

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: CFL_FAN_7
    I say Garcia can't replace McNabb, hes no were near McNabbs calibur (never was), but he makes a nice back-up with his conservative playstyle and veteran experience. McNabb is the best in the league.


    My serious advice for you: your unbelievable fanship of McNabb is making you look silly; please re-examine it, and come back down (from John Madden fantasy land) to reality.



    jrodsly -> RE: Jeff Garcia's future? (1/11/2007 3:36:28 AM)

    1. that is a very long post, GW.

    2. Garcia is staying put.

    2. AND TROGODOR COMES IN THE NIIIIIIGHT!



    CFL_FAN_7 -> RE: Jeff Garcia's future? (1/12/2007 4:38:06 AM)

    WOW looking all those stats up was a complete waste still doesn't prove McNabb was a bad passer 

    1- Rookie seasons aren't always good INT to TD ratio, even Payton Manning had a bad TD-INt ratio
    2- West Coast cant make u look better jus cause u pass alot, maybe yardage wise if anything, but not overall

    This proves he was a good passer, note that in '03 he had one of the worst WR combo's in the history of the NFL, Statistically.
     
    Donovan McNabb

    Passing Statistics:

    Year Team ... G GS Att Comp Pct Yds .. YPA . Lg TD Int 20+ 40+ Rate

    1999 Eagles 12 06 216 106 49.1 0948 4.39 63 08 07 07 01 60.1
    2000 Eagles 16 16 569 330 58.0 3365 5.91 70 21 13 45 05 77.8
    2001 Eagles 16 16 493 285 57.8 3233 6.56 64 25 12 44 09 84.3
    2002 Eagles 10 10 361 211 58.4 2289 6.34 59 17 06 27 03 86.0
    2003 Eagles 16 16 478 275 57.5 3216 6.73 59 16 11 44 09 79.6
    2004 Eagles 15 15 469 300 64.0 3875 8.26 80 31 08 50 20 104.7
    2005 Eagles 09 09 357 211 59.1 2507 7.02 91 16 09 27 06 85.0
    2006 Eagles 10 10 316 180 57.0 2647 8.38 87 18 06 44 14 95.5

    TOTAL ....... 104 98 3259 1898 58.2 22080 6.78 91 152 72 288 67 85.2

    [image]http://images.commissioner.com/images/dot_clear.gif[/image]
    '02, '05 and '06 He had injuries  
     

    A.J. Feeley

    Passing Statistics:

    Year Team ....... G GS Att Comp Pct Yds .. YPA .. Lg TD Int 20+ 40+ Rate

    2001 Eagles ... 01 00 014 010 71.4 0143 10.21 27 02 01 02 00 114.0
    2002 Eagles ... 06 05 154 086 55.8 1011 06.56 53 06 05 15 03 75.4
    2003 Eagles ... 00 00 000 000 ------------------------------------------------
    2004 Dolphins. 11 08 356 191 53.7 1893 05.32 38 11 15 15 00 61.7
    2005 Chargers 00 00 000 000 ------------------------------------------------
    2006 Eagles ... 02 00 038 026 68.4 0342 09.00 89 03 00 03 01 122.9

    TOTAL ........ 20 13 562 313 55.7 3389 6.03 89 22 21 35 4 71.1

    *When feely relieved McNabb he had a bad TD-INT ratio
    *He didn't even play many games and u can see why


    Jeff Garcia

    Passing Statistics:

    Year Team ..... G GS Att Comp Pct Yds .. YPA . Lg TD Int 20+ 40+ Rate

    1999 49ers .. 13 10 375 225 60.0 2544 6.78 62 11 11 28 07 77.9
    2000 49ers .. 16 16 561 355 63.3 4278 7.63 69 31 10 59 09 97.6
    2001 49ers .. 16 16 504 316 62.7 3538 7.02 61 32 12 40 10 94.8
    2002 49ers .. 16 16 528 328 62.1 3344 6.33 76 21 10 31 07 85.6
    2003 49ers .. 13 13 392 225 57.4 2704 6.90 75 18 13 35 06 80.1
    2004 Browns 11 10 252 144 57.1 1731 6.87 99 10 09 18 08 76.7
    2005 Lions ... 06 05 173 102 59.0 0937 5.42 49 03 06 11 02 65.1
    2006 Eagles . 08 06 188 116 61.7 1309 6.96 65 10 02 16 04 95.8

    TOTAL ........ 99 92 2973 1811 60.9 20385 6.86 99 136 73 238 53 86.4

    Garcia beats McNabb in TDs (2 seasons),Completeion PCT(except in '04 when someone on philly could catch,TO),QB rating (except '02 and '04 and '05)

    3- He has approx. 6-8 passing records.

    4-Remember for over 3 seasons he has had one of the worst recieving corps in the NFL's history and has been plagued by injury.



    CFL_FAN_7 -> RE: Jeff Garcia's future? (1/12/2007 4:38:53 AM)

    WOw my stats came out different from when i copy and pasted



    Tbird -> RE: Jeff Garcia's future? (1/12/2007 4:52:40 AM)

    I don't think Garcia had a fair shot in Detroit or in Cleveland

    I don't think he ever played a full season in either team, but after seeing what Joey did in Miami I don't think Garcia would've done much in Detroit but dunno about Cleveland.



    Marauders -> RE: Jeff Garcia's future? (1/12/2007 7:04:01 AM)

    GW, I don't mind you posting stats, but those are a mess, and you posted just about the same stats in two posts.

    Please clean it up.



    Great White -> RE: Jeff Garcia's future? (1/12/2007 7:38:15 PM)

    CFL_FAN_7,
     
                      I give-up man, you cannot even read my posts correctly or refuse to admite I am talking about his first-3 Seasons, believe what you want to believe.
    I just wish people defended more important things (themselves from bad governing, from my experiences <how few vote and how few Homesteaders take voting serious> from working many times at my local poll) like they defend their celebrity heroes. Yes, I am stereotyping Marauders and CFL_FAN_7.



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