offense vanished (Full Version)

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november -> offense vanished (1/11/2007 5:35:44 PM)

My current association is heading for the crapper unless I can understand what’s happening.

I started in ’52 with real players and 16 fictional teams. Through the fifties and sixties things went pretty well. But now in the 70’s offense has evaporated.

Rick Monday was MVP for ’76 with these stats: .256, 35, 88

This has been the norm for 4-5 seasons. Pitching dominates. An ERA over 3 is pretty bad.

I started an association in 1903 and had the opposite problem. 10 or so players had 35-40 homers by midseason.

How do I ensure realistic stats? I had planned to sim my ’52 association through 2007 but if I can’t fix it, I’ll put it away.

I have 2007 with the 151 patch.



Amaroq -> RE: offense vanished (1/11/2007 6:22:27 PM)

November,

PureSim has built into its facility the ability for the balance between offense and defense to change. We've seen this in real life, with hitting dominant in some decades, and pitching dominant in others.

This feature harkens back to the early days of PS - when all you could play with were fictional players, and there was very little focus on 'historical play'.

I suspect that it hasn't been 'turned off' for replay mode, and your association has just trended towards the 'pitching dominant' extreme. For people who are really looking for historical accuracy twenty years into a replay career, maybe we should have that exposed as a variable that we can turn on or off?

You might send your saved game in for Shaun to take a look at, to make sure my inexpert diagnosis is correct... [;)]

Regarding the 35-40 homers by midseason in 1903, I've found that the key factor is the ballparks. The default PureSim ballparks include some odd 250-foot parks, basically little high school stadiums, and even in the deadball era you'll see guys hit a ton of home runs in those. Even if you use modern ballparks in the 280'-405' range, you'll still get home runs that feel like 'modern' totals. However, if you take the time to research and utilize historically-sized ballparks - and some of them are monsters, things with 400' foul lines and 600' straight away center fields, you'll immediately see deadball-era numbers: I had a guy with 6 home runs lead my association in 1905 after starting in 1901.

Hope that helps..



Amaroq -> RE: offense vanished (1/11/2007 6:23:06 PM)

Shaun, it seems like every year or so we get at least one person complaining about this - maybe the feature should be tuned down a bit, as well?



november -> RE: offense vanished (1/11/2007 6:45:18 PM)

There’s a feature that can be turned off? Where can I find it?

Also, I’m NOT complaining. I’m asking a question. If I don’t like the answer, I’ll put the game away without coming here again. Chalk it up to that’s life.



Amaroq -> RE: offense vanished (1/11/2007 7:02:34 PM)

No, its not currently a feature that can be turned off; I was suggesting that perhaps it should be.

And I didn't mean any negative connotation to 'complaining'. I could possibly have used the word 'distressed', 'confused', or 'unhappy'. I apologize if I caused offense with poor word choice. [:(]

If this is an issue that can/will cost Shaun your future business, I'm sure he appreciates having it brought to his attention.



november -> RE: offense vanished (1/11/2007 7:15:36 PM)

So PSB is essentially for fantasy-type sims? With fantasy players?

Well, I intend to go that route once I’ve mastered the game. Dunno—league evolution may be a neat feature. But does this mean that PSBB cannot sim realism? If so, this seems like a limiting feature when compared to other products that can do both.



PadresFan104 -> RE: offense vanished (1/11/2007 7:59:20 PM)

november -

PSBB was initially designed for fictional associations, with support for real players (via the Lahman DB) added later.

Also, I challenge you to name a game that simulates real seasons like Diamond Mind Baseball or Strat-O-Matic or Action!PC, AND provides support for fictional associations to the extent that PureSim does. I don't think this game exists. The "replay" games I mention do not rely on importing data from a DB like Lahman, these companies actually reseach each season and player, allowing them to provide greater statistical accuracy to the player.

Games like PSBB and OOTP, which provide a hybrid (Real & Fictional) approach, rely on deriving player ratings from the Lahman DB, thus giving us the ability to use real players. The players, however, will not necessarily produce sim-like stats, given the fact they cannot be as modeled as accurately as in the otehr games. As long as you are able to take the good (all-players from all seasons are available at no extra cost) with the bad (the players may not perform exactly as they did in real life), then PSBB is a good game for historical play.



november -> RE: offense vanished (1/12/2007 12:27:09 AM)

Sure, I can take deviation from actual stats—within reason. In my ’52 sim, Mantle hit 70 homers in 1960 and that’s fine.

What isn’t fine (for realistic replays) is when the league evolves into something far, far from actual stats, such as what I’m seeing in my sim.

Evolving fantasy leagues may be a cool idea, a nice feature. But if I had known that PSBB evolves all sims regardless of whether or not they are fantasy-based, I would not have bought it. I want the option of turning such a feature on or off.

Until I discovered this “feature” I was having more fun with PSBB than I ever did with OOP6. I got as much depth for much less effort. Plus the Almanac meant I could do away with running Cato myself.

I find it hard to believe that you can’t run a realistic sim for more than one or two decades.



PadresFan104 -> RE: offense vanished (1/12/2007 12:51:52 AM)

Ok, now I see what you are saying. Starting with a particular season, say in the 50's, and having the first few years be fine, but then having the statistical norm in future years deviate from what really happened... or what the real averages for certain stats were like in that time period. Interesting. As was already said, these offense/defense fluctuations may just be a part of the simulation model that weren't changed for the Replay mode... Will be interesting to see what Shaun has to say on the matter.



Amaroq -> RE: offense vanished (1/12/2007 4:22:32 AM)

november - please don't assume from a single run of the game that that is the behavior you'll get every single time! I've had plenty of 20+ year careers which were close enough to historical stats to keep me happy; in fact, I've never had an association go into the extreme mode which you're seeing - I only know it can happen because I've seen very occasional posts, like yours.

I'm sure if you ran it three more times, none of the three would plunge to the depths you're currently seeing.

After thinking about it a bit more, I doubt anybody who sets up a 'Replay' or 'Seed with players from ...' career wants to see this sort of deviation from historical norms for periods where the game is pulling Lahman data; maybe it doesn't need to be an option, but simply disabled for Lahman-seeded games (at least until the data runs out).



KG Erwin -> RE: offense vanished (1/12/2007 4:41:58 AM)

THIS is why I opted to go for a long-term "everyday" manager association that would end in a particular time-frame. IF I can do it, I'll manage my team for 10-15 years, and then "retire".

I don't know how many guys have tried to sim the entire history of the majors, but I'd think that somewhere along the line there must be a "breaking point", whether using fictional or historical players. If using finances "ON", I could envisage it happening even sooner. How far can you stretch the financial model? Really. In the year 2050, you could have individual players making $100 million or more per year. To put it another way, how many zeroes can the game allow for? Billion-dollar payrolls? [X(]



lynchjm24 -> RE: offense vanished (1/12/2007 5:48:50 AM)

It's pretty easy to turn off inflation.



KG Erwin -> RE: offense vanished (1/12/2007 7:21:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lynchjm24

It's pretty easy to turn off inflation.


Yes -- I don't use finances, period. Aside from that, though, the long-term performance levels is what bothers some gamers. I regard myself as a "short-term" simmer. Maybe I'm in a distinct minority. In any case, it's gonna take me a long long time before I notice any abnormalities. Using historical players with game-produced ratings, I may notice none at all. I readily accept the fact that an alternative historical universe will give me ahistorical statistical results.

I don't wanna rag on november, but is he using generic ballparks? The game DID change from the 50s to the 70s. 4-man rotations or 5? Realistic closer usage on or off? There are SO many variables to consider that any one gamer's experience can be vastly different from another's, but still be consistent within the game code itself.



Dirtdog20 -> RE: offense vanished (1/17/2007 9:17:20 PM)

I am running an association that started in 2006 and is using fictional players added into the real players. I am in 2009 and the K leader has 685.

The ERA leader for starters is 0.85 Bunches of pitchers below 2.

I have 50+ homers for several players and high averages also.

I had a player this year throw a perfect game. 88 pitches, 27K's.





Dirtdog20 -> RE: offense vanished (1/17/2007 9:20:39 PM)

Sorry forgot to add that I am using the ball park packs and graphics.



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