Please help (very newbie) (Full Version)

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bostonrpgmania -> Please help (very newbie) (1/19/2007 9:20:03 AM)

I got this game around the time when I got Korsun pocket at retail store when it was fisrt released
At that time UV was too much for me and it still maybe
but now I am trying to give it a second change

Now I read the manual but decided to learn the game more by doing it

Now I selected the first scenario

What I cannot understand is how AI works in this game

For example, I have several airplanes in Port Moresy

I did not give them any specific hex to attach

but when I push end turn (without doing much. Just ordered TF to move near Gli Gli) and when my order is executed

My plane is attacking japenes base near LAE

Definitely I dint order anything...So how I control this "AI controlled airplane" and WHY they are attacking the Japense base without any specific order from my side?

Any help would be appreciated






Denniss -> RE: Please help (very newbie) (1/19/2007 10:43:40 AM)

You have to set all airgroups to stand down or training to have them do nothing than that. Otherwise they usually have CAP orders or attack nearby bases on choice of the units commander.



tocaff -> RE: Please help (very newbie) (1/19/2007 1:08:57 PM)

The planes that attacked are set as a default for naval attack (primary) and airfield (secondary with an altitude of 6K ft.  You must give the commands to all active forces that you want them to do and then for the most part it will be done.



bostonrpgmania -> RE: Please help (very newbie) (1/19/2007 6:23:49 PM)

Thank you
That helps a bit

but I still have questions
Suppose there are two bases. If I do not give any order but default CAP, we do not know which base my CAP unit would attack
Am I correct?



Reg -> RE: Please help (very newbie) (1/20/2007 1:42:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: bostonrpgmania

I got this game around the time when I got Korsun pocket at retail store when it was fisrt released
At that time UV was too much for me and it still maybe
but now I am trying to give it a second change

Now I read the manual but decided to learn the game more by doing it

Now I selected the first scenario

What I cannot understand is how AI works in this game


First of all you must understand your role in this game. You are not acting as the captain of every ship or the squadron leader commanding every flying unit. You are General MacArthur sitting in his bunker in Brisbane or Admiral Nimitz sitting behind his desk in Pearl Harbor.

You do not command your airplanes to attack, your carriers to launch or your ships to steam. Your orders are simply what you want done and these orders are directed at the local unit commanders (represented by the program artifical intelligence (AI)). These local commanders may or may not do what you want depending on what they perceive is sensible based on local conditions. For instance, medium bombers will not launch a strike unless they have an adequate number of escort fighters to overcome the CAP at the target. You don't see this, all you see is they did not attack when you told them to!! Ships may not end up where you want based their orders (see manual on task force orders), range to destination and remaining fuel etc. Be warned, the local commanders opinion on what is the most important target may not be the same as yours.

The forums are full of complaints that if the player were in charge of that unit, they would have done something different. Welcome to the real world!! I can only imagine how many times Nimitz would have said something similar about his subordinates.

quote:


For example, I have several airplanes in Port Moresy

I did not give them any specific hex to attach

but when I push end turn (without doing much. Just ordered TF to move near Gli Gli) and when my order is executed

My plane is attacking japenes base near LAE

Definitely I dint order anything...So how I control this "AI controlled airplane" and WHY they are attacking the Japense base without any specific order from my side?

Any help would be appreciated



If you look closely at the Aircraft orders screen, you will see that that the target is not blank, it says "Commanders Discretion". This means you have left the choice of target up to the local commander though you can be more specific and give a target. Giving the local commander discretion will allow him to react immediately if an opportunity develops which may be gone by the time you can give orders for the next turn. To repeat the caveate above, the local commanders opinion on what is the most important target may not be the same as yours. As previously stated, to prevent aircraft flying, use the stand down button.

quote:


Suppose there are two bases. If I do not give any order but default CAP, we do not know which base my CAP unit would attack
Am I correct?


Combat Air Patrol (CAP) are fighters on patrol above their HOME BASE. These aircraft are not available for offensive missions like escort , sweep etc. This means if you have a 24 plane unit on 50% CAP, 12 planes will be available to intercept incoming air raids on their HOME BASE and 12 will be available to escort bombers. Not all 12 planes on CAP will be in the air at the same but can scramble to meet incoming raids. How many do so is dependant on many factors like fatigue, number of radars at base etc.

The long range CAP (LRCAP) mission allows you to put CAP over another hex. However, the number of aircraft who usually intercept is lower and it fatigues units quickly due to the real life difficulties involved in maintaining a distant patrol. A tip: if you put a fighter unit on LRCAP and leave it on Commanders Discretion, the unit may automatically cover any friendly task forces within range. Very handy if a supply convoy is coming in to a hostile area and you want fighter cover over it without you having to intervene. To repeat the caveate above, the local commanders opinion on what is the most important target may not be the same as yours so you may choose to specifically order the unit to cover that task force if it is important.

The number on planes you put on CAP is a judgement call. Too little CAP and the enemy bombers will get through and destroy you on the ground. Too much CAP and you will fatigue your pilots and won't have enough aircraft for offensive operations (remember bombers will not fly without adequate escort!!)

So, after all that I still have not given any hard and fast answers, only things to consider. This is what makes this such a great game as you will still be trying to find the right balance many games from now.



bostonrpgmania -> RE: Please help (very newbie) (1/20/2007 6:27:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Reg


First of all you must understand your role in this game. You are not acting as the captain of every ship or the squadron leader commanding every flying unit. You are General MacArthur sitting in his bunker in Brisbane or Admiral Nimitz sitting behind his desk in Pearl Harbor.

You do not command your airplanes to attack, your carriers to launch or your ships to steam. Your orders are simply what you want done and these orders are directed at the local unit commanders (represented by the program artifical intelligence (AI)). These local commanders may or may not do what you want depending on what they perceive is sensible based on local conditions. For instance, medium bombers will not launch a strike unless they have an adequate number of escort fighters to overcome the CAP at the target. You don't see this, all you see is they did not attack when you told them to!! Ships may not end up where you want based their orders (see manual on task force orders), range to destination and remaining fuel etc. Be warned, the local commanders opinion on what is the most important target may not be the same as yours.

The forums are full of complaints that if the player were in charge of that unit, they would have done something different. Welcome to the real world!! I can only imagine how many times Nimitz would have said something similar about his subordinates.


Thank you Reg for clarification
This makes a lot of things clearer to me. When I read reviews of this game, some were complaining about extremem micro management of the game.
That gave me the impression that I should be responsible for everything happening in game. Now I understand It was not.




DEB -> RE: Please help (very newbie) (1/20/2007 11:58:18 PM)

Further to Reg's ( brilliant ) comments.

This game can be difficult to grasp because of the level of "control" you can choose ( or do not choose ) when playing. The more you attempt to control your units the more enjoyment ( & frustration ) you will get.
( The frustration is of course finding out that your "junior" commanders do not always do what you want then to do - as Reg stated several times; and that the two AI levels used by the computer opponent really seem to conspire against you quite a lot! )

I would really recommend reading completely through the rules. I know it is a lot to read & comprehend, and it will not all make sense at once, but it is the best way to learn this one. There is so much you can choose ( or not choose ) to do; and so much that the AI can do for you ( and will do
for you if you don't attempt to control it yourself ). You really need to grasp these things, as well as the various info. available on the numerous info. screens, and where to find them.

Good luck.



Reg -> RE: Please help (very newbie) (1/21/2007 12:11:28 AM)

The reviews were right in that there IS a lot of micro management in the game.

For that B-25 unit to lauch a strike, it needs fuel and bombs (supplies), maintenance support (aviation support squads in base units), the correct size airfield (size 4 minimum for level bombers I think - check the manual) and the pilots need to be rested (low fatigue). It is your responsibility to provide all these things. To get them in place you have to arrange shipping to move the Base Force up from Brisbane along with some engineers to enlarge the airfield, individual AKs have to be formed into task forces and loaded with supplies before being ordered to the base in question. The port has to be large enough to handle the shipping (another job for the engineers if not). Even with everything is in place, you have to keep an eye on things to ensure that adequate levels are maintained.

This doesn't even include providing escorts/CAP/AAA to ensure the enemy doesn't interfere with the process (which is what the commander is usually responsible for).

I'm sure MacArthur/Nimitz had a logistics staff to handle this in real life and Nimitz definately was not responsible for determining the loads of individual freighters.

However, these tasks give the player control on how the game develops and can be justified as planning decisions anyway. I found the combat units generally do what you want and if they don't there will be a reason.

Stick with it as this game really is worth playing and shows that the Pacific war was more about freighters than carriers (despite what the books say....)



Reg -> RE: Please help (very newbie) (1/21/2007 1:07:02 AM)

Thanks for your comments DEB.

I totally agree with you. To be honest I haven't read a review yet that really captures the essence of the game which is the interaction with the virtual subordinates that you expressed much more succinctly than I did.

Most reviews just concentrate on the scale of the game and micromanagement aspects which is what Bostonrpgmania picked up on. Another aspect of reviews which I'm not impressed with is the idea that the game is broken without patches. Not true as the game plays just fine stock, it's just better with patches and gives a bad impression to people considering the purchase of the game.

Bostonrpgmania:

As DEB said, set up a few computer supply convoys and the war will run itself as the local commanders act on their standing orders. The best way to avoid player frustration is to read the manual and be aware of what the local commander is likely to to do under certain situations. That way you won't be surprised when they refuse to obey your orders and do something more important to them.

I should have mentioned that to make it easier for the player, there is computer computer control available for resupply convoys. As always if it is important, don't trust it to anyone else as opinion is divided as to the effectiveness of the virtual supply officer (remember his priorities may be different from yours). Still, this is easy compared to the supply model in War in the Pacific where you have to get those cans of beans from San Francisco to Okinawa rather than just up from Brisbane.



bostonrpgmania -> RE: Please help (very newbie) (1/21/2007 3:10:49 AM)

Thank you guys
I dont know why all these are not included in the manual
I have another newbie question for CAP or LCAP


So CAP is mainly for defensive operation and airplanes performing cap defend ONE hex where their base is located
LCAP is said to be defending friendly units in other hexes (range)---> How many hexes are covered?'n
Also is it related to 'normal range' or extended range of the selected air unit or irrelevant?

Many thanks in advance



Reg -> RE: Please help (very newbie) (1/21/2007 5:09:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Manual p40

Long Range CAP - The air unit’s aircraft will fly combat air patrol over all friendly units in a hex other than the one containing the air unit’s base. Long Range CAP will attempt to intercept any enemy planes flying into the hex containing the Long Range CAP. The amount of fighters protecting the friendly units at the moment of an enemy airstrike is based on the range to the hex being protected and the normal radius of the aircraft flying Long Range CAP. Long Range CAP over Air Combat TF’s is only 20% as effective as over other units since it’s harder to coordinate with an Air Combat TF that is constantly changing course and is using radio silence. When Long Range CAP is set as the mission, the unit’s CAP level is set to 100.


The above quote indicates only one hex is covered. I have heard reports of intercepts in adjacent hexes* but I've never seen it so don't count on it and treat it as a bonus if it happens.

LRCAP can definately occur up to normal range but less aircraft will intercept the further the distance (see quote above). I was getting about 5 out of 24 to intercept at 5 hexes range. As for LRCAP at extended range, try and see (I can't know everything....)

(* The reports may have been for normal CAP or for WITP, its hard to remember).



bostonrpgmania -> RE: Please help (very newbie) (1/21/2007 9:01:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Reg

quote:

ORIGINAL: Manual p40

Long Range CAP - The air unit’s aircraft will fly combat air patrol over all friendly units in a hex other than the one containing the air unit’s base. Long Range CAP will attempt to intercept any enemy planes flying into the hex containing the Long Range CAP. The amount of fighters protecting the friendly units at the moment of an enemy airstrike is based on the range to the hex being protected and the normal radius of the aircraft flying Long Range CAP. Long Range CAP over Air Combat TF’s is only 20% as effective as over other units since it’s harder to coordinate with an Air Combat TF that is constantly changing course and is using radio silence. When Long Range CAP is set as the mission, the unit’s CAP level is set to 100.


The above quote indicates only one hex is covered. I have heard reports of intercepts in adjacent hexes* but I've never seen it so don't count on it and treat it as a bonus if it happens.

LRCAP can definately occur up to normal range but less aircraft will intercept the further the distance (see quote above). I was getting about 5 out of 24 to intercept at 5 hexes range. As for LRCAP at extended range, try and see (I can't know everything....)

(* The reports may have been for normal CAP or for WITP, its hard to remember).



Thank you so much for clarification
This game, eventually, makes more and more sense to me
after long 4 or 5 years


I think my next headache would be about logistics.
Any helpful articles for newbie about how logistics works in the game would be highly appreciated [&o][&o][&o][:D]



Reg -> RE: Please help (very newbie) (1/21/2007 12:24:25 PM)

Jeez, how am I going to explain this one in 10 words or less...

I think you really should have a good read of the manual but in a nutshell if you intend to perform just about any activity such as ground combat, building bases, launching aircraft etc it will consume supplies and performance of these activities will suffer if these supplies aren't available.  (Section 17 and various references around the manual will give the details of this). If the supplies number in any base information screen in not white, then you have a problem (or soon will have).

Consequently you will need to arrange shipment of the required supplies from the warehouses in Brisbane and Noumea to the forward bases. Supplies automatically move by road but this is only useful on the mainland so the majority will have to be shipped by you using AK (Freighters). You can also set up computer controlled regular runs and will find Section 8.11 useful in this regard. 

Remember ships burn fuel and if you intend to operate ships from forward bases, you will need to ship fuel there first. Works the same as supplies but you use tankers.  Oilers (AO) can replenish task forces at sea, see the Replenishment mission in Section 8.6 of the manual.

Work out where the majority of your activities are to occur and ship enough supplies to that location to keep the supply total in the white.  Pretty simple really.

That should be enough to get you started.
Best of luck, 



tocaff -> RE: Please help (very newbie) (1/21/2007 4:14:04 PM)

Nothing worse than having the assets but no fuel or supplies.



DEB -> RE: Please help (very newbie) (1/21/2007 6:17:40 PM)

Re logistics.

Reg is correct. Reading & understanding the rules is the only way to get this organised. In particular:

a) understand how to set up AI controlled supply convoys, to minimise your micro management. This is important.

b) understand how to set up AI controlled barge supply runs via the barge hubs, to minimise your micro management. (Hands up anyone out there that understands it 100% ! ) Also important.

c) use AP's for supply runs when it does not interfere with your troop transportation. Useful.

d) use C-47 aircraft, particularly to inland bases. They may not carry much per turn but they do get there quicker. Remember to rotate the squadrons though ( 2 on, 1 off ? ) or fatigue will cause losses. Useful.

e) remember subs can do transport runs too, supplies are best as they don't carry much of anything else. Nice if you can spare them.



bostonrpgmania -> RE: Please help (very newbie) (1/21/2007 10:40:59 PM)

thank you all for posts
I think I found a gem of wargaming here



bostonrpgmania -> Deployment (1/25/2007 8:06:35 PM)

Now that I understood (at least I tought so) the basic mechanics of gameplay
I tried to tackle the very first scenario, battle of the coral sea.


There was already three task forces (air combat and surface combat I think) created so I basically set them to move to GliGli and Port Moresy.
one more tak force from Austrailia

But what can I do with Port Moresy while they got bambardment from Japanese air raid?
Port Moresy and Buna seems to be overwhelemd and there is nothing that I can do about this?

Second question; when my task force arrived at the scene, alas, they got bambarded by enemy forces and by turn 7 or 8, my score is half the japanese I think ...What a shame,,,,is there any good AAR for this short scenario where I can run tactics?

Third question; coast watch<---How this works? In eneny controlled territory, binocular pops up and it says that spotted enemy ships. Is this a spy? (sorry for my ignorance..)






Terminus -> RE: Deployment (1/25/2007 10:07:32 PM)

The Coastwatchers were Allied agents stationed on islands in Japanese territory, who had radios and could report on enemy fleet movements. Some were residents of their islands, others were inserted later.



Reg -> RE: Deployment (1/25/2007 10:47:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

The Coastwatchers were Allied agents stationed on islands in Japanese territory, who had radios and could report on enemy fleet movements. Some were residents of their islands, others were inserted later.

For further information http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coastwatchers

(BTW It was an Australian organisation set up before the war)



Reg -> RE: Deployment (1/25/2007 11:53:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bostonrpgmania

But what can I do with Port Moresy while they got bambardment from Japanese air raid?
Port Moresy and Buna seems to be overwhelemd and there is nothing that I can do about this?


1. Not much you can do about it at this stage af the war as the Allies are poorly equipped and on the defensive. Feel lucky you have fighters at all because they only have just arrived. (The were nick-named 'Neverhawks' in Port Moresby because they were never going to show up).

Buna is basically indefensible. The airfield is poor, supplies are low and it would risk the more important PM to divert scarce units to defend Buna. Also how are you going to get Engineers, supplies and a base force to Buna. The Kokoda Trail (track?) from PM to Buna is hardly a major supply line, and Miss Betty will deal with any supply convoy going by sea.

Port Moresby has to be defended as best you can. Historically this is accurate. Keep your squadrons fresh (low fatigue) by juggling CAP percentages and standing down were possible (during bad weather??) and consider rotating in fresh units from the mainland. Hopefully the airfield will stay in good condition (engineers help) and you won't lose too many aircraft on the ground. No-one said this is going to be easy and expect casualties.

Supply convoys are vulnerable but necessary. Big convoys attract a lot of attention and take a long time to unload. Consider LRCAP to protect them on the way in (though I found they were usually hit while unloading).

The only real defence is to wear down the Rabaul based bomber squadrons. Run them out of supplies (blockade supply convoys from Truk), damage their airfields (heavy bomber raids), attrit their pilots (inflict casualties) so their standard fall. All this is obviously way beyond Allied capabilities in May'42 and definately not possible in the short timeframe of the Coral Sea scenario.

quote:

Second question; when my task force arrived at the scene, alas, they got bambarded by enemy forces and by turn 7 or 8, my score is half the japanese I think ...What a shame,,,,is there any good AAR for this short scenario where I can run tactics?


2. Once again, as per posts above, you only send your carriers into an area with orders to engage the enemy and from that point on you just hope and pray your task force commander knows his stuff. It has a lot to do with luck as to who spots the enemy and gets the first strike off but you can set up favorable conditions. I'm no expert so read the forums to the best advice but be warned, this is early war and the IJN is at their peak and the USN is only starting to develop their tactics. Japanese carrier planes also have longer range so can effectively strike from further away (big advantage).

Another other thing to consider is that this is a short scenario based on a single engagement. In a real war, 'you win a few, lose a few' and providing you are achieving your overall aims each encounter does not take on such momumental proportions. I would recommend playing the longer scenarios for this reason.

quote:

Third question; coast watch<---How this works? In eneny controlled territory, binocular pops up and it says that spotted enemy ships. Is this a spy? (sorry for my ignorance..)


3. Answered in posts above. No intervention required, you just get sighting reports for Japanese forces in coastal hexes.

BTW, I would think carefully before bringing your Air Combat TF within range of the full strength Rabaul LBA (Land based air). Historically it was risky:

quote:

ORIGINAL: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Coral_Sea

That night, Fletcher, mindful his primary role was to protect Port Moresby, made the difficult decision to detach his main surface force, Task Force 44 under Australian Rear Admiral John Crace, to block the probable course of an invasion. Crace had cruisers HMAS Australia, HMAS Hobart, and USS Chicago, and the destroyers USS Perkins, USS Walke, and USS Farragut. Fletcher and Crace knew exposing surface ships to attack by land-based aircraft, without air cover, risked a repeat of the loss of HMS Prince of Wales and HMS Repulse five months before. Their fears were nearly realized when the cruisers were spotted and came under an intense air attack from a squadron of torpedo bombers on the afternoon of May 7. Whether due to luck or skill, the ships escaped with few casualties and little damage. Only minutes after the Japanese raid, Crace's force was inadvertently attacked by friendly B-17s; Farragut and Perkins once again had to endure near misses.


And in game terms, CAP over your carriers will massacre any incoming Bettys but a 'leaker' or two will likely get through and put a fish into one of your flattops. Probably won't sink her but will put her out of action for months..... As for point 2 above you have to wear them down first. This won't happen in a short game and remember the aim of the scenario, which is to prevent invasion of PM.

Best of luck,



Jakerson -> RE: Deployment (1/26/2007 1:35:29 AM)

It also helps to read some historical material about Pacific War and battle of Guadalcanal. This helps to understand the nature of war and after you understand nature of war and its history its much more enjoyable play the game also.

I also had hard time first understand UV as I was very used to play games about land war and I really did not understand totally different concept of Island hopping type of warfare where air force, ships and ports logistics have major role and land troops have secondary role.

Logistics is what really won the war in pacific after Japanese bases where cut off from supply they where beaten.



bostonrpgmania -> RE: Deployment (1/26/2007 9:05:53 AM)

Reg

Thank you so much for your incredible help

It really helped me a lot[&o][&o]




bostonrpgmania -> RE: Deployment (1/26/2007 9:09:55 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jakerson

It also helps to read some historical material about Pacific War and battle of Guadalcanal. This helps to understand the nature of war and after you understand nature of war and its history its much more enjoyable play the game also.

I also had hard time first understand UV as I was very used to play games about land war and I really did not understand totally different concept of Island hopping type of warfare where air force, ships and ports logistics have major role and land troops have secondary role.

Logistics is what really won the war in pacific after Japanese bases where cut off from supply they where beaten.


Indeed. I am also from land based wargame. In that game, units move when I order them to and do not move if I do not touch them. What a difference here in UV [:D]
I bought a book titled "The Pacific War From Pearl Harbor to Hiroshima edied by Daniel Marston
It has an Article by Robert Love--Title is The hight of folly; the batte of the coral sea and mid way

I saw a picture of Admiral Fletcher who I become familiar from UV's loading scene
What an educational value this game has [:D]



Lopo -> RE: Deployment (1/26/2007 11:38:01 AM)

Bostonrpgmania,

If you are looking for good books on Pacific War, try to read "Eagle against the Sun. The American War with Japan" by Ronald H. Spector... It's an excellent book! Of all I have read about the subject, it's one of the best in my opinion.

Take care



bostonrpgmania -> RE: Deployment (1/26/2007 6:52:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lopo

Bostonrpgmania,

If you are looking for good books on Pacific War, try to read "Eagle against the Sun. The American War with Japan" by Ronald H. Spector... It's an excellent book! Of all I have read about the subject, it's one of the best in my opinion.

Take care


I will search through amazon.ca and thank you for the information
Is it good for UV setting as well? The article I mentioned had some detailed decription of TF and their manuver of battle of the coral sea. I expecte this book has much deeper description?



Lopo -> RE: Deployment (1/26/2007 11:36:14 PM)

Bostonrpgmania,

"Eagle against the Sun" gives a nice discussion of many of the small controversies which appear during the War in the Pacific... I repeat; it is an excellent book for who wants to understand all in all this period...
If you are looking for a book about CV's maneuvers in the area of UV, I advice you next titles:
"Battle of the Coral Sea" by Chris Henry,
"Carrier Clash. The invasion of Guadalcanal & the Battle of the Eastern Solomons. August 1942" and "Carrier Strike. The Battle of the Santa Cruz Islands. October 1942", both by Eric Hammel.
Enjoy reading!
 
Take care



anarchyintheuk -> RE: Deployment (1/27/2007 12:35:09 AM)

To avoid potential frustration make sure you completely understand what the patrol/retire settings do on the tf display.



bostonrpgmania -> RE: Deployment (1/27/2007 8:03:07 AM)

Small AAR of Scenario 1

Finally after many years, I finished my first game of UV--first scenario
I was US. Difficulty--Historical
Result: Japanese' marginal *******






*******=victory. So I lost.


But it was fun. I lost Buna and Gli Gli but was able to inflict serious damages to IJN.
At earlier turns, point gap was as high as 500 but in the end I shrank it to 200 (due to many help from this forum)


I think for a longer scenario, this game seems a lot about preparation (of war) and then implementation of the plan. Much more so than decisive battles series








bostonrpgmania -> RE: Deployment (2/1/2007 9:47:14 AM)

My second game AAR --scenario 1

I tackled the same scenario tonight
The result was draw
My point was 1890
Jap's point 1842

My Yorktown sunk by torpedo
but
Shokaku was sunk by airraid 1000lb bomb

i stationed my air combat taskforce south of Gligli but around turn 13, York Town was sunk
I transfered a lot of air craft to port moresy and this worked well for this game

I think now I understand the surface of the game mechanics
I dont know how many game I have to play to feel comfortable about the game play



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