RE: Small Ship, Big War (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> After Action Reports



Message


tocaff -> RE: Small Ship, Big War (10/25/2008 11:59:07 AM)

Situation normal aboard Hibiki with all of her crew.

I still can't get over what a wonderful job you do telling your tale.  CF, you've really outdone yourself with this and I can't even call it an AAR because in truth it's so much more. There are others out there whose AARs are enjoyable to track, but your story is nothing short of masterful.  Thanks for the time and effort you put into this for our enjoyment.  Kudos.......

I'd like to offer my services to you if you ever feel the need for some research for this work of art and find that your time prohibits you from conducting it. Sort of my way of paying you back for what you've been giving to me. You've got my email.




princep01 -> RE: Small Ship, Big War (10/25/2008 3:52:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

Poor, poor Lt. Miharu....walked right into the trap...and it seems it 'snapped' shut on him. [:D]



Heehee.....I see your point, but think the result was more of a "monsoon of tears" than the violence a "flight of cook vessels and other handy objects":).




Shark7 -> RE: Small Ship, Big War (10/25/2008 5:26:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: princep01


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

Poor, poor Lt. Miharu....walked right into the trap...and it seems it 'snapped' shut on him. [:D]



Heehee.....I see your point, but think the result was more of a "monsoon of tears" than the violence a "flight of cook vessels and other handy objects":).


Either way, the end result is the same...as we have seen. hehehe [X(]




kaleun -> RE: Small Ship, Big War (10/26/2008 5:10:15 PM)

quote:

a "monsoon of tears" than the violence a "flight of cook vessels and other handy objects":).


Princep01: I now know who you are!

George R Martin: Get off this forum immediately and finish "Dance of Dragons"[;)]

Seriously, I love a great turn of phrase and those two are spectacular (If you are not George R Martin.




John 3rd -> RE: Small Ship, Big War (10/27/2008 10:36:43 PM)

Kaleun--I am a HUGE fan of the Martin books and cannot WAIT for the next one! 




Cuttlefish -> RE: Small Ship, Big War (10/28/2008 12:34:44 AM)

September 7, 1944

Location: Osaka/Kobe
Course: None
Attached to: Disbanded in port
Mission: None
System Damage: 3
Float Damage: 0
Fires: 0
Fuel: 475

Orders: Undergo refit at Kobe

---

“I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor, dumb bastard die for his country.” General George S. Patton, whose Third Army has just crossed the Meuse River in northern France, has never uttered these exact words, which will be made famous in a movie twenty-six years from now. He has, however, said things rather similar and there is little doubt that the quote nicely sums up Patton’s attitude.

Captain Ishii has never met or even heard of General Patton. He would, however, agree with the quote if he ever heard it.

---

“I would like to help sink an enemy battleship before I die,” says a lieutenant commander named Kaku. He and several other officers, Ishii included, are discussing the war situation at a reception at the Kobe Naval Headquarters. “Or better still, an aircraft carrier!”

“It is unlikely the enemy will offer you that chance,” says Lieutenant Commander Hajime, captain of Hibiki’s surviving sister ship Inazuma. “What is important is that we face death bravely, in whatever battle it comes.” The conversation continues in this vein for several minutes, until finally Ishii can stand it no longer.

“I hear a lot of talk about dying,” he says. “While I respect the spirit behind it, I must disagree. We are naval officers. It is not our job to die, it is our job to destroy the enemy.”

“You have been out there, Ishii,” says Hajime. “You know what we are facing. Tell me you are not among those fools who still talk of sweeping the enemy from the seas!”

“Of course not,” says Ishii. “Our resources are too limited and theirs too great. But that is why we must preserve our forces, not throw them away in some quest to die bravely. All this talk of dying, I hear it everywhere. Bah! I mean to keep fighting. If my ship is sunk I will find another and continue. Dying is what the enemy wants us to do! “

“Are you a coward, then?” asks Kaku. The gathering goes very quiet. Hajime, who knows Ishii fairly well, eyes him nervously.

Ishii tosses back his drink. “If you were a real officer and not a shore-bound pencil pusher I might take offense at that,” he says softly. “Instead all I have to say is this. I have the courage to face whatever comes, even defeat. Can you say the same?” He sets down his glass and walks from the room.





princep01 -> RE: Small Ship, Big War (10/28/2008 2:13:06 AM)

The truly brave man simply walks away from the ignorant fool.  Well done, brave Captain.




Capt. Harlock -> RE: Small Ship, Big War (10/28/2008 8:23:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: princep01

The truly brave man simply walks away from the ignorant fool. Well done, brave Captain.


Perhaps -- but it's not the classic Japanese attitude, which prefers death to defeat. Let's hope this doesn't get back to the secret police . . .




vettim89 -> RE: Small Ship, Big War (10/28/2008 9:01:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Capt. Harlock


quote:

ORIGINAL: princep01

The truly brave man simply walks away from the ignorant fool. Well done, brave Captain.


Perhaps -- but it's not the classic Japanese attitude, which prefers death to defeat. Let's hope this doesn't get back to the secret police . . .


The Japanese vs Western view on so many issues led to WWII and so many misunderstandings. One Japanese officer denying the jurisdiction of the War Crimes Tribunal said that if the Japanese had won the war LeMay and others would be on trial for crimes against teh Japanese citizenry. We as Westerners rail against the Rape of Nanking yet turn a blind eye to the hundreds of thousands of Japanese civilians burned to death by LeMay's fire bombing campaign.

The concept of defeat and surrender could not be more polar opposites when considering the Western view vs. Japanese. The Allies saw no shame in surrendering when faced with a hopeless situation. Our view is that the mindless sacrifice of men's lives with no hope of success would be dereliction of duty on part of the commanders. The Japanese view would be that it would be shameful for a commander to even ask his men to dishonor themselves by surrendering. The poor treatment of PoW's by the Japanese was rooted in the belief that this men had shamed themselves and their familes with such a dishonarble act as surrender that they did not deserve to be treated well.

So having many Japanese officers and enlisted men believe that death is preferabel to defeat is very in keeping with their mindset. A person could make the point that true courage is admitting you are defeated as opposed to mindless sacrifice for no reason. Read Seas of Thinder recently where the premise that Kurita's withdraw at Leyte Gulf was a carefully orchestrated ruse to save his men and ships from a pointless sacrifice.




FeurerKrieg -> RE: Small Ship, Big War (10/28/2008 9:30:29 PM)

Recently read Seas of Thunder myself - pretty good book.




Cuttlefish -> RE: Small Ship, Big War (10/28/2008 11:36:25 PM)

September 8, 1944

Location: Osaka/Kobe
Course: None
Attached to: Disbanded in port
Mission: None
System Damage: 2
Float Damage: 0
Fires: 0
Fuel: 475

Orders: Undergo refit at Kobe

---

The new radar sets are tested and found, after some adjustments, to be working properly. The new anti-aircraft guns are ready. Chief Engineer Sakati reports that he is ready to bring steam back up in the boilers.

From one end of Hibiki to the other yard workers and crewmen finish their tasks. Access hatches are bolted back in place. Cables are coiled and tools and equipment removed. The clutter of work in progress is replaced by swept decks and fresh paint. By tomorrow Hibiki will be ready to return to the war.





Cuttlefish -> RE: Small Ship, Big War (10/28/2008 11:38:01 PM)

September 9, 1944

Location: Osaka/Kobe
Course: None
Attached to: Disbanded in port
Mission: None
System Damage: 0
Float Damage: 0
Fires: 0
Fuel: 475

Orders: Undergo refit at Kobe

---

“We have new orders,” Captain Ishii tells the officers he has gathered in the wardroom for a quick briefing. “We are to remain here until Hiyo finishes her refit and then escort the carrier to Tokyo. Since Hiyo won’t be ready to sail for at least a week that gives us some time for drills. We will gain experience with the new radars and drill the new anti-aircraft crews. Lieutenant Kuwaki, most of this will fall to your section, but I want the rest of you to work your men hard as well.”

There is a chorus of assent from around the table. “Sir,” says Lieutenant Sugiyura, “on the radio a short while ago there was a report that the enemy was landing at Tinian. Have you heard anything further?”

“I have not,” says Ishii. “I know the enemy began their assault this morning but that is all. If you are wondering whether we will be sent south, I doubt it.”

“I understand, sir,” says Sugiyura. “We must draw the enemy in closer before we strike. Which really means that the closer the enemy gets to Japan the closer we are to victory.”

Captain Ishii blinks. “Right,” he says after a moment. “Now back to matters at hand. Lieutenant Miharu, I would like you to coordinate…”





Cuttlefish -> RE: Small Ship, Big War (10/28/2008 11:39:47 PM)

September 10, 1944

Location: Osaka/Kobe
Course: None
Attached to: Disbanded in port
Mission: None
System Damage: 0
Float Damage: 0
Fires: 0
Fuel: 475

Orders: Undergo refit at Kobe

---

Hibiki stalks an unsuspecting freighter plodding along the coast near Kobe. Below decks Taiki peers at his radar scope.

“Range eight-one-eight-zero meters,” comes a voice.

“Radar, confirm,” comes another voice down the speaking tube. Taiki wipes sweat off his brow – it is hot in the small, dimly lit room – and tries to isolate the target from the shore return. He is already discovering that having memorized the manual and the specifications will only take him so far. Reading the scope is as much an art as it is a science.

“Confirmed,” he says after a short delay. “Radar show range as eight-two-zero-zero meters.” The rectangular display has range markings along the bottom but the device is not as precise as the sophisticated optics in the range finder. Other voices add to the background chatter but Taiki screens them out, watching intently for changes in range and bearing. A moment later comes the order to fire. Hibiki’s guns remain silent, of course, and their “prey” continues on its way.

“Slow!” comes Lieutenant Kuwaki’s voice. “Too slow! If that was an enemy destroyer they would have gotten off two salvoes against us before we fired a shot. We will circle around and try that again.”

Taiki sighs and leans back. He looks over at Seaman Oka, seated a few feet away at the Type 13 display. Sweat beads the back of Oka’s neck. “How are you doing, Oka?” he says.

“Fine, Petty Officer,” says Oka. His voice sounds a bit strained. The young sailor had earlier identified the Kobe naval radio transmission tower as an approaching aircraft.

“Don’t worry,” Taiki says. “We will gain skill.”

“Let us begin again,” comes Kuwaki’s voice. Once more the poor freighter is “spotted” and the exercise starts over.





Cribtop -> RE: Small Ship, Big War (10/29/2008 4:33:30 AM)

I do not disagree with the points made below, but would add that there is a contrary Western tradition of facing death bravely rather than surrender. This tradition is exemplified by Thermopylae, several incidents in Op. Market-Garden, the Alamo, etc (as a Texan I had to mention the Alamo).

However, these may be the exceptions that prove the rule rather than counter-examples. In most of these incidents, the sacrifice was seen to have a purpose for the broader war effort or society. Thermopylae and the Alamo for example were each a tactically hopeless stand designed to buy time for strategic victory.

In short, it's the old spaghetti western cliche - "You go on, I'll hold them off."


quote:

ORIGINAL: vettim89


quote:

ORIGINAL: Capt. Harlock


quote:

ORIGINAL: princep01

The truly brave man simply walks away from the ignorant fool. Well done, brave Captain.


Perhaps -- but it's not the classic Japanese attitude, which prefers death to defeat. Let's hope this doesn't get back to the secret police . . .


The Japanese vs Western view on so many issues led to WWII and so many misunderstandings. One Japanese officer denying the jurisdiction of the War Crimes Tribunal said that if the Japanese had won the war LeMay and others would be on trial for crimes against teh Japanese citizenry. We as Westerners rail against the Rape of Nanking yet turn a blind eye to the hundreds of thousands of Japanese civilians burned to death by LeMay's fire bombing campaign.

The concept of defeat and surrender could not be more polar opposites when considering the Western view vs. Japanese. The Allies saw no shame in surrendering when faced with a hopeless situation. Our view is that the mindless sacrifice of men's lives with no hope of success would be dereliction of duty on part of the commanders. The Japanese view would be that it would be shameful for a commander to even ask his men to dishonor themselves by surrendering. The poor treatment of PoW's by the Japanese was rooted in the belief that this men had shamed themselves and their familes with such a dishonarble act as surrender that they did not deserve to be treated well.

So having many Japanese officers and enlisted men believe that death is preferabel to defeat is very in keeping with their mindset. A person could make the point that true courage is admitting you are defeated as opposed to mindless sacrifice for no reason. Read Seas of Thinder recently where the premise that Kurita's withdraw at Leyte Gulf was a carefully orchestrated ruse to save his men and ships from a pointless sacrifice.





fuelli -> RE: Small Ship, Big War (10/29/2008 10:28:01 AM)

Maybe the basic difference is that in Japanese culture the life of a human beeing is devoted to a higher purpose while in the 20th century western culture the life of a human being IS the higher pupose.




tocaff -> RE: Small Ship, Big War (10/29/2008 11:40:18 AM)

Well put, or in other words the Western culture placed a higher value on life than did the Eastern.




thegreatwent -> RE: Small Ship, Big War (10/29/2008 3:43:54 PM)

quote:

Well put, or in other words the Western culture placed a higher value on life than did the Eastern.


Only after the Age of Enlightenment. Previous to that life was Feudal[:D]




tocaff -> RE: Small Ship, Big War (10/29/2008 4:16:33 PM)

Oh yeah, the human race is enlightened.  We're getting better & better at killing eachother off all of the time.




kaleun -> RE: Small Ship, Big War (10/29/2008 6:34:00 PM)

quote:

Oh yeah, the human race is enlightened. We're getting better & better at killing eachother off all of the time


That's not really a contradiction. We can obliterate a whole city with a nuclear device but at the same time we are much more intolerant of civilian casualties than back in the 40s. No industrialized nation would condone carpet bombing a la Dresden or Hamburg.




Cuttlefish -> RE: Small Ship, Big War (10/29/2008 7:39:29 PM)

September 11, 1944

Location: Osaka/Kobe
Course: None
Attached to: Disbanded in port
Mission: None
System Damage: 0
Float Damage: 0
Fires: 0
Fuel: 475

Orders: Undergo refit at Kobe

---

While Hibiki and her crew wait for Hiyo to be ready to sail let’s turn our attention briefly to the jungle somewhere near Mandalay:

---

Frank Barnwell rotates slowly in the air and contemplates the jungle floor, which he figures is about twenty feet below him. He then looks up at his parachute shrouds. These lead up to the thick canopy of vegetation overhead, almost unbroken except for the neat Barnwell-sized hole he punched in it coming down. As he watches the shrouds twist slowly together. His rotation slows, stops, and then he gradually begins to spin in the opposite direction.

“Bloody hell,” he says.

Anti-aircraft fire hit the plane as they were passing south over their target, Japanese positions some fifteen miles northwest of the city. Richards, the pilot, tried to turn the plane around but they lost altitude fast. Barnwell was too busy to take much note of their position when the order came to bail out but his best guess is that he is behind enemy lines. He saw at least two other parachutes but does not know whether anybody else made it down safely.

For that matter, he reflects, he hasn’t made it down safely yet. There is still twenty feet to go and as he spins slowly in the air it looks like a long twenty feet. Barnwell sighs.

“Bloody hell,” he says again.





Mike Solli -> RE: Small Ship, Big War (10/29/2008 7:53:48 PM)

Frank Barnwell?  Care to enlighten this old fart whose memory isn't what it used to be? [:D]




String -> RE: Small Ship, Big War (10/29/2008 8:21:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Frank Barnwell?  Care to enlighten this old fart whose memory isn't what it used to be? [:D]


The british blen pilot from the early episodes




Mike Solli -> RE: Small Ship, Big War (10/29/2008 8:24:33 PM)

Ahh, thanks.




Cuttlefish -> RE: Small Ship, Big War (10/29/2008 9:14:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Frank Barnwell?  Care to enlighten this old fart whose memory isn't what it used to be? [:D]


Frank Barnwell was a radio operator/gunner whose Blenheim was shot down by Hibiki's task force in the early days of the war. He was rescued and held captive aboard Hibiki but escaped when the ship was hit off Borneo a few days later. Excerpts of his escape from the DEI (as recounted in his post-war book "Twelve Islands to Freedom") and subsequent activities have made occasional appearances in the AAR since then.

A while back an alert reader (Grotius, I think) correctly recognized that the character was named after the real-life Frank Barnwell, British aviation designer and inventor of the Blenheim.

Check out this entry for a little bit more on Barnwell. It's still one of my favorites.






Mike Solli -> RE: Small Ship, Big War (10/29/2008 9:23:28 PM)

You're right, Cuttlefish.  That is outstanding.  One of these days, I'm going to have to start this over from the beginning.  122 pages though.....




Mynok -> RE: Small Ship, Big War (10/29/2008 9:26:01 PM)


I'll bet it's way shorter than military manual.




Cuttlefish -> RE: Small Ship, Big War (10/29/2008 9:31:13 PM)

Believe me, I understand. I wrote this stuff and keep notes on who is who and I still forget things. I am not certain but I think each year of the war contains about the same amount of writing as an average novel.




Shark7 -> RE: Small Ship, Big War (10/30/2008 1:11:07 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cuttlefish

Believe me, I understand. I wrote this stuff and keep notes on who is who and I still forget things. I am not certain but I think each year of the war contains about the same amount of writing as an average novel.


You have to keep notes. Even with the short character list I have on 'Thunder in the Pacific' it is very difficult to remember who is who and what they do. I think you are right on the novel part. Only 2 months into my game and I'm already considering starting a new word file due to the length of the one I have.




Skipjack -> RE: Small Ship, Big War (10/30/2008 4:59:22 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cuttlefish

Frank Barnwell rotates slowly in the air and contemplates the jungle floor, which he figures is about twenty feet below him. He then looks up at his parachute shrouds. These lead up to the thick canopy of vegetation overhead, almost unbroken except for the neat Barnwell-sized hole he punched in it coming down. As he watches the shrouds twist slowly together. His rotation slows, stops, and then he gradually begins to spin in the opposite direction.

“Bloody hell,” he says.

Anti-aircraft fire hit the plane as they were passing south over their target, Japanese positions some fifteen miles northwest of the city. Richards, the pilot, tried to turn the plane around but they lost altitude fast. Barnwell was too busy to take much note of their position when the order came to bail out but his best guess is that he is behind enemy lines. He saw at least two other parachutes but does not know whether anybody else made it down safely.

For that matter, he reflects, he hasn’t made it down safely yet. There is still twenty feet to go and as he spins slowly in the air it looks like a long twenty feet. Barnwell sighs.

“Bloody hell,” he says again.



Thanks, Cuttlefish [:)] Although he isn't much heard from, Frank Barnwell is one character I like to keep track of.




Fallschirmjager -> RE: Small Ship, Big War (10/30/2008 5:25:45 AM)

I am on page 20 of this wonderful thread and just wanted to share how awesome it is. Easily one of the best AARs I have ever read.

But one thing I have thought the past two hours while reading this.
How ironic would it be if the Hibiki was torpedoed and sunk by the SS Cuttlefish [:D]




Page: <<   < prev  120 121 [122] 123 124   next >   >>

Valid CSS!




Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI
0.8447266