What does "Klotzen, nicht Kleckern" really mean? (Full Version)

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KG Erwin -> What does "Klotzen, nicht Kleckern" really mean? (8/11/2000 1:26:00 PM)

For anyone who has read "Panzer Leader" (by Heinz Guderian)or "Guderian" (by Kenneth Macksey), this phrase has been mentioned and intrepreted in varying ways as one of "Schnelle Heinz"'s catchphrases. For anyone who speaks German, what does this term REALLY mean? I have an idea that it has a more earthy translation than is commonly mentioned in the published accounts, since I know that Guderian was a pretty down-to-earth guy when it came to describing his ideas. I think my translation of "Use the fist, not the fingers" is close, but I think he was really saying something else. I'll tell you what I think that really means after I hear from someone who speaks German.Glenn.



Guderian -> (8/11/2000 4:43:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by KG Erwin: For anyone who has read "Panzer Leader" (by Heinz Guderian)or "Guderian" (by Kenneth Macksey), this phrase has been mentioned and intrepreted in varying ways as one of "Schnelle Heinz"'s catchphrases. For anyone who speaks German, what does this term REALLY mean? I have an idea that it has a more earthy translation than is commonly mentioned in the published accounts, since I know that Guderian was a pretty down-to-earth guy when it came to describing his ideas. I think my translation of "Use the fist, not the fingers" is close, but I think he was really saying something else. I'll tell you what I think that really means after I hear from someone who speaks German.Glenn.
Polish translation is "don't knock - strike instead"



edgar -> (8/11/2000 5:24:00 PM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by KG Erwin: [B]For anyone who has read "Panzer Leader" (by Heinz Guderian)or "Guderian" (by Kenneth Macksey), this phrase has been mentioned and intrepreted in varying ways as one of "Schnelle Heinz"'s catchphrases. (snip) "Boot'em, donīt spatter'em" or "Kick, don't spit" look at http://www.achtungpanzer.com/gen2.htm for more Guderian catchphrases. Edgar



Grumble -> (8/11/2000 10:12:00 PM)

Well, it's an idiom so a translation into English doesn't really apply. But the closest interpretation is probably , "Kick(ing) not Spit(ting)".



Wild Bill -> (8/11/2000 10:43:00 PM)

Sounds like the meaning is "Kill 'em, don't just pat 'em on the head!" [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] Good tactic! WB ------------------ In Arduis Fidelis Wild Bill Wilder Coordinator, Scenario Design Matrix Games



Arralen -> (8/12/2000 12:08:00 AM)

I would try a literal translation, but my english isn't good enough for that [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/frown.gif[/img] However, it's mostly "Use every means available, and use them generously, don't hesitate." .. so maybe "Fist, not fingers" the correct translation, I'm not shure about this.. "Klotz" = "block" "klotzig" = "big n' clumsy" "klotzen" = ...do something the big, impressive (and maybe a bit clumsy) way [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img] "kleckern" = "splash,spill (in small amounts)" greetings, Arralen [This message has been edited by Arralen (edited August 11, 2000).]



cjpaul -> (8/12/2000 3:40:00 AM)

To everyone: I'm an American living in Germany and I can speak German, but not perfectly. I asked a German friend, and the closest English idiom is "If you do it, do it right."



cb -> (8/15/2000 4:52:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by cjpaul: To everyone: I'm an American living in Germany and I can speak German, but not perfectly. I asked a German friend, and the closest English idiom is "If you do it, do it right."
The message Guderian was trying to convey was that you should always use the maximum available force and firepower when trying to accomplish something on the field of battle. I think the phrase "Klotzen, nicht kleckern" can best be described by how you knock on a door. "Kleckern" is the one-finger, rather timid, knock, while "Klotzen" is hammering the door with your fist, letting no one be in doubt that you are here and you mean business. The phrase is likely to have originated with Guderian (and others) attempts in the 1930ies to have armour concentrated in divisions rather than spread out in battalions distributed to infantry divisions. Claus B



KG Erwin -> (8/15/2000 7:54:00 PM)

Thanks, guys, for your input. The actual words really don't matter, it's how the idea behind the phrase comes across. I suspected there was no literal German-English translation, so my signature will use the various translations I've seen here, if only for the sake of variety. (Plus a few more I'll just make up from time to time). I thought there might be a more vulgar sexual connotation behind it (and I suppose there COULD be), but I'll leave that intrepretation out of this. How about the Arnold Schwarzeneggar version:"Smash zem with your fist, girlie-boy, don't tickle them with your little pinky!" Glenn.



Steffenchess -> RE: (9/6/2020 6:32:16 AM)

quote:

"Kleckern" is the one-finger, rather timid, knock, while "Klotzen" is hammering the door with your fist, letting no one be in doubt that you are here and you mean business.


Sorry I'm German by birth, lived there for 35years followed by 15 in the U.S.

Before writing this I even checked if in some local dialect what you wrote could be correct but... well maybe in Pennsylvania dutch as your interpretation comes rather close to:
klickern (not kleckern) is what you do with your finger on a table maybe
klotzen can probably have several meanings but comes definitly from KLOTZ=BLOCK

but really the explanation of several others above is correct
and kleckern is definitly not something you do with your finger on a door:

Again a "Klotz" is a "block" and if I may add
"kleckern" is what you do if you spills some fluid or soup (check the dictionary)

So as written above
"if you do it, do it right" is probably an almost perfect translation
I'd go with
don't just spill a bit here and there, put the big stuff out

And sorry to the thread opener - no sexual vulgar connotation here :-)



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