Big LCD monitor, the good and bad (Full Version)

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gunny -> Big LCD monitor, the good and bad (2/18/2007 4:16:59 PM)

My big screen flat panel LCD woes for the computer. Did some research. Noticed 22 inch LCD monitors have dropped in price and alot of sales were on. I used a viewsonic 19 inch CRT which is really only 17.5 inch viewable. My daughter could use it as a hand me down so why not I said as she needs a monitor (how convenient [;)] )

Did research. 5ms response time should eliminate ghosting. 3000/1 contrast ratio should give full black to full white colours in dark 3D Doom style games. (Its rare to find a high value as this but LG has it). A DVI connector on my ATI card for full digital performance. And 22 inches IS a full 22 diag, or 18w X 12h

The verdict was not so cut dry I’m afraid. The Good:

-2D wargames are easy on the eye at any resolution. Wow.
-So much empty desk space now. The monitor sits way back
-3D games such as MTW2 and Panzer Command seem to offer a bigger view of the playing field. More aware of the peripheral battlefield. They actually look really good.
-Web browsing, so much easier on the eyes. Sit back and read away.
-Lower heat, power consumption.

The Bad:
-Things look different. Especially textures in some 3D shooters and flight sims.
-Gotta find that sweet spot by adjusting monitor gamma and contrast on certain games

Bottom line: I wasn’t sure if I liked the LCD and was considering returning it. So I simultaneously hooked up my CRT using ATI hydra software which allows for dual monitors to compare. It was then I realized I couldn’t go back to the CRT. The 22inch LCD had more going for it IMHO.



Twotribes -> RE: Big LCD monitor, the good and bad (2/18/2007 4:49:30 PM)

Considering the negatives you listed are mostly just things your used to I would say you are likely to adjust to it with the older games and wont even notice it with new games ( except the Gamma thing)

Havent bought a big monitor yet mine is fine till it pops. Then I will decide if i want large "new" tech or not.

Speaking of negatives due to perception and what your used to... I just got running a 2.4 Amd dual processor with a brand new gforce vid card ( 512) My online games now play at high resolution settings with LARGE settings as opposed to the old low settings and medium screen settings. Talk about getting used to it.... LOL.



Trower44 -> RE: Big LCD monitor, the good and bad (2/18/2007 5:18:07 PM)

I've been looking into this lately and discovered that switching to a widescreen monitor meant playing around with the settings in some game files to get them to run properly - adjusting the fov value in the .ini file for example. I'm quite happy doing this but I'm not sure it's for everyone.



Brady -> RE: Big LCD monitor, the good and bad (2/18/2007 5:55:22 PM)

I have been considiering getting a new monator for a while now, my understanding is that at present CRT's are still beset for gamming, like flight sims, while bulkey they still offer the best rendering, the other thing is that for almost as much as a top of the line LCD monator, I could spend a little more and get a projector. I used a projector for almost two years (untill the bulb burnt out), and it the hardest habit I ever kicked, hard to leav a 4 x 8 Foot screan for a 20 incher....


                                                                                                       Brady



FlyingElvis -> RE: Big LCD monitor, the good and bad (2/19/2007 4:01:46 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Brady

I have been considiering getting a new monator for a while now, my understanding is that at present CRT's are still beset for gamming, like flight sims, while bulkey they still offer the best rendering, the other thing is that for almost as much as a top of the line LCD monator, I could spend a little more and get a projector. I used a projector for almost two years (untill the bulb burnt out), and it the hardest habit I ever kicked, hard to leav a 4 x 8 Foot screan for a 20 incher....


Brady

I was one of those that held on to my CRT until I had to build a friends PC. He had a Dell 20 inch LCD widescreen and when I put it side by side with my PC with a CRT, the difference in sharpness was amazing. I was embarrassed that I still had a CRT, the difference was that bad.



bartholimew -> RE: Big LCD monitor, the good and bad (2/19/2007 11:57:27 PM)

LCD prices are in line to crt msut of happened overnight. Had a look at best buy. i do recall games long ago requiring you to adjust sliders to see a special test pattern on install. Think it was alone in the dark some corny game. Could expect that thing to come back. I probably wont go LCD unless i get a new system or my monitor craps out.



sapper_astro -> RE: Big LCD monitor, the good and bad (2/20/2007 4:15:46 PM)

CRT all the way.

LCD monitors do not last the distance, and begin to deteriorate rather rapidly. If you can still get a good quality, decent sized CRT, your laughing.

My 19 inch CRT has lasted me 8 years now, and its in perfect condition. Next to that I know many people who have stuffed LCD's after only a year, including a guy I know who sells the things! He has one on his office computer where he sells them, but his gaming room has a nice, big, fat CRT.

Take this advice as you will.



Fred98 -> RE: Big LCD monitor, the good and bad (2/21/2007 12:05:56 AM)

I studied LCDs for 6 months.

My main concerns:  that widescreen LCDs would produce a stretched squashed picture.

That LCDs would have washed out colours.

I was assurred by loads of people on various forums that this is not the case. Last nitht iI got a new Dell widescren LCD

All graphics are squashed and stretched.

All colours are washed out.

DO NOT GET AN LCD.   Stick to the biggest most expensive CRT monitor you can find.

-












SemperAugustus -> RE: Big LCD monitor, the good and bad (2/21/2007 7:24:13 AM)

CRTs take a lot of space though...



NefariousKoel -> RE: Big LCD monitor, the good and bad (2/21/2007 9:12:38 AM)

The biggest problem with LCDs (and I've tried a couple different ones) is:

1) Native Resolution. 

If you have a game that doesn't run at your native resolution, it will look like crap.  For reference, adjust your desktop settings to something lower than your LCD native resolution.  That's the only way you can go since native rez is the upper limit.  One thing CRTs has an advantage on is flexibility.  LCDs under rez'd looks like things are out of focus.  The only solution to this is attempting to get your vid card to run the lower resolutions in it's own window and who wants to play stuff in a tiny window in the center of your screen - when it even works properly.

2) If you have Widescreen.

It only multiplies the resolution issues from #1.  Not only will lower resolutions than your native one make things fuzzy and indiscriminate, it'll stretch the sides of those games that don't support widescreen.  Even worse.  You get color ghosting like when you splay a deck of cards across a table in addition to the out of focus look.

I'm gonna stick with a 4:3 LCD at the moment and perhaps get a larger desk, as if it's not large enough as-is, to support both an LCD and CRT.  It's the only solution I know and likely has it's own problems which I've not experienced.  Yet.




Trower44 -> RE: Big LCD monitor, the good and bad (2/21/2007 8:06:08 PM)

An LCD at its native resolution should look fine. My two desktop PCs run 19" monitors (one an LG and the other a Samsung) at 1280x1024 and most of the games look superb, the exceptions being some older games that don't support that res (few and far between in my collection) and a couple of wargames ('Korsun Pocket' and 'Uncommon Valour'). There's nothing that would make me want to go back to using a CRT. Widescreen is a different matter though. My laptop runs 1280x800 and the only wargame I can get to run in that res is 'Highway to the Reich'!! TOAW III runs windowed and Battlefront just looks terrible[:@] My shooters, the Red Alert games and the 'Total War' games all look great although some took a little fiddling with the game files to get there.[:)]

Basically, if you wargame then widescreen monitors are a waste of money. However, computers are increasingly becoming multi-media hubs and as such widescreen is going to become the norm whether you like it or not. Wargame designers should take note.[:)]



Fred98 -> RE: Big LCD monitor, the good and bad (2/22/2007 1:27:41 AM)


The native resolution of my widescreen monitor is 1280x800

I have been investigating and asking for 6 months.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Trower44
and most of the games look superb, the exceptions being some older games.('Korsun Pocket' and 'Uncommon Valour').
My laptop runs 1280x800 and the only wargame I can get to run in that res is 'Highway to the Reich'!!
and Battlefront just looks terrible
Basically, if you wargame then widescreen monitors are a waste of money.
widescreen is going to become the norm whether you like it or not. Wargame designers should take note.



So it has finally been confirmed:
KP
BiN
BiI
Battlefront

All look bad under a widescreen LCD

I am kicking myself because I knew before hand that they would look squashed. I knew the colours would be washed out.

I should have followed my instinct.



ravinhood -> RE: Big LCD monitor, the good and bad (2/22/2007 5:48:08 AM)

Can you burn an LCD monitor like a CRT if you leave it on the same screen for long periods of time? Often wondered that about LCD monitors.



scott64 -> RE: Big LCD monitor, the good and bad (2/22/2007 7:08:32 AM)

I enjoy my Gateway FPB2185W [:)] 1680X1050 resolution [:'(]



Marc von Martial -> RE: Big LCD monitor, the good and bad (2/22/2007 12:44:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Joe 98


The native resolution of my widescreen monitor is 1280x800

I have been investigating and asking for 6 months.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Trower44
and most of the games look superb, the exceptions being some older games.('Korsun Pocket' and 'Uncommon Valour').
My laptop runs 1280x800 and the only wargame I can get to run in that res is 'Highway to the Reich'!!
and Battlefront just looks terrible
Basically, if you wargame then widescreen monitors are a waste of money.
widescreen is going to become the norm whether you like it or not. Wargame designers should take note.



So it has finally been confirmed:
KP
BiN
BiI
Battlefront

All look bad under a widescreen LCD

I am kicking myself because I knew before hand that they would look squashed. I knew the colours would be washed out.

I should have followed my instinct.


Check your monitors manual (or graphic card driver) to see how to set it to recognize aspect ratios and maintain them. All you people complaining about stretched graphics should first consult your manuals before you bitch about widescreen LCDs. You will get a letterbox left and right but the application will not look skew.

LCDs are not as "easy" as CRTs, you need to read the manual. It is the same with regular 4:3 cathode ray tube TVs vs. modern widescreen LCD TVs. If you do not read the manual and and use its features then your viewing experience will stink.

Washed out colors? Calibrate it (like you also need to with CRTs), check it it has different color modes (many LCDs have different color default setting for "Text/Office", "Multimedia" and "Video" etc. Or check if it is not broken or so.



Marc von Martial -> RE: Big LCD monitor, the good and bad (2/22/2007 12:47:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

Can you burn an LCD monitor like a CRT if you leave it on the same screen for long periods of time? Often wondered that about LCD monitors.


This is more a problem with Plasma panels. Also the "burned" CRT thing is really a problem of the past. Many "modern" CRTs do not suffer of these problems.



Trower44 -> RE: Big LCD monitor, the good and bad (2/22/2007 4:14:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc Schwanebeck
Check your monitors manual (or graphic card driver) to see how to set it to recognize aspect ratios and maintain them. All you people complaining about stretched graphics should first consult your manuals before you bitch about widescreen LCDs. You will get a letterbox left and right but the application will not look skew.



Don't get me wrong, I like widescreen LCD displays. However, they are becoming the norm and what I don't understand is why more wargame developers don't take the route taken by Panther and make their games so that they can be optimised for widescreen! Luddites.[8|]



Fred98 -> RE: Big LCD monitor, the good and bad (2/22/2007 11:45:33 PM)

Of course I have read the Dell manual. The manual has such fascinating info such as:


Brightness: The brightness and contrast can be adjusted
Pixelation: Here you adjust the pixilation
Colour: Here you adjust red blue and green


It is not possible to change the Aspect using the options menu of my widescreen LCD monitor.

From a computer forum I have this advice.


quote:



If the games your playing are not appearing as you would want in widescreen then keep the in-game res in a 4:3 ratio (square as you put it) and then go into your graphics control panel in Windows.

If your using the new nVidia control panel then you need to look in 'Display' > 'Change flat panel scaling', then set it to 'Use NVIDIA scaling with fixed-aspect ratio'.

This means that you'll have black bars down the sides of your non-widescreen games but at least it won't be stretched or squashed.

For games like Warcraft3 this is a must, otherwise the short fat characters are wider than they are tall!




I will experiment with this over the weekend

-




gunny -> RE: Big LCD monitor, the good and bad (2/23/2007 7:17:28 AM)

The LG does have a couple different modes, movie and text. Also screen calibration, adobe has a cal program to set the brightness, contrast, and gamma. As marc said there is more to know for an LCD. I haven't experienced any weird resolutions or game squashing, perhaps my games are newer.

Edit: also the LG manger disk came with the monitor has all calibration matching screens to flip through



Trigger Happy -> RE: Big LCD monitor, the good and bad (2/23/2007 7:53:15 AM)

One also has to choose the company wisely. ie: Samsung good; Dell bad.



Marc von Martial -> RE: Big LCD monitor, the good and bad (2/23/2007 1:16:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Trower44

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc Schwanebeck
Check your monitors manual (or graphic card driver) to see how to set it to recognize aspect ratios and maintain them. All you people complaining about stretched graphics should first consult your manuals before you bitch about widescreen LCDs. You will get a letterbox left and right but the application will not look skew.



Don't get me wrong, I like widescreen LCD displays. However, they are becoming the norm and what I don't understand is why more wargame developers don't take the route taken by Panther and make their games so that they can be optimised for widescreen! Luddites.[8|]




Oh, don't get me wrong too. I'm not saying that developers should not adapt to this. As should TV stations and finally start to broadcast 16:9 and HD only [;)]

I'm in fact a big believer in flexible GUI design.



Marc von Martial -> RE: Big LCD monitor, the good and bad (2/23/2007 1:18:30 PM)

A good website I can recommend (and have pretty often here already) is:

http://www.prad.de/en/index.html

They feature good reviews and always point out in their factsheets if the interpolation is good and if the monitor features certain settings for aspect ratios.



Marc von Martial -> RE: Big LCD monitor, the good and bad (2/23/2007 1:21:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Joe 98

Of course I have read the Dell manual. The manual has such fascinating info such as:


Brightness: The brightness and contrast can be adjusted
Pixelation: Here you adjust the pixilation
Colour: Here you adjust red blue and green


It is not possible to change the Aspect using the options menu of my widescreen LCD monitor.

From a computer forum I have this advice.


quote:



If the games your playing are not appearing as you would want in widescreen then keep the in-game res in a 4:3 ratio (square as you put it) and then go into your graphics control panel in Windows.

If your using the new nVidia control panel then you need to look in 'Display' > 'Change flat panel scaling', then set it to 'Use NVIDIA scaling with fixed-aspect ratio'.

This means that you'll have black bars down the sides of your non-widescreen games but at least it won't be stretched or squashed.

For games like Warcraft3 this is a must, otherwise the short fat characters are wider than they are tall!




I will experiment with this over the weekend




Which one did you buy? If it does not support aspect ration the you probably saved at the wrong end. Aspect ratio support is actually pretty much the norm these days.

But as pointed out in the other forum post, yes, you can also do this via the graphic card driver. Those "black bars" are called letterbox.



Trower44 -> RE: Big LCD monitor, the good and bad (2/24/2007 4:39:20 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc Schwanebeck


Oh, don't get me wrong too. I'm not saying that developers should not adapt to this. As should TV stations and finally start to broadcast 16:9 and HD only [;)]

I'm in fact a big believer in flexible GUI design.


Good.[:)]

Let's face it, wargames are currently produced to run in normal aspect and whilst you can make a wide screen monitor render the game properly it's a waste of space (and money!).



Trower44 -> RE: Big LCD monitor, the good and bad (2/24/2007 4:43:39 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: gunny

The LG does have a couple different modes, movie and text. Also screen calibration, adobe has a cal program to set the brightness, contrast, and gamma. As marc said there is more to know for an LCD. I haven't experienced any weird resolutions or game squashing, perhaps my games are newer.



Surprisingly there are many current games that don't run in widescreen straight out of the box, if they will run at all! I've found the following site to be an absolute goldmine of information on how to change the game files to make them work in 16:9 or 16:10 aspect ratio.

http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page



tc237 -> RE: Big LCD monitor, the good and bad (2/24/2007 6:00:00 AM)

Hi,

I have a question about widescreen monitors.
How are they for real work? For example, MS Word, Excel, Powerpoint, web browsing?
I have two 19" LCD's, I love'em both. They have a viewable area height/width of 15"(38cm) x 12"(30cm).
When looking at a Word/Excel document at 100% magnification (8.5x11 sheet of paper), the entire doc will fit on the screen, so you know exactly what you are printing.

I see all these 19" widescreens and the screen looks like it is only 6" tall. How do you get any work done? You must wear out the mouse scroll wheel.

Asking because I'm building a new PC for a family member, and want to be able to explain both types of monitors.

Thanks for any info.



gunny -> RE: Big LCD monitor, the good and bad (2/24/2007 8:20:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tc237
Hi,
I have a question about widescreen monitors.
How are they for real work? For example, MS Word, Excel, Powerpoint, web browsing?
I have two 19" LCD's, I love'em both. They have a viewable area height/width of 15"(38cm) x 12"(30cm).
When looking at a Word/Excel document at 100% magnification (8.5x11 sheet of paper), the entire doc will fit on the screen, so you know exactly what you are printing.
I see all these 19" widescreens and the screen looks like it is only 6" tall. How do you get any work done? You must wear out the mouse scroll wheel.
Asking because I'm building a new PC for a family member, and want to be able to explain both types of monitors.
Thanks for any info.



I don't want to sugar coat things but the news is good in those respects. I have a 22'' LCD. And can set just about any resolution, I have used from 1024 to 1650. My favourite right now is 1280X960 at 72hz with large font. Excell fills the whole screen without looking stretched or squashed. And the standard columns go from A to T and rows 1 to 45 without scrolling. Not sure what it was before. Web browsing depends on the page. Some fill every inch. Actually matrix does. Very nice on the eyes. Photos seem to adjust and dont squash or stretch. Yahoo at certain resolutions will fill the screen at others will leave a 1.5 inch margin on either side. Depends what aspect ratio you choose. And you don't have to use the native resolution, the drivers seem to sort that out. Games that I have tried so far, and fill the entire screen without stretching: Company of heroes, Panzer Command, MTW2, Brigade E5 (runs at 1650), Faces of war. Far Cry looks absolutely friggin gorgeous at any resolution on this, better than CRT, so their is hope.



Fred98 -> RE: Big LCD monitor, the good and bad (2/26/2007 1:29:46 AM)

The first time I saw a LCD monitor was late in 1997. At that time they were not so good.

I did not consider LCD monitors till mid 2003. We got them at the office and I wondered how wargames would look.

I asked at PC forums and I asked at the forums for each game I was the playing. I learnt a lot about LCD monitors.

I got the wonderful Uncommon Valour in mid 2002. The game does not look good on a LCD monitor. And I knew this.

In late 2006, I retired the wonderful Uncommon Valour, and again researched LCD monitors.

I asked the same questions I have asked before, over at PC forums and at the individual games forum. I got the same information and same positive answers as before.

I bought the widescreen LCD monitor and updated my video drivers. I read the manual for the monitor and for the video card. But for wargames the picture was bad because of what they did not tell me on the PC and game forums:

>>> To connect the monitor to the PC, use a DVI cable not a standard VGA cable. This provides a better quality picture.

>>>Your video card software will have its own “control panel” and “turn off flat panel scaling.”


These 2 simple instructions were left out of 3 years asking questions. This was the basis of my frustration.

If you are a wargamer and you are considering getting a LCD monitor, don’t get a widescreen one, instead get a square one.

My 19” CRT, 18” viewable, is of course a diagonal measurement. Playing a wargame the screen is 14.5” x 14.5”

My new 22” widescreen LCD is 22”. When playing a wargame the picture is square 14.5” x 14.5”. I have gained nothing.

However a square 20” LCD makes a square picture about 16” x 16” and is therefore better for wargames.

As for colour, when I plugged in the DVI cable there was an instant improvement. But overall the colours are not as rich as a CRT monitor. The colours are about 95% as rich compared to a CRT monitor.

I already knew about that before hand. But I was told the trade –off is that I could see more real estate on any map. This is good for wargames. But as it turns out I cannot do so and therefore there is no benefit.

And when visiting a forum such as this, the distance from the left side of the screen to the right is huge! I have to move the mouse a massive distance and a few times already I have clicked on the wrong thing.

Ultimately I am not better off with a widescreen LCD.

-





Trower44 -> RE: Big LCD monitor, the good and bad (2/26/2007 1:59:13 AM)

As I type this I'm gazing at a 19" LCD monitor (LG M1917TM for the benefit of geeks[:D]) running at its native resolution of 1280x1024. I'm using the DVI socket to plug in my Nvidia 7900 GTX graphics card and the picture quality is fantastic. My advice to Joe would be to fins someone with a 19" LCD monitor like mine who wants a Widescreen and then swap.[:)]



gunny -> RE: Big LCD monitor, the good and bad (2/26/2007 8:01:25 AM)

Joe you are absolutely right about the DVI connector. I knew about this, opened the box to the monitor and no cable, wtf?. Had to run out and buy one.
As for squaring things off haven't had to do it, I don't think I will ever have to. Likely just the difference in software you are running compared to me. My catalyst drivers which I just installed recommended a new resolution 1440 X 960, and that looks better than the native 1650 so thats what I use. Ofcourse if you are playing wargames that don't provide different resolutions to select then I dunno. I have chosen 1024 X 768 on many games...this is a standard CRT res and havent had letter boxing occur or panoramic black horizontal frames occur. The full 22 inches is filled and all looks OK as I expected.

There must be some specifics here, hardware and software that make this work for some and not for others. 



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