RE: COTA.....wow (Full Version)

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Terminus -> RE: COTA.....wow (2/24/2007 10:30:50 PM)

Wow, that's stupid, even for you, ravinhood...



kilowatts -> RE: COTA.....wow (2/24/2007 10:36:42 PM)

quote:


ORIGINAL: Matti Kuokkanen

Does Total War, Combat Mission and Close Combat belong along those which suck?



I have to admit to not having tried those games. The screenshots for Close Combat look pretty good but I was looking for a something at a higher level so I bought Conquest.

Mike



JudgeDredd -> RE: COTA.....wow (2/24/2007 10:39:33 PM)

Well I hope you enjoy it kilowatts. It's a good system, well implemented with good AI



sterckxe -> RE: COTA.....wow (2/25/2007 10:54:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Matti Kuokkanen

quote:

ORIGINAL: sterckxe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Matti Kuokkanen
quote:

COTA = The 1941 Axis campaign in the Med..something - encompassing Greek, Crete and what-if Malta scenarios
HTTR = Highway to the Reich = the older sister, very much alike - encompassing the 1944 Market-Garden campaign (You know : Arnhem, Bridge too Far, that sort of stuff)

So nobody has modded COTA/HTTR yet to include maps and stuff from elsewhere? Is it even possible?


Of course, COTA/HTTR come with the same map and scenario editor Panther Games are using. In fact all the maps and scenarios for the upcoming Bulge game are being created using the map and scenario editor of COTA.

There are a couple of fine user created mods for HTTR as well as COTA

Anything on Finland front?


Not yet - the one thing that is not freely available to all gamers is the OOB editor (or the "Estab" in Panther parlance) - so while you can make any map/scenario you want, it is limited to the troops/equipment provided in the game. As no game has been set in the East Front (it's planned though) you don't have Russian equipment in the game yet.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Matti Kuokkanen
quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Matti Kuokkanen
Resource gathering? Does CC and COTA/HTTR have that too?


Nope, in COTA and HTTR you're the corps commander, not the kitchen feldwebel scrounging around for potatoes [;)]

I really don't get it what that mean... can troops starve to death or not?



I meant that there's no resource gathering like in a "typical" RTS game, no factories spewing out Panzers and no barracks "producing" soldiers. What COTA does have is a supply system where it keeps track of basic & ammo a unit has and the line(s) of supply of that unit back to the supply dump. A WWII battalion had about 48 hours worth of supply on hand and in COTA you'll notice that getting cut-off for a day or so isn't a disaster, but after 2 days when your units are out of beans & bullets they're all ready to surrender.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx



sterckxe -> RE: COTA.....wow (2/25/2007 11:31:00 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood
<snip>


He man, don't make it too obvious. I know Panther Games hired you to act like the local lunatic so by the power of reverse psychology normal people would start to think "he, there must be something awfully good about this game if the ranters & ravers say it's bs" - but you're overdoing it a bit to have maximum effect.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx



Fred98 -> RE: COTA.....wow (2/25/2007 2:18:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood
......when you have more than one unit to move it's RTS kiddie clickfest. Same for CC series....



You have no idea what you are talking about.




-



Terminus -> RE: COTA.....wow (2/25/2007 2:40:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sterckxe

quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood
<snip>


He man, don't make it too obvious. I know Panther Games hired you to act like the local lunatic so by the power of reverse psychology normal people would start to think "he, there must be something awfully good about this game if the ranters & ravers say it's bs" - but you're overdoing it a bit to have maximum effect.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx



Ooooh, it's all a marketing conspiracy...[:D]



Hertston -> RE: COTA.....wow (2/25/2007 5:04:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL:  ravinhood
You guys can play those kiddie clickfests if yah want to.

We do.  Although no doubt you have already noticed the universal view (yourself excluded, obviously) that they are not not 'kiddie clickfests'.  To anyone who has actually played CC (let alone CotA!) for more than two minutes the idea that they are is patently absurd.

Let me explain why, although God only knows why I'm bothering.  In games that are 'kiddie clickfests' (without making any universal judgment; I actually enjoyed a few, particularly Starcraft) they merit that description because being faster on the mouse and shortcuts than your opponent, assuming both have a reasonable familiarity with the necessary strategy, is the way to win.  In HttR/CotA and CC it is a total irrelevance how quick you can click, assuming you are physically capable of using a mouse or similar input device.  In CC particularly what is relevant, and what provides a large part of the challenge, is that while you do not have to click quickly you do have to think reasonably quickly, and think well.   Rather than go on about there being no 'turns' and such in the real world, I'll stay closer to your way of thinking with an example I have used before but that is well worthy of repeating - chess.  Chess is a (and to many, 'the') turn based game if you look at the mechanics.   But in practice is is played against the clock, and intense thought is continuous by both players throughout.  No, it doesn't matter how quickly you physically move the pieces except on rare occasions (it can happen) but, believe it or not, the actual thought processes in playing competition chess have far more in common with a CC game than they do a leisurely TAOW PBEM.



IronDuke_slith -> RE: COTA.....wow (2/25/2007 8:20:40 PM)


I don't see why both methods can't cut it.

I prefer PBEM and always have because no matter how good, an AI is an AI. There's part of me that would rather trash a poor human than a good AI [;)]. However, I have purchased all three AA games and enjoy the change of style. They can sometimes be fairly quiet, in so much as you set things up and then wait, sometimes with little or minimal involvement, whilst units do their own thing. I don't see them as clickfest at all and wouldn't play them if they were. In COTA, whenever new airborne units drop onto the map, I hit the pause button, work out where I want them to go, give the orders then restart. That might not be on if I played online but then I have generally found the AI in AA games to be good and have never tried head to head as a result.

I would prefer the title if it was easier to mod, since I always end up buying new titles for engines I like and might have a dozen at this rate before I get the one I always wanted [;)], but I think there is nothing like it out there, the gameplay is good, the AI is a challenge, they look quite nice as well these days and I appreciate their attention to detail. I have a few comments re the rules which I'll post in their forum shortly but they would represent enhancements (IMHO - not necessarily anyone else's) rather than attempts to fix anything as I don't think anything is broke.

I prefer TOAW (my all time favourite game), but that hasn't stopped me buying all three AA games and thoroughly enjoying them. I don;t think anyone has to be in any particular camp, there's room for all on my hard drive whilst I have the money and time to play them.

Regards,
IronDuke




JudgeDredd -> RE: COTA.....wow (2/25/2007 10:33:13 PM)

quote:

I don;t think anyone has to be in any particular camp, there's room for all on my hard drive whilst I have the money and time to play them.

Exactly my seintiments also. [&o]



Arjuna -> RE: COTA.....wow (2/26/2007 2:25:23 AM)

Well said IronDuke.



UndercoverNotChickenSalad -> RE: COTA.....wow (2/26/2007 3:38:53 AM)

I bought the game I don't like it all that much.  Maybe it will grow on me. 



Terminus, you are a bitch.  stfu.



Twotribes -> RE: COTA.....wow (2/26/2007 5:23:45 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jvgfanatic


quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

[Appendix B

The far future ... not only will future games be non-hex based and PCT they'll almost certainly be online as well. In that case you will be unable to tell whether you are playing a computer or a human. Even if you have chat turned on. ]

Did you happen to notice in the Star Wars episode where Chewy was playing a computer game with R2D2 that while the actual pieces were animated as in "real like" the game was "TURN BASED" haha Yeah boy the far future is gonna get rid of turn based. NOT! lol

You guys can play those kiddie clickfests if yah want to. I'm not going to waste my time or money on them. I don't like them, never did, never will. Only RTS games I'll ever like are solo single player where there is only one character/unit to have to deal with in real time for THAT is the ONLY thing that is CLOSE to the REALISM of these RTS games to include these PRT or PCT that Arjuna continues to try to convince ME that they are something special when to ME they are NOT! (why keep trying Arjuna?haha)....when you have more than one unit to move it's RTS kiddie clickfest. Same for CC series. If it aint got built in predetermined stoppage or at least a built in let the player input the time stoppage mode then it SUKS and is a kiddie clickfest game (to me)! And that's the truth PFFFFTTP! ;)~

[JudgeDread-HEAD] said this:
The one problem I have with Ravinhood (and, again to be fair, anyone else who slags off a game) is slagging a game off that they do not have...they don't have a right to do it and should not. If you want to blast COTA's system, then at the very least have the courtesy to buy it, try it first hand...then if it sucks, by all means, post so...but don't slag a game off (or indeed a new method) just because it's not the normal way you play! }

Seems I have to tell you hardheads every time someone writes this above crap like Dreadhead. I don't have to own anything to review a game. I get to play nearly every game that is released that I want to. So, I certainly can give opinion on COTA....BTW ignorant Dreadhead I DO OWN HTTR, played it ONCE and poof it's off my hard-drive, what a poc game. (to me) So deal with it... I'm not here to make you happy with games you like I should like, that's pretty obdurate of YOU.

BTW I thought you said you were "never going to post here anymore"....cause you got mad cause one of the threads you were fired up in about "government" (as you've brought up again in THIS thread) got locked. Doesn't seem like you can leave government out or realize everyone else's opinion has just as much weight as yours does. You don't hold any offices or nobel peace prizes that I'm aware of. lol



Name calling, irresistable urge to piss on someone else's parade, high-handed and all consuming opinion without subjectivity. What more could we ask for? Oh the memories of 7th grade...welcome to gamefaqs.com!


I assume you feel the same way about, say, Terminus? His whole schtic is to insult name call and order people around like he owns the joint.



ravinhood -> RE: COTA.....wow (2/26/2007 8:56:57 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

**Wego and IgoUgo wargames just won't be the same for you! **

Nope they sure won't, they'll actually be BETTER for you. ;) Wego/IgoUgo best gaming system and you can play them PBEM unlike COTA or HTTR. :) So, you get more for your money with Wego/IgoUgo cause you have more opportunities to play other real people without having to setup time frames and being able to be somewhere at a specific time.





Lol I really find it amazing that all this hubbud started over this above quote. My opinion about IgoUgo wargames will be better than rts. Then Judgy and others started with the "flaming' not ME. you guys did, you guys acted like the children, not ME. Best remove the beam from your OWN eyes, before attempting to remove a splinter from my own. You all showed your childishness because I have a "different" opinion than you all do about rts, COTA/HTTR/CC....I've said it before and I'll say it again and forever they suk TO ME. That's my choice and I'm not missing out on anything that suks in my opinion, that's a pretty silly statement as well Judge Dread. But, when you "flame me 1st" then yeah I'm gonna retaliate back, none of you are any better men than I am. You hold no rank in my society why should your opinons matter to me? I don't expect mine to matter to the "diehard fanboi's" hell, I've said that before. My posts are to the "uninformed" about games like HTTR/COTA/CC and I have every right to present those opinions to the gaming public as much as you all do with your opinions. But, you really all should take a careful look at your ownselves instead of flaming and insulting another formite just post your opinons of the "games" and how they play. That's what I do "initially" it's the rest of you that turn it into a political flamewar based on your own biased opinions. Since you have no clue as to what I do in life, whom I'm associated with or the like. So, best to keep those personal feelings, flames and political beliefs to yourselves eh? ;) Thanks



sterckxe -> RE: COTA.....wow (2/26/2007 9:23:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus


quote:

ORIGINAL: sterckxe

quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood
<snip>


He man, don't make it too obvious. I know Panther Games hired you to act like the local lunatic so by the power of reverse psychology normal people would start to think "he, there must be something awfully good about this game if the ranters & ravers say it's bs" - but you're overdoing it a bit to have maximum effect.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx



Ooooh, it's all a marketing conspiracy...[:D]


Well, it's either that or believing a guy who claims to have played HTTR and calls it a "RTS clickfest" is serious [;)]

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx



Terminus -> RE: COTA.....wow (2/26/2007 9:28:09 AM)

Ooops, didn't realize we were having a "political flamewar"...[8|]



JudgeDredd -> RE: COTA.....wow (2/26/2007 11:01:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood
Lol I really find it amazing that all this hubbud started over this above quote. My opinion about IgoUgo wargames will be better than rts.

You consistently miss the point of my posts. I don't know if you do it on purpose or not.
1. I don't care what u like and I don't care to waste my time trying to convince you to like something you clearly don't. You've made your point very clear...if it isn't turn based, it's crap.
2. My post wasn't about how it was wrong for you to like turn based and that I thought "they suk" (your words..trying to help you understand my posts). My post was about people saying a game is crap because of it's implementation method when those people haven't bought or tried the game.

You say you bought it, played it once and uninstalled it. Fine. That's your perogative. FYI, I did exactly the same with the RDOA demo. The problem with the demo was no manual and no idea for the uneducated how to play. When I bought RDOA a few months later to "give it another go", I got into it in depth and was blown away with the system. So "played it once and uninstalled it" doesn't cut it in terms of giving people feedback on whether a game is crap, not bad, good or great. You have no right to jump into a post where someone says it's a good system and slag it off on the back of your pathetic (lack of) "experience" of the game. All you are doing is taking your own naive thoughts and spreading it to others. You are actually "trying", successfully or otherwise, to undermine peoples livings (the developers) purely on the basis a game is not turn based. Shame on you.

Why in the hell could you not say "Sure, you like it now, but if my experience with it is anything to go by (which is limited) that feeling won't last". Wouldn't that be more informative and less flaming to the posters and potential purchasers of the product.

quote:


Then Judgy and others started with the "flaming' not ME

I apologise.

quote:


I've said it before and I'll say it again and forever they suk TO ME. That's my choice and I'm not missing out on anything that suks in my opinion, that's a pretty silly statement as well Judge Dread.

I'm not debating whether you think the systems suck or not. You, as others, are entitled your opinion...I'm just really bored of hearing you telling people a game sucks just because of it's implementation method.

quote:


My posts are to the "uninformed" about games like HTTR/COTA/CC and I have every right to present those opinions to the gaming public as much as you all do with your opinions

But your opinions are NOT informing people. They may well be putting people off. That will hurt a company trying to make a living. It will ultimately hurt the wargaming community because there is every chance, year to year, that these companies will go under. And all because you don't like the game because it's not turn based! I doubt very much whether you own half the games you post about.

If you are going to spread your opinion to the uninformed, please just make them...well...coherent and less of a "this game suks because it's not turn based" or "this game rocks because it is turn based". You do no one any favours, including yourself, by posting tripe like that.

All in all, ravinhood (I'm not childish enough to mispell your sig...sorry to disappoint) a complete waste of your time and mine.



Ursa MAior -> RE: COTA.....wow (2/26/2007 11:42:28 AM)

ravin

I have yet to see an IGOUGO game which surpasses WEGO. I like PBEM and turn based games, but IGOUGO is history, since it gives way too much advantage for the acting player.



James Ward -> RE: COTA.....wow (2/26/2007 3:31:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ursa MAior

ravin

I have yet to see an IGOUGO game which surpasses WEGO. I like PBEM and turn based games, but IGOUGO is history, since it gives way too much advantage for the acting player.


That advantage is a good way to simulate initiative. Third Reich and World in Flames put this to good use.



Ursa MAior -> RE: COTA.....wow (2/26/2007 3:52:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: James Ward


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ursa MAior

ravin

I have yet to see an IGOUGO game which surpasses WEGO. I like PBEM and turn based games, but IGOUGO is history, since it gives way too much advantage for the acting player.


That advantage is a good way to simulate initiative. Third Reich and World in Flames put this to good use.


Have you tried WEGO? IT DOES simulate initiative. In IGOUGO only the ciomputer can react and in most cases it does not do what you want.



James Ward -> RE: COTA.....wow (2/26/2007 6:07:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ursa MAior


quote:

ORIGINAL: James Ward


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ursa MAior

ravin

I have yet to see an IGOUGO game which surpasses WEGO. I like PBEM and turn based games, but IGOUGO is history, since it gives way too much advantage for the acting player.


That advantage is a good way to simulate initiative. Third Reich and World in Flames put this to good use.


Have you tried WEGO? IT DOES simulate initiative. In IGOUGO only the ciomputer can react and in most cases it does not do what you want.



Yes I've played some wego type games and I like them in the right situations. Sometimes they do a good job of simulating initiative and sometimes they are just a system of simultaenous movement.
I think that all types have a place. For tactical level a RTS type system without hexes would seem to make sense. It is certainly easier to place an individual or squad in a specific location as opposed to a Corp. OTOH hexes work very well with Corp and Division level units, control of a city and a specific area around it are easily simulated with hexes.



ravinhood -> RE: COTA.....wow (2/27/2007 12:11:35 AM)

Now see those last 4 posts were constructive about peoples opinions WITHOUT character bashing someone else's opinion like Judge Dread just continues to do. He still doesn't get it I'm afraid. He thinks everyone should OWN said game to give a review, well ole buddy it doesn't happen that way in the "reviewing" world, many of these reviewers don't OWN the game, they merely play it and toss it in the played/reviewed pile and later this is given to charity. Best thing for you to learn Judge is everyone doesn't have to live up to "your" expectations of anything. Once you get aware and used to that you'll have a better and less frustrating life. Nobody's opinion about a "game" bothers me in the least, I'll shoot back with my own. But, "character assassination or defamation" is another matter. You can attack my "opinions" all you want, but, whatever you say about me or whether I should/need/have the game matters not. I'm going to give my own informed opinion of matters at hand. Learn to live with them or accept them or just be frustrated or use the little green dot like I have for several forum members like Terminus. ;) It's like this you really don't have to read what I say, just green dot me and that will be that. :)

I also have nothing against Arjuna and if he'd remember I said I was going to get the next one regardless if I liked the way it plays or not. It's part of military history I'm interested in. HTTR and COTA didn't even come close in that aspect as well. I'll buy it, load it, play it one time and uninstall and put in the collectors bin for my great great great grandson who will get all my wealth and collectables. Should make him a millionaire or who knows by then inflation may be so high a billionaire. lol

If yalled noticed my initial post wasn't about COTA/HTTR it was about Igu/Ugo and Wego being the better gaming system to ME. I wasn't attacking anyONE. You all started that mess. ;) You all just like to jump on ole Ravinhood cause he's DIFFERENT from the rest. Definitely reminds me of GRADESCHOOL when kids used to pick on those that were DIFFERENT to them, make fun of, laugh at, ridicule, throw in the mud, trashcans, take their glasses. etc. etc. Uh Huh I can see how many of you were brought up or came up in life. ;)



undercovergeek -> RE: COTA.....wow (2/27/2007 12:39:27 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

I'm going to give my own informed opinion of matters at hand.

I'll buy it, load it, play it one time and uninstall and put in the collectors bin



Just as matter of curiosity how can these two sentences be in the same post?



mjk428 -> RE: COTA.....wow (2/27/2007 1:13:33 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: undercovergeek


quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

I'm going to give my own informed opinion of matters at hand.

I'll buy it, load it, play it one time and uninstall and put in the collectors bin



Just as matter of curiosity how can these two sentences be in the same post?



I don't see a conflict there. The difference between not playing at all and playing one time is significant and likely the single most informative step. It's not like he claimed to be an expert. It's also quite possible to have an informed opinion without playing a game at all; just by doing some research and realizing that it's not something you'd be interested in.

I've put many games away after one sitting. Sometimes they're worthy of a second chance, usually they're not.



undercovergeek -> RE: COTA.....wow (2/27/2007 1:28:18 AM)

thats cool, like i said, 'just curious' [:)]

on another note, just in a friendly 'passing this thread by and stopped for a look' kind of way, if you werent interested in the game, why would you come here and tell everybody - 'hey, do you know what? this game doesnt interest me at all?'



mjk428 -> RE: COTA.....wow (2/27/2007 1:49:13 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: undercovergeek

thats cool, like i said, 'just curious' [:)]

on another note, just in a friendly 'passing this thread by and stopped for a look' kind of way, if you werent interested in the game, why would you come here and tell everybody - 'hey, do you know what? this game doesnt interest me at all?'


If the "you" you are referring to is me, it's because I'm in the market for a new computer game but I want to be sure it's one I'll actually play and enjoy before I buy it. Got plenty on the shelf that I should play first before buying something new but new is always more attractive.

If you mean ravinhood, the simple answer is: because he can. No idea of his true motivations.

I can tell you this. I've been jumped on by game fanboys here & elsewhere simply for actually making public some things I didn't like about someone's sacred cow. Games I paid for and played with great hope that they'd be worthy of my time & effort. At that point, it became personal and I pushed back. For the most part if the people that get ticked off at "trolls" that dare to go against the mob just let them have there say without retaliation, they'd likely move on. Everybody has the right to their opinions even those that are uninformed. They might even get something useful out of the process.



undercovergeek -> RE: COTA.....wow (2/27/2007 2:01:48 AM)

and i agree whole heartedly [:)]

what baffles me is the time people actually take from their day to come here and express a 'not interested' kind of opinion - almost a non-opinion. Like people who call phone polls with 'dont know' as their answer. Is it because its easy to come here and do it - do these people (not you in particular) phone Marmite and tell them they dont like their yeasty pish of a spread, do they mail Ford and say your cars are rubbish, im not buying it because i like Toyotas, and if not, why come here and tell Matrix theyre not buying their game because they dont like it?



dinsdale -> RE: COTA.....wow (2/27/2007 2:06:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ursa MAior
Have you tried WEGO? IT DOES simulate initiative. In IGOUGO only the ciomputer can react and in most cases it does not do what you want.

3R and WiF deliberately incorporate the IGOUGO mechanism to provide players with an advantage. It's not a weakness, but something incorporated into the game.

A WEGO equivalent would require the disablement of one side, or increased speed of another to simulate initiative.

WEGO's great too, but it's also got limitations: the time slot has to be well designed or the I move here, you move there dance which makes a game futile.

Bottom line is that the mechanism of turns isn't as important as the soundness of design.



tc237 -> RE: COTA.....wow (2/27/2007 4:01:43 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: undercovergeek
why come here and tell Matrix theyre not buying their game because they dont like it?


Because Matrix Games has alot of influence now in the PC wargaming market.
They are one of, if not the, largest publisher of traditional wargames. If we want good games, we have to come here and tell Matrix what we think.
As much as they pi$$ me off sometimes, they are still the best at listening to wargamers and keeping the hobby strong.



Trigger Happy -> RE: COTA.....wow (2/27/2007 9:15:48 AM)

I still like games like Steel Panthers and EFII, and think that they still have their place, but I think that they can't be compared with the Airborne Assault engine in terms of accuracy,experience and the fluidity of it all (Well, it does depend on the battle, but you get my point).



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