German Production (Full Version)

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Arthur -> German Production (2/28/2007 3:53:05 AM)

Hi all,

Okay I know there is a very simple answer, but then I am very simply man!

My Axis production rarely has any factory points/spots left to actually build anything. When I go to one of the German pridction centres, there will be little or nothing on the production track but I have 0/10 available,same with all my other centres. Needless to say I can't build any supply and can't do anything.

OKay someone enlighten me, what perfectly obvious thing am I missing?

Much appreciated

Arthur



MrQuiet -> RE: German Production (2/28/2007 4:04:42 AM)

Are you sure you are in the production phase?
The game starts with the movement phase, when you finish that you click the arrow at the top right and move to the production phase, only then can you produce units.



Arthur -> RE: German Production (2/28/2007 4:22:57 AM)

Yep in the right phase, I get to build 1 or 2 things and most of the time none, that's it.....

Please help!



MrQuiet -> RE: German Production (2/28/2007 4:29:29 AM)

Could you post a screenshot of your production screen?
How far into the game are you?
Have your resources been damaged?
Do you have a transport in the Baltic Sea to collect free trade from Sweaden/Finland?

Also make sure you do not have your production set to computer controled. You want it set to human controled. You can check on the Game Options button.



Arthur -> RE: German Production (2/28/2007 4:37:40 AM)

Hey Mister quiet, thanks for your reply. I will take note of the need for a transport in the Baltic, however I have plenty of personnel and resources points unused. This problem occurs from the start of the game for me and persists until I get annoyed 6 or so turns later.

Human production being switched on? I will check again but I am pretty sure it would be, otherwise I wouldn't be able to build the 1 or 2 things I can and surely I would see a stack of things on the production cycle. I will check tonight though, as this would be the simple solution I know there is hehe.

BTW - what's the downside to simply conquering Sweden?



Uncle_Joe -> RE: German Production (2/28/2007 4:47:52 AM)

Are you perhaps having your queue filled with damaged units? Many times they can be placed on your production track and bog down everything else. You have to put units on hold at various times in order to free up points for other items. Things like Heavy Fleets should probably be stopped almost immediately unless you have some specific plan for them. Early in the game your production is quite low. So managing which units to let complete and which to delay becomes important. Try building cheaper units in the early game so as to not waste valuable population points.

As far as Sweden, if they are friendly to you (likely) then all other friendly neutrals will make a check to potentially lose one level of 'friendliness' due to you attacking a 'friend'. Also, conquering Sweden means you have to garrison Sweden. That is likely to take more troops than the benefit you'll get from it. Note that early in the game, Germany is flushed with Resources and thus cant even store what she typically takes in. So, anything extra at that point will simply be lost anyways. Granted once the war starts in full and your multipliers kick in, you'll need ever resource but generally you'll have Sweden's anyway through Free Trade.

Norway is a little more of a question mark IMO. I generally leave it alone, but I have tried various strategies that involve making use of its strategic positions. Again, the major downside here is that you have to garrison it (and fairly heavily). But it does make a nice base with which to interdict convoys of supply to Russia.



MrQuiet -> RE: German Production (2/28/2007 4:49:22 AM)

Well, Sweaden is leaning Axis so other leaning axis neutrals will not take to kindly to you attacking friendly neutrals and they may shift there aliegance.
The other downside is you would have to repair the 3 resources sweden has (cost you 30 supply) when you can get them for free.
And then another consideration is you will have to defend it tieing up you limited forces.

Before you attack Russia I believe Germany has something like a total of 25 or 26 Factory Points (which have to get matched to resource points).
After you attack Russia each factory produces 3pts instead of 2 which kicks you up to somwhere near 40.



Avatar47 -> RE: German Production (2/28/2007 5:00:29 PM)

I can't see any reason whatsoever to conquer Sweden. There are only downsides, no upsides. It's not even strategically useful, unlike other (sometimes) friendly Axis nations like Turkey or Persia. You'll never see any veteran attack it. Usually Norway's not worth the effort either, too much of a garrison needed. However, I might change that opinion because a neutral Norway is easy for the Allies to attack, and from there -> Finland and beyond. When playing WAllies, I do often think about it pulling off such a move, but usually the Axis player leaves other easier (diplomatically) doors open for me....



Uncle_Joe -> RE: German Production (2/28/2007 8:18:46 PM)

quote:

However, I might change that opinion because a neutral Norway is easy for the Allies to attack


Which, incidentally, was a good part of the reason that Germany DID attack Norway. Part of it was the desire to use the fjords from which to sortie raiders and Uboats, but Hitler was genuinely worried that the Brits would invade Norway as part of move to interdict trade with Sweden.

In the end, Hitler was right to fear such a move because the Brits were intending to do just that. The Germans got their first however and so the Brits became 'allies' of Norway rather than 'invaders' of.

In AWD, there is less concern about the Swedish trade early on, but leaving the WAllies in that position is dangerous not only to Finland, but Denmark.



Avatar47 -> RE: German Production (2/28/2007 10:30:03 PM)

Indeed in the Allies hands it does threaten those countries you said UJ. I would even further say that a later game entry into Norway, say in 42-43, is still a good strategic option for the Allies. Norway should be considered a possible theater of war for the Allies perhaps, because holding it, especially with Bomber and Tactical Air units can really threaten Germany's scandinavian assets, as well as hitting the Kriegsmarine in the Baltic. It's a great springboard into Denmark like you said, and if I could add, to W Germany and, if the Baltic is Allied, maybe E Germany too.

It's definitely worth a look. Most Axis players, including myself, don't seem to be invading Norway because of the aforementioned associated garrison, supply costs. If a game comes up where I'm having trouble opening up a real 2nd front as the WAllies in 42-43, I think I could consider the North.....

In regards to Hitler's 'fortress europe' mentality, too much was wasted defending Norway for an attack that never came. In any case, it would have been better for Germany if Britain DID invade Norway before the Germans and DID cut off the iron. Germany would still have beaten France in May-June 40, and Britain, a now seemingly equally aggressor nation doing anything possible to defeat Germany, would not have the moral world support that it enjoyed in real life. Germany, imo, would have easily crushed a lonesome UK in any spring '41 Norwegian campaign, if the Brits hadn't withdrawn by then already. Don't know even if the USA would have lend leased those 50 destroyers if Britain had gone and done a thing like that....



Petiloup -> RE: German Production (3/1/2007 11:09:26 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Avatar47

In regards to Hitler's 'fortress europe' mentality, too much was wasted defending Norway for an attack that never came. In any case, it would have been better for Germany if Britain DID invade Norway before the Germans and DID cut off the iron. Germany would still have beaten France in May-June 40, and Britain, a now seemingly equally aggressor nation doing anything possible to defeat Germany, would not have the moral world support that it enjoyed in real life. Germany, imo, would have easily crushed a lonesome UK in any spring '41 Norwegian campaign, if the Brits hadn't withdrawn by then already. Don't know even if the USA would have lend leased those 50 destroyers if Britain had gone and done a thing like that....


Playing the game I always think that we should had a "house" rule or better do an official patch stating that the Allied can't declare war to a neutral with a "balanced" state or a Allied Leaning/Pro-Allied one. Not even the option to do it or at least if only when the US join Britain. I don't see the US invading a pro-allied country even for the sake of gaining a strategic advantage. Of course I wouldn't do this rule for the Axis or Russia at all.



Avatar47 -> RE: German Production (3/1/2007 4:23:56 PM)

Well, before we get hasty with house rules, I would like to say that I've never seen an Allied player invade a neutral norway, let alone a leaning/pro-allied Norway. The penalties are high, and sting especially early on. 10 supply, plus all Pro/Leaning allied + all others have a chance to become less favourable to you. This decision early can lead to many resources being 'lost', and the overall war effort hurt considerably. A later norweigan campaign, say 42-43, is more practical for the allies, as some of the minor countries will probably be either fully on the allied side or Pro-allied meaning that a 1 shade drop in alliance won't change much.



Petiloup -> RE: German Production (3/2/2007 4:41:27 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Avatar47

A later norweigan campaign, say 42-43, is more practical for the allies, as some of the minor countries will probably be either fully on the allied side or Pro-allied meaning that a 1 shade drop in alliance won't change much.


This is why I'm looking at the house rule. If the War is looking good for the Allies at that time I can't imagine Roosevelt invading a pro-allied country or a neutral one. Churchill maybe (as in Persia) but not Roosevelt. The Congress is still needed to approve a war declaration (if I'm right) and it's not guaranteed they would do it in that particular case.



Arthur -> RE: German Production (3/2/2007 5:29:51 AM)

House rule are up to the individuals so little point in arguing about their merit. I think most house-rules come into play where by mutual consent players try to move their game further towards being a simulation i.e they want historical outcomes and therefore introduce penalties and enforced undertakings to bring these about, even if the game system does not.

It must be remembered that the British were close to declaring war on the russians for their invasion of finnland, they had looked at Norway as a forward base of operations to support the finns and planned accordingly.

It must also be remembered the the norwegian merchant shipping was amoungst the largest in the world. Should the Nazis have gotten hold of signifcant norwegian shipping, sealion may not have looked so fanciful.

Lastly, people often get confused thinking that the iron ore that was shipped from Narvik was Norwegion ore. It wasn't, it was swedish ore and was only shipped via Narvik in the winter when the Baltic ports froze over. It's occupation by the allies would have caused only minor economic damage to the third reich and the norwegians, supported by the germans, may have made terrible partisans in their fight for freedom from aggressive english. Who knows what sweden would have done in that scenario?

I think there should be serious political repercussions to the allies attacking neutrals..the pro-axis fence sitters (spain, turkey etc) may just have been frightened enough to cross the line.

Arthur



Arthur -> RE: German Production (3/2/2007 5:34:35 AM)

BTW - I checked and I have human production on. I understand you only have a certain amount of factory spaces per province and that different units consume different amounts of factory space.....but I sill regularly get some provinces, particularly the axis minor allies, where they have 0/4 available and no units on the production track? Do all units, new purchases and rebuilds, show up on the track and which province do damaged units get allocated to?

Hehe last question, I stopped producing any research in a desperate attempt to buy supply, yet each turn there are more research points to allocate, where are these coming from? (on easy).

Thanks all

Arthur 



MrQuiet -> RE: German Production (3/2/2007 6:25:41 AM)

The only way to get research points is to use up your production points (1 resource point matched with 1 factory point)
If you have been alocateing your research on the research screen before you have done your production then you have been taking production points from your factorys. The numbers in the top left of research screen tell you Top: the number of production points you have reserved for research and Bottom: the total number of production points you have left.

The best way is to do your production first (you can reserve research points at any factory you wish by clicking the beaker icon in production screen)

The Axis minors have very limited factory production and can only produce supply, research and/or militia (except Italy and Spain which can produce several types of units). If the minors have been conqured by you instead of joining on ther own accord they can not even produce milita.



Avatar47 -> RE: German Production (3/2/2007 1:13:47 PM)

quote:

I think there should be serious political repercussions to the allies attacking neutrals..the pro-axis fence sitters (spain, turkey etc) may just have been frightened enough to cross the line.


Actually the mechanism in the game is quite good and what you wrote Arthur is actually what really might happen. Spain, at volatility 5, has a 25% chance to become Pro-Axis (or fully Axis if already Pro) everytime either the Axis capture an adjacent Allied territory, OR if the Allies attack ANY country, not to mention all the other countries' volatility checks.

Turkey is hardly what i'd call a 'fence sitter' in this game, and is almost impossible to bring onto the Axis side. The best you can usually hope for is that it goes Pro-Axis, resulting in it giving you 5 supplies a turn from its 1 factory. As a matter of fact, Spain is really the only important non-standard ally the Germans have, and as was discussed in another thread, it's actually most economical when it stays at Pro-Axis, because then it gives you 10 supply for free/turn, and ALSO its 3 resources. On the other hand, as a full Axis partner, it will provide you with manpower. So many opportunity costs in this game :)



Avatar47 -> RE: German Production (3/2/2007 1:17:39 PM)

Not sure btw what problem you are having, sounds odd. If it's not a resource problem, which I doubt, maybe it's that you're looking at the production charts during the movement phase? The numbers I believe look a little different there.

Rumania should, for example, be looking like 2/2 when it's factories are unused, and then go to 2/0 when they are. BTW, I use Rumania/Italy/Hungary to build militias rather than wasting their manpower. Militia can be a real buttress against a sea-invasion, even if they are ineffective.



Arthur -> RE: German Production (3/6/2007 8:16:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrQuiet

If you have been alocateing your research on the research screen before you have done your production then you have been taking production points from your factorys.


Ahh Mr Quiet, there it is, I was going to the research screen first and using most production slots there. Now I know it seems obvious, thank you!



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