Revolutionary new feature! Coming in Ver 3.0 (Full Version)

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Wild Bill -> Revolutionary new feature! Coming in Ver 3.0 (8/20/2000 1:26:00 AM)

With the finalized beta version you have a new directory in the game called maps. Here all created (or custom) maps for generated battles can be kept. To pick a pre-designed custom map for a generated battle, this is the procedure: 1. Go to battle 2. Click on custom map. 3. Click continue 4. A list of maps will appear. Now it won't appear until you have some maps with a text file for them, just like a scenario. So maps in this directory will have three files just like a scenario. You have a pzmap**.dat (map itself), pzmap**.cmt (title of map) and pzmap**.txt (a descriptive text file telling about the map). What does this mean? It means you can now have human designed maps for any generated battles you want to play. Be sure and try it out when 3.0 becomes avilable. It works well. And to help you get started, we intend to include some 30 generic maps and about 50 historical ones! Now that is a nice supply of maps. No more weird maps from the AI. Now you will have some first quality battlegrounds. This is going to make generated battles a lot more fun on well done maps, even historical maps if you so choose. Quite a revolutionary change. My congratulations to Tom Proudfoot and David Heath for pulling this off! Wild Bill ------------------ In Arduis Fidelis Wild Bill Wilder Coordinator, Scenario Design Matrix Games [This message has been edited by Wild Bill (edited August 19, 2000).]



Skotty -> (8/20/2000 2:35:00 AM)

Can custom maps be used in generated and long campaigns????? Plz........ [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]



crazyivan -> (8/20/2000 4:44:00 AM)

a mighty ROAR of youuuuuuuu good things you goes up here , [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] top effort guys i salute you. just when you think it can't get any better than your already excellent efforts you come up with this.



sami heimola -> (8/20/2000 5:15:00 AM)

YESSS!!! This is something great what I (and many SP-players) have only dreamed of years! Thank you for Matrix's staff making it finally true! Sami
quote:

Originally posted by Wild Bill: With the finalized beta version you have a new directory in the game called maps. Here all created (or custom) maps for generated battles can be kept. To pick a pre-designed custom map for a generated battle, this is the procedure: 1. Go to battle 2. Click on custom map. 3. Click continue 4. A list of maps will appear. Now it won't appear until you have some maps with a text file for them, just like a scenario. So maps in this directory will have three files just like a scenario. You have a pzmap**.dat (map itself), pzmap**.cmt (title of map) and pzmap**.txt (a descriptive text file telling about the map). What does this mean? It means you can now have human designed maps for any generated battles you want to play. Be sure and try it out when 3.0 becomes avilable. It works well. And to help you get started, we intend to include some 30 generic maps and about 50 historical ones! Now that is a nice supply of maps. No more weird maps from the AI. Now you will have some first quality battlegrounds. This is going to make generated battles a lot more fun on well done maps, even historical maps if you so choose. Quite a revolutionary change. My congratulations to Tom Proudfoot and David Heath for pulling this off! Wild Bill
[This message has been edited by sami heimola (edited August 20, 2000).]



nikb -> (8/20/2000 6:41:00 AM)

Yeah...bring it on!!!!



Leibstandarte -> (8/20/2000 8:30:00 AM)

TO sum up all that is coming in version 3 and to state my opinion of Matrix in general...WOW!!!! What more need be said? ------------------ Cavalry Trooper (8th US) and Grandson of a Leibstandarte Tanker.



Pack Rat -> (8/20/2000 3:23:00 PM)

You make me so very happy [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] ------------------ Good hunting, Pack Rat



Antonius -> (8/20/2000 10:32:00 PM)

Sounds terrific !



Pave -> (8/21/2000 3:49:00 AM)

Okay, sounds fun, but... My opinion is that it would have been better to improve the random map generator to use the new terrain types and to generate more realistic maps. It would't be much more interesting to use the old x times used maps in a campaign. At least for me, one of the main reasons for playing a campaign is that every time the map is such that I haven't played on it. The computer generated random maps do look pretty dull, so it would be nice to see them improved. Some other ideas (maybe not in the next version but later?): - In winter there could be ice on water, which could carry lighter vehicles and be broken with artillery fire - A bridge type for the trail(like few logs over a stream) - could carry only men and horses, etc. A neat detail in jungle. - Weight limits for the bridge types (That wooden bridge doesn't look strong enough to carry a Mouse or even a Tiger) Just a small improvements. Generally I don't have anything to complain, which you wouldn't been fixing now. The game is great already. -- Pave



Wild Bill -> (8/21/2000 5:10:00 AM)

Very nice suggestions, Pave. I wish we could get them all. Some are fairly simple, others would require many days of recoding. Hard to say what will and what won't make it from my vantage point. I hope it all does, of course...Wild Bill ------------------ In Arduis Fidelis Wild Bill Wilder Coordinator, Scenario Design Matrix Games



sami heimola -> (8/21/2000 5:44:00 AM)

Very good point, Pave. On the other hand, it could be boring to play with same "old" maps long time (if only known amount of maps are available). But can player choose between "already pre-made maps" and "AI's generated maps"? And can "pre-made maps" be available in Campaign Generator and Battle Generator or only in Battle Generator? BTW, I'm agree about your ideas anyway. Sami
quote:

Originally posted by Pave: Okay, sounds fun, but... My opinion is that it would have been better to improve the random map generator to use the new terrain types and to generate more realistic maps. It would't be much more interesting to use the old x times used maps in a campaign. At least for me, one of the main reasons for playing a campaign is that every time the map is such that I haven't played on it. The computer generated random maps do look pretty dull, so it would be nice to see them improved. Some other ideas (maybe not in the next version but later?): - In winter there could be ice on water, which could carry lighter vehicles and be broken with artillery fire - A bridge type for the trail(like few logs over a stream) - could carry only men and horses, etc. A neat detail in jungle. - Weight limits for the bridge types (That wooden bridge doesn't look strong enough to carry a Mouse or even a Tiger) Just a small improvements. Generally I don't have anything to complain, which you wouldn't been fixing now. The game is great already. -- Pave



Drake666 -> (8/21/2000 5:52:00 AM)

The problem with the random map generator is that it is random. You would have to make the computer a lot smarter then it is to have it produce nice maps. Its the same problem you run into with the AI, to get it to were it would be that good you would need a super computer just to run it. I think they did the best they could by offering players the chance to use custom maps that people made.



Wild Bill -> (8/21/2000 6:09:00 AM)

Very perceptive of you, my friend. Exactly. We chose an alternate for the moment that unfortunately does not give you the scope of maps in generated campaigns, but we did the best we could. I always prefer human maps to computer generated ones anyway...if they are well done, of course. Give me some more like the ones you've been doing and there will be a lot of happy gamers! You guys oughta see Drake's Omaha Beach map. Wow! Wild Bill ------------------ In Arduis Fidelis Wild Bill Wilder Coordinator, Scenario Design Matrix Games



Skotty -> (8/21/2000 6:53:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Skotty: Can custom maps be used in generated and long campaigns????? Plz........ [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]
Not to be a stick in the mud, but can anyone answer this question? Great work fellas Skotty



Antonius -> (8/21/2000 3:25:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by Wild Bill: With the finalized beta version... Wild Bill
Bill, does that line imply that V3.0 is almost ready ?



Fredde -> (8/21/2000 3:35:00 PM)

No later than Sept 23'd is the last thing i've heard.. ;-)



Wild Bill -> (8/21/2000 10:05:00 PM)

Answers: Skotty - no Antonius - yes Wild Bill ------------------ In Arduis Fidelis Wild Bill Wilder Coordinator, Scenario Design Matrix Games



Warhorse -> (8/21/2000 11:29:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by Skotty: Can custom maps be used in generated and long campaigns????? Plz........ [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]
Well yes and no Scotty, no, they are not without some tinkering, but if you are into some filename changing, and editor using, yes, I do it all the time with my campaigns!! You have to save the campaign after you deploy, or just before, change the name of the savexxx.dat, to a scenxxx.dat, and put it in the scen. folder. Open that scenario in the editor, and pick whatever map you want, tinker with the vic. hexes, start lines, then save the scenario. Change the name of the file back to savxxx.dat, and put back in the save folder, open in the game, and , Voila!! Have fun, ------------------ Mike Amos Meine Ehre Heisst Treue



Skotty -> (8/22/2000 3:49:00 AM)

Thanks for the reply WB and mucho thanks to Warhorse for the workaround. [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]



panda124c -> (8/24/2000 7:38:00 PM)

Perhaps a routine in the Campain game to randomly choose one of the pre made maps would work. The more pre made maps the more variations in the maps used in the Campain games.



Gobbler -> (8/24/2000 8:47:00 PM)

Thanks for all the work - we're like kids at christmas. of course all eyes turn to 3.1



johnfmonahan -> (8/24/2000 10:43:00 PM)

Everyone talks about the difficulty in programming the AI. Since I am not a programmer, I agree by default. I would like to suggest some workarounds. I don't know if they are feasable, but as a US ARMY veteran, ammo's cheap ! The first deals with computer resources available to the AI. The gaming population has PCs that vary from the 486 to the Pentium 3. Can we have some choice in giving more resources to the AI ? If I have a P3 900, could I let the random map routine run multiple iterations to get a better map ? Either multiple maps to choose from or a longer map generation time. Could we have a dialog for % woods, hills, urban etc? Second, Could we have different choices for Solitare vs. human games. Arty treatment is one of my pet peeves, and I understand that the current AI cannot handle a significantly different system without a major rewrite. Could we have a button for historical Arty ? I enjoy chasing Tigers around the map with Russian arty, but my opponents often disagree. I very much like and appreciate the game. Good Work !



cb -> (8/27/2000 6:39:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Wild Bill: With the finalized beta version you have a new directory in the game called maps. Here all created (or custom) maps for generated battles can be kept. To pick a pre-designed custom map for a generated battle, this is the procedure: 1. Go to battle 2. Click on custom map. 3. Click continue 4. A list of maps will appear. Now it won't appear until you have some maps with a text file for them, just like a scenario. What does this mean? It means you can now have human designed maps for any generated battles you want to play. Quite a revolutionary change. My congratulations to Tom Proudfoot and David Heath for pulling this off!
Bill, Maybe I am just thick-headed, but how is this different from previous versions of SP? If I recall correctly, it has always been possible to select either "Random" or "Load" map in the battle-generator in SP, the "Load" option showing you the list of custom maps? [COMMERCIAL BREAK] And for those of you who dont think random maps can be exiting, do have a look at SPWW2 v3 - it does a very nice job generating maps. [END OF COMMERCIAL BREAK] [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img] Claus B



Figmo -> (8/27/2000 9:31:00 AM)

Claus, For me it's easier to keep track of everything when they are in different directories - rather than have campaigns, scenarios and maps all in the same directory - they now have there own directories. I guess it's a person preference thing! [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img] Figmo



cb -> (8/27/2000 6:29:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by Figmo: For me it's easier to keep track of everything when they are in different directories - rather than have campaigns, scenarios and maps all in the same directory - they now have there own directories. I guess it's a person preference thing!
But in the older versions of SP, you dont see the campaigns, scens etc. when saving and opening the maps in the game - you see only the maps. It only has a function once you are fiddling around with files from outside the game. Come on Figmo, Wild Bill on behalf of Matrix is announcing a "revolution" of the game, then goes on to describe a feature (the ability to select custom maps in generated battles) that has been in the SP games for what, 5 years? It's like Microsoft announcing that Word 2001 now comes with a spell-checker [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/wink.gif[/img] Don't you think that is pushing the hype just a bit too far? Claus B



Figmo -> (8/27/2000 6:49:00 PM)

Relax Claus - hype is hype - going too far with it - geez - we all have our own level of tolerance for that with every game - your tolerance with SPWaW seems low - and I understand why. [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img] Myself - I still like them in separate directories - if it's not enough of a feature for you - that's your opinion - not mine!! I mean heck - if it's such a simple thing - why didn't somebody do it before now. Figmo



cb -> (8/27/2000 7:41:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by Figmo: Relax Claus - hype is hype - going too far with it - geez - we all have our own level of tolerance for that with every game - your tolerance with SPWaW seems low - and I understand why. [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img]
Why? Just because I've playtested for SPWW2 means that I will only say bad things about SPWAW? Now if you would get up from the trench for a moment and read what I wrote, you will notice that I do not challenge the feature itself. What I do challenge is the Matrix claim that THEY have made a NEW feature while this feature, as described by Wild Bill (the ability to use custom maps in generated battles) has been in the SP series for 5 years and is part of the original programming for that game.
quote:

I mean heck - if it's such a simple thing - why didn't somebody do it before now.
The ability to use custom maps in generated battles has always been there. So somebody did think about it - programmers at SSI in the mid-90ies. I would not have had any problems with this if you had just announced that you had improved the original feature with custom maps in generated battles by adding map texts and a separate directory. That is the actual change and you can hype as much as you like about it. But taking a feature that has always been in the Steel Panthers games and then claim that it is something new that Matrix just invented, that ruffles my feathers as an ardent SP player since 1995. Claus B



Figmo -> (8/27/2000 8:20:00 PM)

To bad about your feathers - probably won't be the last time. [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/wink.gif[/img] But if explaining an existing feature for those that don't know about it - to help them understand the change - if that is bad - then so be it - you win - give the man a cuppy doll!! I didn't know that only experts were on the forum - my mistake. But IMO Sometimes the simplist things can be "revolutionary". And having text files along with the maps is a major change - you can NOT deny that. Figmo



Kharan -> (8/27/2000 8:33:00 PM)

Most likely a communication problem... WB probably read about this among other new features in some Matrix mailing list and wanted to tell the people about it, but didn't remember that not all of it wasn't new [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img].



cb -> (8/27/2000 8:47:00 PM)

Figmo, instead of evading the issue, why dont you adress the fact that Matrix claimed that custom maps in generated battles is something new. Put on your reading glasses and read WBWs post again:
quote:

Originally posted by WBW: What does this mean? It means you can now have human designed maps for any generated battles you want to play.
You can NOW? You always could.
quote:

Originally posted by WBW: This is going to make generated battles a lot more fun on well done maps, even historical maps if you so choose. Quite a revolutionary change.
A revolutionary change to have historical maps in generated battles? I dont think so.
quote:

Originally posted by Figmo: To bad about your feathers - probably won't be the last time. [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/wink.gif[/img] But if explaining an existing feature for those that don't know about it - to help them understand the change - if that is bad - then so be it - you win - give the man a cuppy doll!! I didn't know that only experts were on the forum - my mistake. But IMO Sometimes the simplist things can be "revolutionary". And having text files along with the maps is a major change - you can NOT deny that.
Figgo, you can wiggle and worm all you like, the fact is that WBW screwed up. The fact that you cannot recognize this and keeps attacking me instead of adressing the issue just shows how much it hurts. I know you, WBW and other Matrix people from the old TGN board and I am a bit surprised to see you being so aggressive about this. I am also surprised that you seem so hell-bent on making this an SPWAW vs SPWW2 issue. Apparently you are so insecure about your own product that the slightest hint that other products have the same features makes you go into defensive mode. That is sad. You have a nice product in its own right and your work on SP3 to make it into SPWAW is acknowledged by many on this board, so why can't you simply recognize that the Steel Panthers products have had this feature (custom maps in generated battles) for years and the WBWs post was overenthusiastic in taking the credit for it? Is it really that hard? Sleep on it Figmo, I look in again tomorrow. Claus B



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