RE: You've lost a lot of sales due to the high price. (Full Version)

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Prince of Eckmühl -> RE: You've lost a lot of sales due to the high price. (3/26/2007 12:43:00 AM)

And I count the following in support of the price as is:

Jpinard
Herston
Stillford
Teri
FNG
Rabbitman
Litfuel
Jamiam
Bloodknight
Tactics
Inquisitor
KG Erwin
PoE
Senior Drill
Doggie
Good Guy
Schrecken
Vic Kevlar
VonB
Genozaur
M5000.2006
Zap

That's twenty-two, and doesn't include Shaun Wallace or staff from Matrix.

If I butchered anyones handle, please forgive. Likewise, if I've mis-characterized your support for the game's pricing, PLEASE let me know, and I shall apologize to you both publicly and via PM.

PoE



Monkeys Brain -> RE: You've lost a lot of sales due to the high price. (3/26/2007 12:47:36 AM)


[/quote]

I just wandered in here to see if the new version of CC had been released. I see it has and I see I won't be buying it. And what a completely insulting reply! I own every CC game in the series as well as a lot of the mods. Currently I have one CC game loaded on this system, and two older CCs complete with oodles of mods loaded on an older system. And I won't pay $39.99 or $49.99 for this current game. $20 or $25 maybe, but even $25 seems too high. And that doesn't mean that I have no love for the CC series. 'Demonstrate your love of the CC series by giving us money.' $40-50 is for fully developed games, not for slightly modded re-releases. I don't care about 'new features', not at that price. You release a game that is what, 80-90% of the same code as a eight year old game and has the cost of a game you developed from start to finish?!?! You guys have been smoking crack.

civdiv
[/quote]


BRAVO! [&o]



Prince of Eckmühl -> RE: You've lost a lot of sales due to the high price. (3/26/2007 1:02:08 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: civdiv

me
jpinard
canuck
oleg
Moneky Brain
toast
goodguy
ezz



Well, let's look more closely at the posts of these contributors...

me: ain't buyin

jpinard: graciously changed his stance after Shaun's explanation of the facts

canuck: Ain't buyin'

Oleg: At one point in his posts, Oleg specifically noted that he wasn't complaining about the price.

Toast: He was complaining about VAT not being included in the price.

Good Guy: You need to read this one more carefully; there's no complaint about the price in that post.

ezz: Ain't buyin' (for now)

Monkey Brain: What can I say?

And I'll extend the same commitment to these folks that I made to the game's supporters. If I've misunderstood your posts or mis-characterized your stance on the issue, please speak up, and I'll apologize, PDQ.

PoE (aka ivanmoe)



m5000.2006 -> RE: You've lost a lot of sales due to the high price. (3/26/2007 1:05:02 AM)

oh, c'mon, let's bury the hatchet [sm=character0013.gif], ther's no point...


let's play CC instead...[sm=Tank-fahr09.gif]



civdiv -> RE: You've lost a lot of sales due to the high price. (3/26/2007 1:05:20 AM)

It's bad enough that we disagree, and disagree vehemently. It's worse that you have to make stuff up;

Me; I don't have to quote myself.

jpinard; this is the guy that started this by talking about how many people he had talked with that said the game is too expensive. But now he's on your side, and he still hasn't bought the game.

cannuck; "Well I won't be paying 39.99 for it-or 49.99 for that matter."

oleg; "If you say CC6 will be this and that I have only your word, nothing else. CC: CoI is not even a teaser for CC6, it's quite simply the 100% copy of the 8 year old game (+ mods blah blah) which does not work well as promise for the future (something, that you want funded with players money)."

Monkey Brains; "Before someone tell me that I am nuts for giving 30000 as a number that is realistic number that can be reached with a good product and in this case good priciung policy (not 40 $, that is ridicolously big number of lost sales because many people will pass on this buy)."

Toast; Yeah, his complaint was the £4 VAT. If the game was £5 cheaper he still would have balked at the VAT, right? He was willing to pay £20 but not £24, but if it had been say, £19 w/ VAT he wouldn't have bought it, right? Only he can answer that but to me your argument is ludicrous.

Goodguy; "Question is, though, will it be like a "1.5" game, or like a "2.0" one (all new engine, brandnew AI, new theater, etc.)? Imho, CoI is like 1.3 or 1.4-ish. If there'd be something like 2.0, I'd buy it, definetly."

Cliff Notes Version: Not enough bang for the buck, but again only he can answer.

ezz; "i have the funds, i have played board wargames since the 80's and computer wargames since Harpoon one on 5.25 inch floppys, and I could buy this game.

But i won't .. for all of the above reasons , and the fact that I have only a limited amount of time to play now.

If it was 'buy Cross of Iron + get Bombing the Reich 1/2 price I might be more tempted'"

I didn't really have to do that for you, now did I? And keep in mind that I was VERY lenient when I put people in your camp. Basically anyone that did not criticise the price I regarded as pro-price, and most of them said nothing about buying the game. So you have a pool of definately won't buy, and then a pool evenly divided between will buy/have bought the game, and those that don't have a problem with the price but haven't bought it.

But there's no problem here, right?

And to the one poster that made the claim, I am not asking Matrix to lower the cost of the game, at this point I have lost interest in it.

civdiv



Monkeys Brain -> RE: You've lost a lot of sales due to the high price. (3/26/2007 1:10:37 AM)


quote:


Monkey Brain: What can I say?


Well, take a pencil and write me along those "non buying" [:D]

BTW, if you wanna know I just purchased Theatre of War at BF LOL - I ain't gonna pay 40$ for this pig with a lipstick [:D]

last one is a joke, I am sure that game is good but principles are principles.

The problem here is that wolpfack methods are not good in this situation. Because you can put dissent down here - but you ain't put it down everywhere on Internet. And I am sure that numbers of those putt off with the price is not that small to ignore.
Bad PR not mentioned.



Monkeys Brain -> RE: You've lost a lot of sales due to the high price. (3/26/2007 1:12:45 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: m5000.2006

oh, c'mon, let's bury the hatchet [sm=character0013.gif], ther's no point...


let's play CC instead...[sm=Tank-fahr09.gif]


No problem with me - just wanted to take my point across.
And thread is hillarious and fun [:D]

I just played Medieval II urgh game is masterpiece.



Mario



Prince of Eckmühl -> RE: You've lost a lot of sales due to the high price. (3/26/2007 1:13:41 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: civdiv

It's bad enough that we disagree, and disagree vehemently. It's worse that you have to make stuff up;

Me; I don't have to quote myself.

jpinard; this is the guy that started this by talking about how many people he had talked with that said the game is too expensive. But now he's on your side, and he still hasn't bought the game.

cannuck; "Well I won't be paying 39.99 for it-or 49.99 for that matter."

oleg; "If you say CC6 will be this and that I have only your word, nothing else. CC: CoI is not even a teaser for CC6, it's quite simply the 100% copy of the 8 year old game (+ mods blah blah) which does not work well as promise for the future (something, that you want funded with players money)."

Monkey Brains; "Before someone tell me that I am nuts for giving 30000 as a number that is realistic number that can be reached with a good product and in this case good priciung policy (not 40 $, that is ridicolously big number of lost sales because many people will pass on this buy)."

Toast; Yeah, his complaint was the £4 VAT. If the game was £5 cheaper he still would have balked at the VAT, right? He was willing to pay £20 but not £24, but if it had been say, £19 w/ VAT he wouldn't have bought it, right? Only he can answer that but to me your argument is ludicrous.

Goodguy; "Question is, though, will it be like a "1.5" game, or like a "2.0" one (all new engine, brandnew AI, new theater, etc.)? Imho, CoI is like 1.3 or 1.4-ish. If there'd be something like 2.0, I'd buy it, definetly."

Cliff Notes Version: Not enough bang for the buck, but again only he can answer.

ezz; "i have the funds, i have played board wargames since the 80's and computer wargames since Harpoon one on 5.25 inch floppys, and I could buy this game.

But i won't .. for all of the above reasons , and the fact that I have only a limited amount of time to play now.

If it was 'buy Cross of Iron + get Bombing the Reich 1/2 price I might be more tempted'"

I didn't really have to do that for you, now did I? And keep in mind that I was VERY lenient when I put people in your camp.

civdiv


quote:

Goodguy; "Question is, though, will it be like a "1.5" game, or like a "2.0" one (all new engine, brandnew AI, new theater, etc.)? Imho, CoI is like 1.3 or 1.4-ish. If there'd be something like 2.0, I'd buy it, definetly."


Hey, my offer stands. If I mis-characterized the stance of the folks in either group, I'll glady apologize. I KNOW where you stand on the issue, so I assume that no apology will be necessary.

PoE



civdiv -> RE: You've lost a lot of sales due to the high price. (3/26/2007 1:28:49 AM)

I have made my point numerous times.  The other camp has made their point numerous times.  We are not going to agree.  Let's agree to disagree.  We can agree that we want a strong CC community and future releases of this game.  I don't think anyone who has chimed in on this topic would disagree with the latter.

civdiv



vonB -> RE: You've lost a lot of sales due to the high price. (3/26/2007 2:05:59 AM)

ROFLMAO.. [:D] For some reason this thread has cheeered me up no end.  Nice to know that much ado about nothing is still as well presented as it ever was...



Krec -> RE: You've lost a lot of sales due to the high price. (3/26/2007 8:43:08 AM)

Great thread,

I think i would sell this baby cheap 20-25 [&o]and then charge 40-50 [;)]for the next one. 
Seems logical to me.  Take the money from this one and put it into the next game.[sm=character0267.gif]  sale should easy double or triple if you lower the price ,  not to mention the good pr. [sm=happy0065.gif] right now its kind of been a mixed bag.  [sm=00000018.gif] 





MarkShot -> RE: You've lost a lot of sales due to the high price. (3/26/2007 10:55:54 AM)

By the way, as an exercise the other night, I wanted to see how quickly I could install the original Microsoft CC3 CD with goodies under XP and make it work. My findings:

(1) Installation of orginal CD: 3-4 minutes.
(2) Patch: 1 minute.
(3) Configuration with a CPU slowdown utility to run at 27% full CPU to slow map scrolling: 2 minutes.
(4) Overlay (overwrite) of my fresh CC3 install with the plug-in manager and plug-ins which I had archived a few years ago from my Win98 SE environment (RealRed, CC4 explosions, (no)tanks mod, ...): 3 minutes.

Total time investment: 10 minutes to arrive at an enhanced CC3 up and running under XP. Of course, I know it still lacked the enhancements offer in COI.

For this test, I was lucky that I actually have a copy I picked up in the 90s; since one of the biggest problems for CC3 is that it is not published anymore. However, CC4/CC5 are still easy to be found new. Also, I would think that I could have my CC4 or CC5 games up and running under XP with the best mods in about 10-15 minutes each.

No comments on price here ... however, the point is that this series and the many fine mods done over the years are easily accessible to install and use under Windows XP. The basic CC game is much more XP compatible than quite a few other classic games of the same generation of technology.

There may be many other fine reasons to buy enhanced CC releases from Matrix, but I would not consider XP compatility to be a major consideration for a purchase decision by anyone who is the least bit computer literate.



Oleg Mastruko -> RE: You've lost a lot of sales due to the high price. (3/26/2007 11:12:39 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Krec
Great thread,

I think i would sell this baby cheap 20-25 [&o]and then charge 40-50 [;)]for the next one. 


At this moment I'd dare bet there will simply never be "the next one" if by that you mean truely NEW CC6.

If this debacle is anything to go by it'll take "them" years to re-release complete CC catalog. CC5: Money for Nothing, CC4: Copy/Paste Development, CC2: Learning to Code.... Then, sometime in 2012. (the end of Mayan calendar [:D]) they'll get bored by it all, and declare all work on the series stopped, wondering what MORE would you ungrateful selfish people want of them???!?



Andrew Williams -> RE: You've lost a lot of sales due to the high price. (3/26/2007 1:55:41 PM)

Ok

Cross of Iron is cheap at twice the price... no, no  4 times the price!!!!!

Jesus, Mary and joseph paid $120 here in Australia for stupid Play station 3 games, where you frig around with lots of flashing lights and glittery things, but stay brain dead.


It's friggin simple... If the price was $25.00 a copy it wouldn't get done...so forget it.... let alone cc6!!!!!



Oleg Mastruko -> RE: You've lost a lot of sales due to the high price. (3/26/2007 2:03:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: schrecken

Jesus, Mary and joseph paid $120 here in Australia for stupid Play station 3 games, where you frig around with lots of flashing lights and glittery things, but stay brain dead.


Why did you do that man? [:D]

quote:

It's friggin simple... If the price was $25.00 a copy it wouldn't get done...


The game *WAS* done already 8 years ago.

quote:

so forget it.... let alone cc6!!!!!


I bet you 20$ that we'll never see proper CC6 by this "developer" team anyway. The possibility that they might use the "we didn't sell enough CoIs at 40 bucks per copy to make CC6" argument would make the whole affair truely absurd (but that's exactly what I expect will happen).



Andrew Williams -> RE: You've lost a lot of sales due to the high price. (3/26/2007 2:09:52 PM)

Oleg

I'm very busy working on CC6... so for $20.00 ...your on.

hmmm... that's half a copy of CoI i can purchase.



Oleg Mastruko -> RE: You've lost a lot of sales due to the high price. (3/26/2007 2:15:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: schrecken
I'm very busy working on CC6... so for $20.00 ...your on.

hmmm... that's half a copy of CoI i can purchase.


How many of you "regular dudes" posting in this thread actually work for CSO? [:D] civdiv and Eckmuhl need to revise their Pro and Con lists.

I am afraid we'll never agree on what constitutes a "new" CC. Unless the UI is upgraded to at least 2003-ish standards I will not accept adding of two new units as "CC6".




Andrew Williams -> RE: You've lost a lot of sales due to the high price. (3/26/2007 2:19:34 PM)

New units... revised to three.


EDIT: I am here in a Technical support capacity.

EDIT EDIT: How can you call this work?



Monkeys Brain -> RE: You've lost a lot of sales due to the high price. (3/26/2007 5:05:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: schrecken

Ok

Cross of Iron is cheap at twice the price... no, no 4 times the price!!!!!

Jesus, Mary and joseph paid $120 here in Australia for stupid Play station 3 games, where you frig around with lots of flashing lights and glittery things, but stay brain dead.


It's friggin simple... If the price was $25.00 a copy it wouldn't get done...so forget it.... let alone cc6!!!!!



That's not an argument.

CoI can be best game on the planet in that regard but that doesn't constructively add to this discussion.

As I already said - I can forgive bad greaphics anytime if gameplay is great and I am sure that it is great. But I would just release this game at 29.99$ and don't fall on arguments that they couldn't do it. And you simply ignore arguments that we said here.

But my character is not weak in this regard and simply put it: I have choice to choose games. I applaud Matrix for bringing old games to the market but will not just brake my principles here just like that.

I am here just to fight for gamers right and gamer's right is to have not expensive games whenever possible. I don't mind paying full price for NEW games. Theatre of War is good example and comparision with CoI is innevitable : and it cost me 59$ for a game that was developed 5 years!!!!!!!

So I am sorry but your arguments were beaten.



Hertston -> RE: You've lost a lot of sales due to the high price. (3/26/2007 9:04:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Monkeys Brain

I am here just to fight for gamers right and gamer's right is to have not expensive games whenever possible. I don't mind paying full price for NEW games. Theatre of War is good example and comparision with CoI is innevitable : and it cost me 59$ for a game that was developed 5 years!!!!!!!


Gamers have two 'rights' and two rights only. The first is that the product they buy should actually work provided they have the hardware and software requirements to run it. The second is the real biggie, the right to decide whether to buy a game or not.

You are merely exercising that second right. You will "pay that" for new games, but not for re-releases. That's fine, it's your choice; exactly the same choice that everybody else makes. Price is only one factor. But what you cannot do is generalise and assume that everybody else will make the same choice. From the other side, games publishers have choices too. One of those is to assess the market, and decide what selling price for their game(s) will maximise their profits. That is their choice. They make get it right or they may get it wrong, the same is true for all of us with regard to whatever decisions we may have to make.



Monkeys Brain -> RE: You've lost a lot of sales due to the high price. (3/26/2007 9:46:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hertston

quote:

ORIGINAL: Monkeys Brain

I am here just to fight for gamers right and gamer's right is to have not expensive games whenever possible. I don't mind paying full price for NEW games. Theatre of War is good example and comparision with CoI is innevitable : and it cost me 59$ for a game that was developed 5 years!!!!!!!


Gamers have two 'rights' and two rights only. The first is that the product they buy should actually work provided they have the hardware and software requirements to run it. The second is the real biggie, the right to decide whether to buy a game or not.

You are merely exercising that second right. You will "pay that" for new games, but not for re-releases. That's fine, it's your choice; exactly the same choice that everybody else makes. Price is only one factor. But what you cannot do is generalise and assume that everybody else will make the same choice. From the other side, games publishers have choices too. One of those is to assess the market, and decide what selling price for their game(s) will maximise their profits. That is their choice. They make get it right or they may get it wrong, the same is true for all of us with regard to whatever decisions we may have to make.



I agree it is true. But our right is as well to criticize decisions of some companies. When some companies start to make their prices uphill then it is time to bring them a mirror.
Nobody's perfect btw!

And to point to their competition. I will however not spoil anyone's fun here - just wanted to clarify something as not to stay everything on brute force of fanboys as always.

Until then I will play Theatre of War. When sleeping beaty at Matrix decide to wake up and lower the price of this game I will be happy to buy it. Until then, arrivederczi senorita :)



Oleg Mastruko -> RE: You've lost a lot of sales due to the high price. (3/26/2007 10:59:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Monkeys Brain
Until then, arrivederczi senorita :)


Your Italian (or is it Spanish?) is worse than your English [:-]



Monkeys Brain -> RE: You've lost a lot of sales due to the high price. (3/26/2007 11:02:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Oleg Mastruko


quote:

ORIGINAL: Monkeys Brain
Until then, arrivederczi senorita :)


Your Italian (or is it Spanish?) is worse than your English [:-]


Hehe, I don't know... As I was typing I've noticed that is bad grammatically but I have let it go for good effect (or worse) [:D]



Doggie -> RE: You've lost a lot of sales due to the high price. (3/27/2007 8:34:14 AM)

Matrix should triple the price for weasely foriegners and distribute games free in the United States.  Now that's American Imperialism.



Monkeys Brain -> RE: You've lost a lot of sales due to the high price. (3/27/2007 11:30:25 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Doggie

Matrix should triple the price for weasely foriegners and distribute games free in the United States. Now that's American Imperialism.


Hoho...
I think that Russians bratjuskas and others are coming almost to your place:
1. Theatre of War (Russians)
2. Silent Hunter IV (Dynamix Microsoft? MicroProse? no, Rumanians)
3. Disciples 3 (Russians)
4. Jagged Alliance 3 (Russians)
5. Rig'n'Roll (Russians)
6. Heroes of Might & Magic 5 (Russians)
etc...

poor try at being funny and political right now. This thread is certanly not political. well, Oleg kind of put some stupid remarks about my english or italian and his english is not very good either. I am not putting my posts through spelling checker.


Mario





sterckxe -> RE: You've lost a lot of sales due to the high price. (3/27/2007 11:42:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Monkeys Brain

quote:

ORIGINAL: Doggie

Matrix should triple the price for weasely foriegners and distribute games free in the United States. Now that's American Imperialism.


Hoho...
I think that Russians bratjuskas and others are coming almost to your place:
1. Theatre of War (Russians)
2. Silent Hunter IV (Dynamix Microsoft? MicroProse? no, Rumanians)
3. Disciples 3 (Russians)
4. Jagged Alliance 3 (Russians)
5. Rig'n'Roll (Russians)
6. Heroes of Might & Magic 5 (Russians)
etc...

poor try at being funny and political right now. This thread is certanly not political. well, Oleg kind of put some stupid remarks about my english or italian and his english is not very good either. I am not putting my posts through spelling checker.

Mario


Yeah, and your logic checker has been broken for years too [:D]

Sheesh, Mario, I know that in general you can take a joke, but it seems you're very touchy-feely about anything related to your birthplace. It's the weak spot in your armour, better patch it up because you know how people are when they discover a weakness. [;)]

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx



Monkeys Brain -> RE: You've lost a lot of sales due to the high price. (3/27/2007 11:54:28 AM)

[/quote]

Yeah, and your logic checker has been broken for years too [:D]

Sheesh, Mario, I know that in general you can take a joke, but it seems you're very touchy-feely about anything related to your birthplace. It's the weak spot in your armour, better patch it up because you know how people are when they discover a weakness. [;)]

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

[/quote]


My logic is not broken just you are on otgher crusade and I am on other. LOL
You are on crusade against activation and I am on crusade against prices and other things etc...

First I must exterminate all nationalists and communists here - maybe that's why I am touchy and ashamed at some things. But not particulary - man is strong as much his will is strong :)
And my intellect is strong, that is only important. Man must know why and for what he fights for :) lol

So Eddy comes here... nice puppy btw :)
I followed your discussion there at general discussion hehe...

Did you recognized my pic: it is Joe Strummer with T-Shirt Brigade Rossa in his hands :)))



Mario




Monkeys Brain -> RE: You've lost a lot of sales due to the high price. (3/27/2007 12:17:33 PM)


[/quote]

Yeah, and your logic checker has been broken for years too [:D]

Sheesh, Mario, I know that in general you can take a joke, but it seems you're very touchy-feely about anything related to your birthplace. It's the weak spot in your armour, better patch it up because you know how people are when they discover a weakness. [;)]

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

[/quote]

And urgh, Oleg have his comic moments when he writes articles for Wargamer. Now that is funny and comical.


Mario



sterckxe -> RE: You've lost a lot of sales due to the high price. (3/27/2007 12:46:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Monkeys Brain
My logic is not broken just you are on otgher crusade and I am on other. LOL


Yeah, but I'm *winning* [:D]

quote:

ORIGINAL: Monkeys Brain
So Eddy comes here... nice puppy btw :)


Got another one too, but he plays WITP, which is something I wouldn't want the other forum dwellers to know as it proves I've failed in my attempt to raise him properly [;)]

quote:

ORIGINAL: Monkeys Brain
Did you recognized my pic: it is Joe Strummer with T-Shirt Brigade Rossa in his hands :)))


Sure did - you're a barrel of contradictions [;)]

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx



Monkeys Brain -> RE: You've lost a lot of sales due to the high price. (3/27/2007 12:52:42 PM)



quote:

Yeah, but I'm *winning* [:D]


OK, true, true... temporarily [;)]


quote:

Got another one too, but he plays WITP, which is something I wouldn't want the other forum dwellers to know as it proves I've failed in my attempt to raise him properly [;)]


My father have three dogs. And one of those dogs was afraid of cars... But later on, now when you open the doors of the car he is like lighting inside of the car and it is really funny scene lol



quote:

Sure did - you're a barrel of contradictions [;)]



LOL


Mario



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