RE: day one

RE: day one (Full Version)

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Monter_Trismegistos -> RE: day one (3/10/2007 1:05:54 AM)
Incorrect - and look higher as I added info. I understand it can be confusing, as all other (non-fighter) planes designations, which leave that factory, were designated as PZL xx.

rtrapasso -> RE: day one (3/10/2007 1:11:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Monter_Trismegistos Incorrect - and look higher as I added info. Well, it would explain why the Wiki article did not mention it being used by the Brits... [:D] BTW - not sure if it is actually used in the mod... someone (JeffK) stated the Brits were using them, not the actual modders. i haven't loaded the mod, so i don't know WHAT folks are using except for the screen shots, AARs that Pauk and Speedy are posting.

Dixie -> RE: day one (3/10/2007 1:23:44 AM)
It's not in the mod.

PzB74 -> RE: day one (3/11/2007 1:42:44 AM)
I leave the forum for a couple of days and suddenly Pauk-San turns into Von-Pauk [:D] Looks very interesting, will follow this one with Argus eyes. A bit afraid that the main focus will be on land combat, not the strongest part of the game. When will we see the first fleet encounters - and how has the Italian fleet been modelled to incorporate its historical weaknesses? Are most leaders hard coded to be defensive according to orders from High Command? Italian special attack units were quite efficient in real life, guess these are not included?

pauk -> RE: day one (3/11/2007 10:07:06 AM)
If this mod was created when i started game against Andy, Von Pauk would help his student (Pauk-san studied panzer blitz tactic in the Germany, do you still recall it[:D]) with attack on Suez channel and Axis forces would met each other in Karachi[:D] I think that is a next step in the WiTP evolution - incoporation of these two games into one and therefore simulate historical situation where Brits were under the pressure both from Ita/Germany and Japan[;)][:D] re Italian fleet: no this is not a modeled - in fact all leaders (ground, naval, air) are still Japanese. Changing leaders requires a hard work, and Fremen was overhelmed with mod....still waiting for few enthusiatic guys for this part of the work.... There is no special weapons in the mod and i don't need them - Speedygomory will be thrown out of Africa even without them i can guarantee!![;)]

Widell -> RE: day one (3/11/2007 2:03:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pauk I think that is a next step in the WiTP evolution - incoporation of these two games into one and therefore simulate historical situation where Brits were under the pressure both from Ita/Germany and Japan[;)][:D] If I was with Matrix Games, I would take a deep look into this proposal...

Ron Saueracker -> RE: day one (3/11/2007 2:45:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Widell quote: ORIGINAL: pauk I think that is a next step in the WiTP evolution - incoporation of these two games into one and therefore simulate historical situation where Brits were under the pressure both from Ita/Germany and Japan[;)][:D] If I was with Matrix Games, I would take a deep look into this proposal... I'd be more interested in getting a game design of WITP's scale to work before massively increasing it in size.[X(]

qgaliana -> RE: day one (3/11/2007 4:50:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker quote: ORIGINAL: Widell quote: ORIGINAL: pauk I think that is a next step in the WiTP evolution - incoporation of these two games into one and therefore simulate historical situation where Brits were under the pressure both from Ita/Germany and Japan[;)][:D] If I was with Matrix Games, I would take a deep look into this proposal... I'd be more interested in getting a game design of WITP's scale to work before massively increasing it in size.[X(] To be fair - a lot of it works. If they could eliminate the hard coded bits, I'm sure modders would take care of more new theatres, and probably correct some of the design issues like several have tried with air combat. On the other hand, increasing the scope would make a difficult game even harder - they probably need a better interface to support multiple players per side before doing that. I'm starting to think this game may be better suited to shorter scenarios with more limited scope. Sorry to hijack the AAR (again)- love the concept of this mod, plus I think this will be a really interesting test of the game system.

Speedysteve -> RE: day one (3/11/2007 9:28:21 PM)
Hi all, Turn 3 sent back to Pauk. Malta is closed well and good as Pauk says and will remain so. About 30 planes remain there damaged to be destroyed. The problem with the Malta situation as I see it is Malta was heavily battered during the war and remain in a precarious position for a long period of time. However, I see the WiTP model as an all or nothign scenario as such Malta is now smashed and will remain closed with NO chance of even 5-10 fighters ever taking off their again. IRL at leats some planes took off to contest almost every raid. It was also a rarity that a massive combined stike was launched against Malta ona repeated basis. This is hard to model in WiTP as it stands IMO. North Africa will now be the focus. It will be interesting to see how things go there. One quick question fremen - Italian Industry. How well researched has it been? It seems like there is a LOT of industry in Italy. From my BTR testing and playing I have a decent feel for the Italian industry side of things and for example Taranto seems to have a LOT of stuff that I wonder if it was truly there?

kokubokan25 -> RE: day one (3/11/2007 9:52:48 PM)
quote: One quick question fremen - Italian Industry. How well researched has it been? It seems like there is a LOT of industry in Italy. From my BTR testing and playing I have a decent feel for the Italian industry side of things and for example Taranto seems to have a LOT of stuff that I wonder if it was truly there? Unfortunately i don't have any information about Italian industry during WWII. Only good information over aircraft production. With so limited scope on industry, resources, oil, etc..my only intention was reflect the fuel and supplies shortages. I used a excell spreadsheet to put resources, oil, industries, etc..(at random between italian bases) and garantee minimal supplies during 1942 and first quarter of 43. As i said before, the industry is in a early development in this scenario and must be testing.

Andy Mac -> RE: day one (3/11/2007 10:27:43 PM)
I think Malta needs to be set to lvl 10 AF at start in that way it will never be closed to CAP as stopping CAP is 50 Damage + 5x AF Lvl so runway would need to be actually 100 for it to be closed

Fishbed -> RE: day one (3/11/2007 10:29:40 PM)
Maybe there would be a way to force the Axis player to limit himself with the raids if you could provide the Sicilian bases with only limited supply, knowing how much air ops can burn supply quickly? Then the axis player would have to strike hard once in a while, or strike a little bit everyday or so, knowing anyway that he has to keep reserves in case the Allies try to run a supply convoy to Malta...

bradfordkay -> RE: day one (3/11/2007 11:50:48 PM)
I think that Andy Mac has a point here. Doing so would not prevent the Axis from taking out aircraft on Malta, but would allow the very few fighters get up on CAP. I feel that this would be a decent approximation of the actual situation. The number of allied aircraft on Malta would also still be limited by the supply situation, so it isn't as if making it a level 10 airfield is going to turn it into an invincible aircraft carrier off Sicily.

Monter_Trismegistos -> RE: day one (3/12/2007 3:10:12 AM)
I thin that Andy is wrong here. Axis player should have the possibility to close Malta if he want so, and have enough forces. These forces should be taken from other fronts. But adding a lot of engineers to Malta would secure it's ability to repair airfields.

String -> RE: day one (3/12/2007 1:22:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Monter_Trismegistos I thin that Andy is wrong here. Axis player should have the possibility to close Malta if he want so, and have enough forces. These forces should be taken from other fronts. But adding a lot of engineers to Malta would secure it's ability to repair airfields. It is possible to close even a 10 point airfield. Or rather, almost close. There wont be a lot of planes taking off from a 95 damage airfield, and most of them will be destroyed on the ground anyway.

Rainerle -> RE: day one (3/12/2007 5:53:16 PM)
Hi, I have a question. In order to reduce the number of ready planes would it not be a good idea to reduce the aviation support across the whole map by 50-60 % ? Would that have some side effects like that in the end no planes would fly because of lack of support ?

pauk -> War criminal! (3/13/2007 7:46:42 PM)
Hi Rainerle, that was my suggestion too... the other solution would be 'fixing' all pilots and leader ratings for Italian AF (right now we have Japanese pilots for Axis) but that would require a loooot of work..... edit: all Italian leaders should have no more than 60 inspiration.... AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 01/03/42 That is what was Amiral talking about - Air combat works fine with 'normal' number of aircraft involved in action. My underguned Italian fighers couldn't stop British bombers.... Day Air attack on Benghazi , at 45,128 Japanese aircraft MC-200 x 20 Allied aircraft Blenheim IV x 13 Hudson I x 6 Japanese aircraft losses MC-200: 1 destroyed, 2 damaged SM 79 T: 1 destroyed Allied aircraft losses Blenheim IV: 6 damaged Japanese ground losses: 48 casualties reported Airbase hits 1 Airbase supply hits 1 Runway hits 4 at 8000 feet Ok, the whole world can see now who is a war criminal! Mighty Reich was right when decided to liberate Greeks from the Brits... after they lost Crete they started to bomb a Heraklion AF. No need to mention that this AF isn't military target - only civil and sport planes are using this AF... Day Air attack on Heraklion , at 51,121 Japanese aircraft no flights Allied aircraft Wellington III x 70 Japanese aircraft losses Z-1007 Bis: 2 destroyed - civil planes Do-18D-1: 1 destroyed - training plane SM 79 T: 1 destroyed - sports planes Allied aircraft losses Wellington III: 1 destroyed, 2 damaged Japanese ground losses: 112 casualties reported Guns lost 2 Airbase hits 3 Airbase supply hits 11 Runway hits 18 at 8000 feet Wellies came from Alexandria me thinks. Countermeasures already taken - lets see what Messers can do with their 20 mm guns! Most of my ac are on rest - high altitude bombing with Italians isn't effective! Day Air attack on Malta , at 35,120 Japanese aircraft Z-1007 Bis x 44 BR 20 M x 35 Allied aircraft no flights Japanese aircraft losses Z-1007 Bis: 3 damaged Allied aircraft losses Airbase hits 1 Runway hits 5 at 20000 feet Attack on enemy LCU in North Africa.... Day Air attack on 9th Indian Brigade, at 46,130 Japanese aircraft CR-42 x 10 MC-200 x 9 Ju-87 B (Ger) x 17 No Japanese losses Allied ground losses: 90 casualties reported Guns lost 2 Aircraft Attacking: 10 x CR-42 bombing at 2000 feet 17 x Ju-87 B (Ger) bombing at 2000 feet Nice, i love free training... Ground combat at Barce Allied Bombardment attack Attacking force 10666 troops, 200 guns, 443 vehicles, Assault Value = 405 Defending force 23327 troops, 366 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 340 Japanese ground losses: 4 casualties reported Guns lost 1 Other than that, no big news - for now... I need to get my LCUs into attack position and this will take some time....

pauk -> RE: War criminal! (3/13/2007 8:31:41 PM)
is there a way to turn off hexes in already started game (couldn't find that option) Ariete armoured division: [image]local://upfiles/4569/C38ADDBE2E3042B8B0AB6F1963F17C77.jpg[/image]

Cap Mandrake -> RE: War criminal! (3/13/2007 8:46:36 PM)
Sport planes...heh Is there any way to change "DAK Army" to "DAK"?

Monter_Trismegistos -> RE: War criminal! (3/14/2007 1:34:38 AM)
or to Panzerarmee Africa...

Speedysteve -> RE: War criminal! (3/16/2007 11:58:12 PM)
Turn back to Pauk. Those 'sport' planes have been taking photo's of MY areas and bombing MY bases = they are now sport for my bombers[;)] fremen - have you asked any Matrix guys about ship reinforcement arrival ports? As it stands the Allies in this will NOT receive any AK/TK or 3/4 of AP since they arrive at Truk. I'm sure you can see the complication in this[;)]

kokubokan25 -> RE: War criminal! (3/17/2007 1:01:00 AM)
quote: fremen - have you asked any Matrix guys about ship reinforcement arrival ports? As it stands the Allies in this will NOT receive any AK/TK or 3/4 of AP since they arrive at Truk. I'm sure you can see the complication in this[;)] As i said before, the game engine build a unstopped "stream" of AK/AP to allied side. I cannot "modding" that. However, those ships are not for game (this is because the base destiny is Truk[8\|]). The small number of allied AK/AP get like reinforcements in my mod, go to Gibraltar, England or Alexandria and...... most of them only from october, november 42, to Torch operation. As allied you must survive with the small number of AK you have in january 42.

bradfordkay -> RE: War criminal! (3/17/2007 9:54:01 AM)
Why would any allied ships arrive in Truk?

pauk -> RE: War criminal! (3/17/2007 10:12:33 AM)
Brad, i think that Fremen answered to your question in his last post...

kokubokan25 -> RE: War criminal! (3/17/2007 11:11:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bradfordkay Why would any allied ships arrive in Truk? Good question. I have no idea. Imagine that when i change the original bases in the locations file, something "hard coded" in the game get wrong. Anyway, as those ships not are in my mod and i cannot do anything to "correct" this...well, "live and let play"..[:D]

1EyedJacks -> RE: WAR IN THE MEDITERRANEAN: Speedy vs Pauk (3/17/2007 7:25:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Speedy It's in von Pauk's hands....Speedo Montgomery awaits............ My secret weapons are en route - submarine's oh yeah and other cool stuff[;)] Ugh - Monty in a speedo - not a plesant image... [:D]

pauk -> RE: WAR IN THE MEDITERRANEAN: Speedy vs Pauk (3/19/2007 8:32:14 PM)
Been busy and the dearest of all my opponents is lazy - so i have to do all the work. AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 01/04/42 Englander switched his bombers from Egypt to Rhodes - he obviously won't to face with Me109s and he hopes i will chase him all over the map. Sorry S. i do know which bases are important and i will defend them at any cost. Day Air attack on Rhodes , at 56,118 Japanese aircraft no flights Allied aircraft Wellington III x 65 Baltimore II x 5 Japanese aircraft losses Z-1007 Bis: 1 destroyed Allied aircraft losses Wellington III: 1 damaged Baltimore II: 1 damaged Japanese ground losses: 52 casualties reported Guns lost 1 Airbase hits 9 Airbase supply hits 8 Runway hits 53 at 8000 feet High altitude attack is not a best option...We can do better, guys... Day Air attack on Malta , at 35,120 Japanese aircraft SM 79 x 28 CR-25 x 4 MC-200 x 21 Re-2001 x 15 BR 20 M x 35 Bf-109F-4 R2 Recon x 4 Allied aircraft no flights Japanese aircraft losses SM 79 : 1 damaged CR-25: 1 damaged BR 20 M: 1 destroyed, 5 damaged Allied aircraft losses Hurricane IIc: 1 destroyed Allied ground losses: 8 casualties reported Guns lost 1 Airbase hits 1 Runway hits 13 20000 feet -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Day Air attack on Malta , at 35,120 Japanese aircraft Z-1007 Bis x 6 Allied aircraft no flights Japanese aircraft losses Z-1007 Bis: 5 damaged Allied aircraft losses Blenheim IV: 1 destroyed Allied ground losses: 5 casualties reported Guns lost 1 Airbase hits 1 Runway hits 4 11000 feet -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Day Air attack on Malta , at 35,120 Japanese aircraft Z-1007 Bis x 7 Japanese aircraft losses Z-1007 Bis: 2 damaged Runway hits 1 at 15000 feet Heh, Indian bde, that is why India is almost empty in WiTP....This was first phase of 'blitzkrieg' tactic...tomorrow we shall attack this unit with REAL panzers, not Japanese toys... Day Air attack on 9th Indian Brigade, at 46,130 Japanese aircraft Bf-109F-4 Trop x 14 Ju-87 D (Ger) x 16 Z-1007 Bis x 11 No Japanese losses Allied ground losses: 128 casualties reported Guns lost 3 Aircraft Attacking: 16 x Ju-87 D (Ger) bombing at 2000 feet 11 x Z-1007 Bis bombing at 6000 feet attack on unit 60 miles east of Bengazi... Day Air attack on 4th Indian Division, at 46,128 Japanese aircraft CR-42 x 12 SM 79 x 12 MC-200 x 16 Ju-87 B (Ger) x 19 Japanese aircraft losses CR-42: 1 destroyed, 4 damaged Ju-87 B (Ger): 2 damaged Allied ground losses: 60 casualties reported Guns lost 2 Aircraft Attacking: 9 x CR-42 bombing at 2000 feet 3 x SM 79 bombing at 18000 feet 3 x SM 79 bombing at 18000 feet 17 x Ju-87 B (Ger) bombing at 2000 feet 3 x SM 79 bombing at 18000 feet 2 x CR-42 bombing at 2000 feet 3 x SM 79 bombing at 18000 feet 2 x Ju-87 B (Ger) bombing at 2000 feet Bah, only Japs can deal with PTs[;)]...those pilots are 80 exp... Day Air attack on TF, near Malta at 35,120 Japanese aircraft Bf-109F-4 x 30 No Japanese losses Allied Ships PT MTB-62, Shell hits 4 PT MTB-64, Shell hits 4 PT MTB-63, Shell hits 4 PT MTB-65 PT MTB-66, Shell hits 4 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Day Air attack on Malta , at 35,120 Japanese aircraft P-108B x 10 Japanese aircraft losses P-108B: 6 damaged Runway hits 6 at 15000 feet Go ahead, Englander - my Italian divisions gaining experience from such attacks.... Ground combat at Barce Allied Bombardment attack Attacking force 10769 troops, 201 guns, 448 vehicles, Assault Value = 410 Defending force 23515 troops, 378 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 344 Japanese ground losses: 36 casualties reported Guns lost 4 Allied ground losses: 59 casualties reported Guns lost 4

pauk -> Blitzkrieg...well...damn! (3/19/2007 8:50:04 PM)
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 01/05/42 hm...20 K and Italians can't hit a sh..! Day Air attack on Malta , at 35,120 Japanese aircraft SM 79 x 30 Allied aircraft Hurricane IIc x 6 Japanese aircraft losses SM 79 : 1 destroyed, 4 damaged Allied aircraft losses Hurricane IIc: 1 damaged Runway hits 3 at 20000 feet But there is a good old Tommy ready to assist! Much better... Day Air attack on Malta , at 35,120 Japanese aircraft SM 79 T x 12 Bf-109F-4 Trop x 23 Ju-88A-4 x 60 Hs-126 B-2 x 3 Allied aircraft Hurricane IIc x 2 Japanese aircraft losses SM 79 T: 1 destroyed, 2 damaged Ju-88A-4: 2 destroyed, 10 damaged Allied aircraft losses Hurricane IIc: 7 destroyed Spitfire Vc: 4 destroyed Allied ground losses: 64 casualties reported Guns lost 3 Airbase hits 8 Airbase supply hits 4 Runway hits 69 bombing at 9000 feet -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Day Air attack on Malta , at 35,120 Japanese aircraft CR-42 x 7 Z-1007 Bis x 11 Japanese aircraft losses Z-1007 Bis: 4 damaged at 11000 feet -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Day Air attack on Malta , at 35,120 Japanese aircraft SM 79 x 20 Z-1007 Bis x 68 BR 20 M x 36 Allied aircraft no flights Japanese aircraft losses SM 79 : 1 damaged Z-1007 Bis: 1 destroyed, 8 damaged BR 20 M: 3 damaged Allied aircraft losses Wellington III: 1 destroyed Hurricane IIc: 2 destroyed Spitfire Vc: 1 destroyed Allied ground losses: 22 casualties reported Airbase hits 3 Runway hits 46 at 10000 feet Stuka is proved as very fragile plane.... Day Air attack on 1st Armoured Tank Division, at 45,127 Japanese aircraft CR-42 x 8 SM 79 x 14 MC-200 x 16 Ju-87 B (Ger) x 17 Japanese aircraft losses CR-42: 2 damaged SM 79 : 2 damaged Ju-87 B (Ger): 2 destroyed, 5 damaged Allied ground losses: 49 casualties reported Guns lost 3 Vehicles lost 2 Aircraft Attacking: 8 x CR-42 bombing at 2000 feet 3 x SM 79 bombing at 18000 feet 5 x SM 79 bombing at 18000 feet 13 x Ju-87 B (Ger) bombing at 2000 feet 3 x SM 79 bombing at 18000 feet 3 x SM 79 bombing at 18000 feet 2 x Ju-87 B (Ger) bombing at 2000 feet LR CAP didn't stop us.... Day Air attack on 9th Indian Brigade, at 46,130 Japanese aircraft MC-202 x 21 Bf-109F-4 Trop x 19 Ju-87 D (Ger) x 25 Z-1007 Bis x 9 Allied aircraft Kittyhawk I x 16 Tomahawk IIb x 7 Japanese aircraft losses MC-202: 3 destroyed, 1 damaged Bf-109F-4 Trop: 1 damaged Ju-87 D (Ger): 2 destroyed Z-1007 Bis: 1 damaged Allied aircraft losses Kittyhawk I: 4 destroyed, 7 damaged Tomahawk IIb: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged Allied ground losses: 72 casualties reported Guns lost 1 Aircraft Attacking: 17 x Ju-87 D (Ger) bombing at 2000 feet 12 x MC-202 bombing at 2000 feet 6 x Z-1007 Bis bombing at 6000 feet 3 x Z-1007 Bis bombing at 6000 feet 6 x Ju-87 D (Ger) bombing at 2000 feet 6 x MC-202 bombing at 2000 feet -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ground combat at Barce Allied Bombardment attack Attacking force 4706 troops, 69 guns, 211 vehicles, Assault Value = 412 Defending force 23611 troops, 376 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 347 Japanese ground losses: 30 casualties reported Guns lost 2 15th and 21st Pz divisions attacks! Indians run away into desert but Von Pauk made a big mistake.... i don't have any clue how long it will take untill my panzers are back on road? Fremen, any info on movement in the Norht Africa deserts/trails/roads ? Ground combat at 46,130 Japanese Shock attack Attacking force 9077 troops, 148 guns, 309 vehicles, Assault Value = 530 Defending force 3965 troops, 30 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 106 Japanese max assault: 522 - adjusted assault: 242 Allied max defense: 55 - adjusted defense: 6 Japanese assault odds: 40 to 1 Japanese ground losses: 32 casualties reported Guns lost 2 Allied ground losses: 170 casualties reported Guns lost 7 Defeated Allied Units Retreating! [image]local://upfiles/4569/723FF30E7500415E817B908936B0A016.jpg[/image]

Capt. Harlock -> RE: Blitzkrieg...well...damn! (3/19/2007 10:31:06 PM)
quote: 15th and 21st Pz divisions attacks! Indians run away into desert but Von Pauk made a big mistake.... i don't have any clue how long it will take untill my panzers are back on road? Well, this is what learning curves are all about. I salute you for your sterling work in trying this thing out: since there is no AI option for this mod, nobody can test it against the computer. also, the combat against the Long-Range CAP looked to be about what should be expected -- the German fighters did rather better than the Italian ones.

pauk -> RE: Blitzkrieg...well...damn! (3/19/2007 11:38:09 PM)
Yes Capt. but i should really know from the WiTP that routed unit will retreat to friendly, and not to the enemy base... Still, i can be satisfied with current situation - as ive mentioned at the begining of this game i have three plans - i can disclose that plan C goes very well, but folks you will understand i won't go into details[8D]

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