How similar is the gameplay whether you're player 1 or 2? (Full Version)

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Tonto -> How similar is the gameplay whether you're player 1 or 2? (3/11/2007 8:04:17 AM)

Hard question to word... I was wonding how different the game plays depending on whether you're player 1 or 2.

I played TOAW way back, and my single biggest beef then was that my main tactical concern is whether I was playing as player 1 or 2 and not what my troops were. That kinda killed it for me back then.
eg.
Player 1 always had fresh(full) movement points and thus had the most mobile attacks. But they always attacked units that also had full point and could retreat.
Player 2 would not have full movement points due to Player 1 attacks, but had the advantage of being more likely to cause huge casulties by attacking units that had run out of movement points.

Two totally different games in the same senario, depending on whether you're player 1 or 2. Why I always prefered the IGOUGOWEGO method where combat is resolved simultaneously to avoid those problems (V for Victory series, Combat Mission etc.).

So has some tweaks been done to change or reduce the difference? I see on the specs it's still listed as IGOUGO.

Thanks
T.



Veers -> RE: How similar is the gameplay whether you're player 1 or 2? (3/11/2007 8:12:25 AM)

The problem was that with TOAW I or II? units that had no movement points left would evaporate. This is no longer the case, threfore, a significant problem of the IGOUGO system was eliminated. This is not to say there are not other hurdles to overcome, but this is to say that what I read as being your biggest 'beef' would appear to have been eliminated.



Tonto -> RE: How similar is the gameplay whether you're player 1 or 2? (3/11/2007 8:42:14 AM)

Not sure, I'd guess it was 1.

But yeah, that would be the problem. Player one had the most freedom as he started out with full movement for all his units, but it was almost impossible to destroy a unit due to Player 2 having full movement. Also if he tried he ran a huge risk of losing his units due to Player 2 attacking with untouched 'fresh' units on his moved units. Player 2 could fully move all his units with no worry about a counterattack on a fully moved unit, as next turn all movement was reset back to full. But of course he started his turn with some units not having much or any movement points left. I ended up playing according to the movement system (game mechanics) instead of the units I had (war mechanics). Game mechanics, while always there, should be as invisable as possible.

Thanks for the info.
T.



Graymane -> RE: How similar is the gameplay whether you're player 1 or 2? (3/12/2007 2:52:49 PM)

I believe that they are working on eliminating all the player differences in the upcoming patches.



Menschenfresser -> RE: How similar is the gameplay whether you're player 1 or 2? (3/12/2007 5:35:37 PM)

Seconding Graymane, I believe P1/P2 issues are Jamiam's holy grail/dark tower/mount doom. At least the first of many to come (fingers crossed). Unless I've misinterpreted his various comments on the problem over the years. :)



ralphtricky -> RE: How similar is the gameplay whether you're player 1 or 2? (3/12/2007 7:11:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Menschenfresser

Seconding Graymane, I believe P1/P2 issues are Jamiam's holy grail/dark tower/mount doom. At least the first of many to come (fingers crossed). Unless I've misinterpreted his various comments on the problem over the years. :)

Jamiam can be a bit subtle, can't he...[sm=scared0018.gif]

It's being planned out.



Tonto -> RE: How similar is the gameplay whether you're player 1 or 2? (3/13/2007 1:09:46 AM)

Cool, thanks guys. Does anyone know how it's being planned out or fixed? Is it going to a IGOYGOWEGO style (simultaneous combat resolve)?

Wondering as a tile based war gamer I've seen all the other fixes done and nothing seems to work as well as the WEGO method. You know the old fixes, adding reaction phases, counter attack phases, interrupt phases etc. to stop the player1 player2 IGOYGO quirks like movement bleed fake attacks etc.

Anyway, good news at least.
Cheers,
T.



freeboy -> RE: How similar is the gameplay whether you're player 1 or 2? (3/13/2007 1:27:40 AM)

I think the only p1 p2 issue I can think of that really gets me is that the p2 air can do whatever, then if possible reset and then gets the recalculation bennifit, would much prefer all supplies and air orders get at least adjusted in between the two players..



JAMiAM -> RE: How similar is the gameplay whether you're player 1 or 2? (3/13/2007 8:12:52 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tonto

Cool, thanks guys. Does anyone know how it's being planned out or fixed? Is it going to a IGOYGOWEGO style (simultaneous combat resolve)?

It's staying IGOUGO. I know a lot of people are all hot and wet on WEGO, but TOAW is simply not designed for a WEGO system. If you gotta have WEGO in an operational tile-based game, then petition Matrix to get the ball rolling on Combined Arms: WWII (the game formerly billed as Battlefields!). However, TOAW was built around an entirely different paradigm than WEGO, and trying to make it something that it was never intended to be will end up satisfying nobody.



Tonto -> RE: How similar is the gameplay whether you're player 1 or 2? (3/17/2007 1:44:08 AM)

Thanks Jamiam, I thought it would be that, but had to ask ;). It would be a rewrite, even the AI would have to be redone.

T.



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