I paid for this? (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Battlefront



Message

Doobious -> I paid for this? (3/11/2007 10:24:41 PM)

I enjoy strat games of all kinds, have made numerous purchases from both Matrix and Paradox games, and understand that I am not going to be getting cutting edge graphics... but WTF did I just buy? [&:]

There may be a nice engine under the hood, but this is one ugly car!

First off, 2 choices for screen resolution and no option for windowed mode. This thing makes my eyes bleed on my 26" 1920X1200 widescreen monitor.

Second, not a single mouseover tool tip to be found. When i get a printed manual or information card with a game, I can excuse this.

Third, the icons and map hexes are so pixilated and distorted that I cannot tell what the little symbols in each one are, let alone what the heck they are supposed to mean.

Fourth, that awful screaching sound the game makes when I mouse over items in the startup menu. That garbage sounds just great over my 5.1 surround sound speakers blasting through the house. Every time I start this game the cat runs in terror.

I have made other purchases from Matrix it he past, which I enjoyed and played a great deal. This one has me stuck at the first turn wondering what I am looking at, besides the $50 i threw away.

Sorry, and thanks for your previous releases.

I hope the future is brighter than more unmodofied releases of 15 year old games that do not confront the fact that hardware has changed since their initial release dates.



Erik Rutins -> RE: I paid for this? (3/11/2007 11:06:50 PM)

Doobious,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Doobious
First off, 2 choices for screen resolution and no option for windowed mode. This thing makes my eyes bleed on my 26" 1920X1200 widescreen monitor.


Have you tried setting up your display so that it doesn't stretch the game to fit the screen?

quote:

Second, not a single mouseover tool tip to be found. When i get a printed manual or information card with a game, I can excuse this.


Have you tried the right-click tool tips?

quote:

Third, the icons and map hexes are so pixilated and distorted that I cannot tell what the little symbols in each one are, let alone what the heck they are supposed to mean.


Have you tried the ALT button zoom view?

I assume this is also a function of how it's stretched on your screen - you might want to take a look at the two tutorials JSS posted, which are pinned to the top of this forum and help explain things. If you've never played any of the Decisive Battles games, Battlefront can definitely have a learning curve, but it's well worth it.

quote:

Fourth, that awful screaching sound the game makes when I mouse over items in the startup menu. That garbage sounds just great over my 5.1 surround sound speakers blasting through the house. Every time I start this game the cat runs in terror.


I'm not getting a screeching sound here - is anyone else hearing that?

quote:

I hope the future is brighter than more unmodofied releases of 15 year old games that do not confront the fact that hardware has changed since their initial release dates.


I understand you're unhappy right now, but there's a lot under the hood in Battlefront. I don't think you'll be disappointed once you learn the system. Battlefront is also a new release, not a re-release. So far also, neither of our two re-releases have been unmodified or 15 years old, but I assume that was just a cheap shot out of your frustration.

Regards,

- Erik



Doobious -> RE: I paid for this? (3/12/2007 12:14:13 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Have you tried setting up your display so that it doesn't stretch the game to fit the screen?


Yup... that is not an option. I can rotate my monitor vertically (turn it physically 90 degrees) and the screeen changes to that configuration but there is no option on the monitor to force 4:3 aspect ratio. Also my GF 6600 video card does not force to 4:3 aspect ratio. Hence my initial comment. Hopefully you develop a patch to allow for alot of additional monitor resolutions. I had looked forward to seeing the huge maps spread out across the screen.

quote:

Have you tried the right-click tool tips?


Yes. What that does is bring up a pop-up wth another 20 items in it that all need a tool tip. Very confusing.

quote:

Have you tried the ALT button zoom view?


Yes. That just amplifies the pixels. I have unit icons with little blue dolphin looking things and there are red gremlin looking things in the empty woodland squares. I think you are right about the resolution issue causing this distortion... but this could all have been fixed by making the game be allowed to run in windowed mode.

quote:

I'm not getting a screeching sound here - is anyone else hearing that?


Go to the Battlefront Game Menu, in your Start folder, start it from there, and then move your mouse up and down the menu that shows up. That is one obnoxious sound.

Thanks for your reply,

Doob



Erik Rutins -> RE: I paid for this? (3/12/2007 12:56:26 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Doobious
Yup... that is not an option. I can rotate my monitor vertically (turn it physically 90 degrees) and the screeen changes to that configuration but there is no option on the monitor to force 4:3 aspect ratio. Also my GF 6600 video card does not force to 4:3 aspect ratio. Hence my initial comment. Hopefully you develop a patch to allow for alot of additional monitor resolutions. I had looked forward to seeing the huge maps spread out across the screen.


Hm, my GeForce drivers give me a choice of "Centered Output" (which doesn't stretch) or Fixed Adapter Scaling or Fixed Aspect Ratio Scaling (which doesn't stretch). Either of the non-stretch options work with Battlefront on my widescreen laptop without stretching it. It just gets sort of a letterboxed look.

As SSG explained in another post, there's no possibility of a patch for other resolutions. It's not a trivial thing at all given how the game is designed and would basically require a multi-month re-development of the interface. Since 1280x1024 and 1024x768 are by far the most common resolutions, they covered the bases pretty well.

I agree a windowed mode would be nice, but it's unfortunately not possible for this release.

Hopefully the tutorial posts are helpful for you as far as the meaning of the icons.

quote:

Go to the Battlefront Game Menu, in your Start folder, start it from there, and then move your mouse up and down the menu that shows up. That is one obnoxious sound.


Ah, that's just a radio static type sound - it doesn't sound that bad here and we've used it before on other titles. Honestly this is the first time anyone's complained about it, but perhaps your sound system is making it more profound.




LarryP -> RE: I paid for this? (3/12/2007 12:58:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Doobious

Go to the Battlefront Game Menu, in your Start folder, start it from there, and then move your mouse up and down the menu that shows up. That is one obnoxious sound.


I can't reproduce this. When you say "Go to the Battlefront Game Menu" do you mean the 1rst Main menu that you choose Options and Load Game from? That menu I get good music that starts with a violin playing, maybe that's playing distorted? Sounds good here.



LarryP -> RE: I paid for this? (3/12/2007 1:00:54 AM)

Wait a minute, you're keeping these guys from working on the patch\update for Forge Of Freedom! Take a back seat here! [:D][;)][:-]



JudgeDredd -> RE: I paid for this? (3/12/2007 1:01:07 AM)

Doobious

I'm sticking my nose in here...not trolling...I read most posts in forums of games I am "interested" in and I have to say, that is bang out of order.

There are other ways to put your message across that you are unhappy with something than just being down right damned rude. The developers are hear and clearly listen and reply to people. Whether you like the game or not, someone sweated over that interface. I can understand if it's not to your liking for whatever reason...but to speak about someones work in such a way is very rude and I just hope you don't go through life speaking to people in that way.



LarryP -> RE: I paid for this? (3/12/2007 1:05:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LarryP

quote:

ORIGINAL: Doobious

Go to the Battlefront Game Menu, in your Start folder, start it from there, and then move your mouse up and down the menu that shows up. That is one obnoxious sound.


I can't reproduce this. When you say "Go to the Battlefront Game Menu" do you mean the 1rst Main menu that you choose Options and Load Game from? That menu I get good music that starts with a violin playing, maybe that's playing distorted? Sounds good here.


Nevermind, I feel more stupid now than I did before I posted, which is a lot. You said "Battlefront Game Menu" and that's just what it is called in the Matrix folder, but I don't start my Matrix games from there, I use the Quick Start icons which bypass that menu. It's just the standard radio static sound they all have. I have a pretty intense sound system on my PC and it sounds fine here.



Doobious -> RE: I paid for this? (3/12/2007 4:03:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

Doobious

I'm sticking my nose in here...not trolling...I read most posts in forums of games I am "interested" in and I have to say, that is bang out of order.

There are other ways to put your message across that you are unhappy with something than just being down right damned rude. The developers are hear and clearly listen and reply to people. Whether you like the game or not, someone sweated over that interface. I can understand if it's not to your liking for whatever reason...but to speak about someones work in such a way is very rude and I just hope you don't go through life speaking to people in that way.



I disagree. The small but growing chorus of people unhappy with the interface and graphics of this game need to be headed. There are numerous remakes coming out from Matrix, it seems, and this is a big issue to playability.

Note: I Dl'ed Steel Panthers: World at War to test it, since it is free, and have the same graphical issues there too. I guess I will have to be careful with Matrix releases from now on, and ask if they support differernt screen resolutions.



Erik Rutins -> RE: I paid for this? (3/12/2007 4:10:06 AM)

Doobious,

You should really see if you can find a driver version that allows you to turn off the stretched scaling on your monitor and these games will look fine. All three systems I've checked here with LCDs and GeForce cards support this and I think it would solve your problem. I regret to say that supporting 1920x1200 Widescreen is not something a lot of non-windowed wargames do well nor is it a development priority due to the small market for those resolutions. SPWAW is based on a much older engine and tops out at 800x600 resolution, IIRC. Some newer titles do have windowed mode and/or natively support high resolutions (COTA comes to mind, as does Panzer Command), but not all.

Therefore your best solution is to find driver settings that let you play games designed for lower resolutions without stretching them to look horrible, that way you won't have to limit yourself to only those titles that support 1920x1200 Widescreen natively.

Regards,

- Erik



iaidoka2 -> RE: I paid for this? (3/12/2007 4:17:10 AM)

Runs fine on my 20" widescreen at 1680 x 1050 using Nvidia drivers. Maybe you should check your video drivers and see if that helps.



Fred98 -> RE: I paid for this? (3/12/2007 8:42:26 AM)

The first time I ever saw a LCD monitor I was struck with how clear and sharp it is. Particularly when viewing digital photos.
 
But the next thing that struck me is that where an object is circular on older screens, it has jagged edges on a LCD screen. 
 
This put me off buying one for many years.
 
It note you have 26” widescreen monitor. I suspect that it is so big and so clear and sharp you are seeing flaws in the graphics nobody else can see.
 
The poster never mentioned that the picture is “squashed and stretched” but if it is you need to go to your vide cards’s software and “turn off scaling”.  Then you will see a square picture this wargame was designed to run in.
 
This is the exact opposite to some who have said “the counters are so small I cannot see the detail”
 
-
 
 
 
 



JudgeDredd -> RE: I paid for this? (3/12/2007 10:45:53 AM)

Doobious

I wasn't suggesting you didn't have a valid gripe. There are other people, as yourself, that think the interface isn't up to par with todays level of graphics abilities.

My point was simply that you were very aggressive and rude when making your point. Especially as I said...someone has put alot of work into this interface. True it may not be up your street, but as a fellow developer, it is really quite hurtful to read posts of this nature when it's about your product.

A little diplomacy and careful choice of words could have put the point across more than adequately without making the developer(s) feel like they are no good at their job...and on the flip side, there are plenty more people who actually don't mind the interface and are playing and enjoying the game very much.

Anyway...that's all I was trying to say...I'll bow out now and let Matrix/the developers try and sort out the issues you may be having.



goodwoodrw -> RE: I paid for this? (3/12/2007 1:35:54 PM)

Erik,
Sorry for flogging a dead horse here, but I have mentioned in another thread that the graphics are the worst I have seen in a game of recent times, and the use of the Alt key to zoom in only makes icons look uglier, I'm afraid to say the graphics in this game are not defendable, they are terrible. graphics are not everything in game, but must functional and decipherable. Iam sure there is a great game under the bonnet somewhere, but it's near impossible to get into the game with such a distraction, and certainly is not an easy game to understand for a first timer to this series. Hopefully JSS tutorial might help. if that fails, I may as well kiss my $65 goodbye. I'm sure I will very wary about d/l another game, from Matrix, can't even on sell a d\l version. [:@]



Doobious -> RE: I paid for this? (3/12/2007 10:32:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BASB

Erik,
Sorry for flogging a dead horse here, but I have mentioned in another thread that the graphics are the worst I have seen in a game of recent times, and the use of the Alt key to zoom in only makes icons look uglier, I'm afraid to say the graphics in this game are not defendable, they are terrible. graphics are not everything in game, but must functional and decipherable. I am sure there is a great game under the bonnet somewhere, but it's near impossible to get into the game with such a distraction.


My point exactly. I know that I have the tendancy to be an ass sometimes (refering back to Judge's post) but developing a new game that "is based on a much older engine and tops out at 800x600 resolution" is , well, a bad idea in 2007. Again, I state this so that the developers are aware that they will continue to get this type of a reaction if they use an engine with such obvious limitations for future releases.

I truly do appreciate what Matrix is doing [&o], with releasing the type of games they produce, because no one else is doing it. But one would hope for some degree of compatability with current hardware.



Erik Rutins -> RE: I paid for this? (3/13/2007 3:51:56 AM)

Doobious,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Doobious
My point exactly. I know that I have the tendancy to be an ass sometimes (refering back to Judge's post) but developing a new game that "is based on a much older engine and tops out at 800x600 resolution" is , well, a bad idea in 2007. Again, I state this so that the developers are aware that they will continue to get this type of a reaction if they use an engine with such obvious limitations for future releases.


Sigh. SPWAW, first of all, is FREE. The Generals' Edition costs money but that is for the four mega-campaigns, each of which are well over a couple hundred hours of gameplay and basically a historical tactical player's delight. The first version of SPWAW was release, if I recall correctly, in 2001, six years ago. SP originally went up to 640x480 and was DOS only. We updated the code to Windows and upped the resolution, this was never intended as a new game but to keep an old classic happy with our new Windows computers. Did I mention it's FREE? Gift horse. Mouth. [;)]

Battlefront, a new engine released in 2007, runs in 1024x768 and 1280x1024 which are still BY FAR the most popular resolutions for gamers worldwide. Between those two, you've probably got 80-85% of computers. We are also noting the trend towards higher resolutions, which is still small but growing. We're encouraging developers to keep that trend in mind and a few of the games we've released would support your resolution natively.

However, turning off scaling should be an option for you that would allow the game to effectively look the same as if it were in Windowed mode. Have you research that further yet? At some point, running cutting edge hardware (as you are), you have to accept that being out on that edge means some extra work for you in getting everything working the way you want it to.

quote:

I truly do appreciate what Matrix is doing [&o], with releasing the type of games they produce, because no one else is doing it. But one would hope for some degree of compatability with current hardware.


Well, it depends on what's defined as current. I have yet to personally see a 1920+ LCD screen running on a gamer's desktop around here and I've seen the stats as far as what percentage of gamers run in that resolution, whereas the natively supported 1280x1024 is now on many, many desktops as the default non-widescreen LCD size and that's current and supported. I think what you've really got is effectively tech that will be standard two or three years down the road, but right now is restricted to a much smaller niche. Developers have to determine development decisions based on trade-offs and supporting the most common resolutions is one of those. I agree that all games should have windowed mode and/or full scalability, but in reality saying that is much easier than doing it.

Regards,

- Erik



cdbeck -> RE: I paid for this? (3/13/2007 4:54:43 AM)

My $.02 here,

I'm not sure what people are complaining about when it comes to the graphics. The comments on this board nearly made me not buy the game, but I did despite the complaints, and found the graphics exactly on par with the other DB series entries. This may/may not be one's cup of tea, but I think the counters have the same clarity as KB and BiN. Sure, the counter information is not as clear as TOAW, but that is more due to the addition of the unit "patch" on the upper left that adds unit personality. I would direct those with graphics "issues" to look at the AAR's and JSS's "tutorial" and see if their screen matches these pictures. If not, check drivers and mess with screen resolution to see what works best.

To tell you the truth, LCD monitors are vastly inferior to CRT monitors in the realm of computer gaming. LCD monitors tend to have a more "squared off" look (see above about the distortion from pixel size). LCD monitors also experience quite a bit more "tearing" and screen "artifacts" from high speed movement. This is most noticable in FPS and RTS games, where the screen is refreshing at a faster rate. That being said, many people like the clarity offered by LCD. In a static image, this is fine, but any movement that requires screen refresh will nearly always result in image degradation more serious than a CRT monitor.

I agree that the game needs tooltips more detailed than the right-click information given. JSS's unit "tutorial" aids A LOT with learning the game, and should be printed out to use next to the computer while playing. The game is excellent and provides a lot of depth.

Steel Panthers is not representative of Matrix Games's work. It is a barely changed re-release of an older work. War in the Pacific, Uncommon Valor, the upcoming Carriers at War, and Conquest of the Aegean all have pleasant graphics (some of the best in the wargame business) and even better stuff under the hood.

Compare your screen with the screenshots here online, and make sure that things are the same. If you approve of the other DB styles then BF should be right on par.

Son of Montfort



e_barkmann -> RE: I paid for this? (3/13/2007 7:25:47 AM)

just regarding screen size, I thought this page was most interesting:

http://www.steampowered.com/status/survey.html

scroll down to the 'Primary Display Resolution' entry.

And remember these respondents are usually the hard core 3d gamers with the latest kit...

cheers



bos -> RE: I paid for this? (3/13/2007 12:42:03 PM)

I prefer 1600x1200 myself, but I don't mind 1280x1024. Supporting windowed mode (even if resolutions are limited) would be higher on my list than more resolutions. Windowed allows easier reading of documentation, text files, chatting with friends, etc, without alt-tabbing in/out. But, this is just one opinion.

I, however, don't see that supporting more resolutions would be difficult for a hex-based game. Initial prototype would be to make dynamic blank space in horizontal and vertical toolbars on the main battlemap and surrounding accessory screens. This alone would provide better map visibility, the greatest benefit of higher resolution support.



carnifex -> RE: I paid for this? (3/13/2007 6:37:59 PM)

quote:

Ah, that's just a radio static type sound - it doesn't sound that bad here and we've used it before on other titles. Honestly this is the first time anyone's complained about it, but perhaps your sound system is making it more profound.


it's a horrible sound and definitely too loud ...and the sole reason i never ever ever use that menu to launch anything - first thing i do i make a shortcut to the quicklaunch just so i never have to hear it again



Doobious -> RE: I paid for this? (3/13/2007 8:24:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Battlefront, a new engine released in 2007, runs in 1024x768 and 1280x1024 which are still BY FAR the most popular resolutions for gamers worldwide. Between those two, you've probably got 80-85% of computers. We are also noting the trend towards higher resolutions, which is still small but growing. We're encouraging developers to keep that trend in mind and a few of the games we've released would support your resolution natively.

However, turning off scaling should be an option for you that would allow the game to effectively look the same as if it were in Windowed mode. Have you research that further yet? At some point, running cutting edge hardware (as you are), you have to accept that being out on that edge means some extra work for you in getting everything working the way you want it to.


I have turned scaling off, which corrected the horizontal streatching, but the low resolution of the graphics is the prime issue to the lack of visual clarity.

Note: if the hex size isnt 5/8" tall (map not the alt-zoom) then the image is smaller/larger than on my screen.


"having to sit 12 inches away from my monitor and squint to play Battlefront is not conducive to a good time" -Berkut

I think you can see from the image that it is very difficult to see what is what. Note the blue dolphins and the red gremlins I commented on previously. Note how distorted the "1" is on the unit icon. That is how the majority of the game text looks. It would be possible to play this, but the eye strain is very significant, which is not condusive to spending any time at all staring at the screen, which is primarily what time is spent doing with a game like this.

The bottom line is: I cannot play this game due to the fact that the graphics make my eyes hurt and give me a headache over a short period of time.



[image]local://upfiles/17057/2477E15F23EF4CCDBF45E683CE56717E.jpg[/image]



zanekin -> RE: I paid for this? (3/13/2007 8:25:20 PM)

"it's a horrible sound and definitely too loud ...and the sole reason i never ever ever use that menu to launch anything"

Seriously you're joking...

If not... i hope you have the more silencious keyboard of the world... and dumb neighbour/wife/child/boss (choose what you like and even everyone !)





Doobious -> RE: I paid for this? (3/13/2007 8:36:20 PM)

No. We are not.

Maybe if your running with a single speaker all is good. But I have my system hooked up to 5.1 surround sound, which is tied into my satillite TV, mp3 player, DVD, and CD player and that "static" noise echos through the house. There are no sound control sliders of any type in this game (another oversight IMO), and that sound at start up is not controled by muting the game volume.

What is the refund policy at Matrix?



zanekin -> RE: I paid for this? (3/13/2007 8:38:04 PM)

Poor richly equiped guy !



Doobious -> RE: I paid for this? (3/13/2007 8:42:42 PM)

Touche'! LOL [:D]

But I work hard for my "toys", and I do tend to get cranky when I get time to "play" and they don't work as I expect them to. Hence, my persistant complaining.

I'm pretty sure this horse is dead now though...



iberian -> RE: I paid for this? (3/13/2007 8:52:10 PM)

Horrible screeching sounds? Poor graphics? Pixeletad number ones?

Those sound like real tough problems. I mean, I'd rather be in Arhem with Frost's second battalion, facing a couple of SS armoured divisions, than face these horrible problems. Give me a 7.92mm MG-42 burst in the stomach if you wish, but spare me the pixelation?

Get real guys. This a wargame. A seriously good one. You don't need sound or graphics. The ones we got im the game are good enough, and under my point of view, a step ahead compared to Battles in Italy (and those were good too).

Try to remove yourself from the small cosmetic details, and get to learn the system. I assure you is top notch, probably the best in the market.



cbelva -> RE: I paid for this? (3/13/2007 10:13:53 PM)

As someone who has been experimenting with making a new scenario, I would like to point out that most of what people are complaining about is the fault of the scenario designers and not the program itself. The map and the icons are all created with a 3rd party paint pargram. In many cases, you can cut and paste from someone else's work to create your own icons. You can also take images and shrink them down to size and use them. In doing so, the images tend to take on a blurry look. I was able to sharpen them up in several instances so that their did not appear as blurry. Scenario designers need to take care when creating their icons to make them look as sharp as possible. In Doobious' images which he posted above, I was able to open up the scenario, load the icon and the images in question and sharpen them up with a paint program. I think that the blurriness of the images on the icon was caused when the images were shrinked. I am not suggesting that everyone should do this or even as an option because it is quite time consuming. I am pointing this out so that scenario creators can be aware of this and hopefully correct this.



BlackSunshine -> RE: I paid for this? (3/13/2007 11:33:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: iberian

Horrible screeching sounds? Poor graphics? Pixeletad number ones?

Those sound like real tough problems. I mean, I'd rather be in Arhem with Frost's second battalion, facing a couple of SS armoured divisions, than face these horrible problems. Give me a 7.92mm MG-42 burst in the stomach if you wish, but spare me the pixelation?

Get real guys. This a wargame. A seriously good one. You don't need sound or graphics. The ones we got im the game are good enough, and under my point of view, a step ahead compared to Battles in Italy (and those were good too).

Try to remove yourself from the small cosmetic details, and get to learn the system. I assure you is top notch, probably the best in the market.


*slow dramatic clap*

Well done.

The graphics are fantastic for a wargame. Maybe you should give the game a chance before bashing it. Seriously, how many wargames have beautiful graphics? Not a whole lot. Id rank BF up with any of them.



Wilhammer -> RE: I paid for this? (3/14/2007 1:48:16 AM)

------------

I have avoided LCD screens because they are game unfriendly - so, I chose a 22" NEC.

You bought the wrong tires for your car; don't blame the road for their performance.

-----------

The graphics are outstanding for a hex based wargame; as amtter of fact, I rathe enjoy this style, but then I am and old timey Wargamer, having started in 1979.




Zakhal -> RE: I paid for this? (3/14/2007 2:05:08 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins
Hm, my GeForce drivers give me a choice of "Centered Output" (which doesn't stretch) or Fixed Adapter Scaling or Fixed Aspect Ratio Scaling (which doesn't stretch). Either of the non-stretch options work with Battlefront on my widescreen laptop without stretching it. It just gets sort of a letterboxed look.


Those options do not work in the new nvidia cards 8xxx. Its a known bug that has been unfixed for months now. Just FYI. Almost all games have LCD resos or windowed modes nowadays though so its not a problem. My 32" LCD is superb for 2D strategy games (as long as its not forced to stretch allthough 1024x768 is marginally acceptable). War plan orange worked great on this allthough I dont recall what the reso was.



Page: [1] 2   next >   >>

Valid CSS!




Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI
1.140625