Questions from someone considering buying.. (Full Version)

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Fredk -> Questions from someone considering buying.. (3/13/2007 9:45:06 AM)

Hi all,

I recently posted in the general forum about games that might interest me and WiTP came up a few times and I'd like to ask a few questions of the player base.

Just for the record, I only got into war games about 3 years ago. My favorites are:

HttR
DBWW2 series (KP, BiN, BiI)
Combat Mission Series

So, I've never played anything above operational level, however WiTP looks pretty captivating and I've been impressed by the enthusiasm and activity of the user community.

Anyway, on to the questions:

Obviously, as with any game of this scope there are going to be a few warts (as evidenced by the mods/house rules) and the learning curve is going to be huge. I suppose my question is, are the warts something that are going to prevent me from enjoying the game or do they just come up because the user community is so deeply involved in the game? I look at things like the land combat model, etc. (re: is this normal? thread) or the issues with 4E bombers turning everything into rubble in 1942 and it kind of puts me out. One thing I like about the DB/SSG model is that they aren't afraid to abstract some of the mechanics - it may not make for 100% realism but at least is makes the game mechanics clear and approachable - what is the general feeling on this issue?

Also, is there some kind of newbie primer that would acquaint me with the basic game mechanics?

Would I be better off with something like TOAW 3 than WiTP?

Also, from what I gather the Japanese player has a tough lot, with everything going against him once the allied logistics machine cranks up. What is considered a "win" for the Japanese player? Prolonging the historical time frame? Is anything more possible?

Thanks,
kaiserf



m10bob -> RE: Questions from someone considering buying.. (3/13/2007 12:09:40 PM)

Welcome..
I believe anybody can learn this game above the age of 12, so forget that "curve". It is just a matter of time.
You will start and restart 10 times before you are comfortable.
This is not chess. This game is based on a huge historical event.
Do not expect the Japanese to win, (but it may be possible).
You cannot compare TOAW to WITP.
Both are great games.
Both are the epitomy of what they represent.
This forum IS the help you might need.
If you really need to be convinced to buy the game, you are not ready yet..
We (the rest of the forum) did not just "wander in to get warm"...[;)]



wdolson -> RE: Questions from someone considering buying.. (3/13/2007 1:41:39 PM)

Every game has quirks and bugs. Compared to most other computer games I've played, it has about the same percentage. The total number of quirks is probably higher because this is a highly complex game with lots of things that can go wrong.

The victory conditions are triggered by getting a certain ratio of victory points by a certain date. You can play past that date if you want, but the Japanese could force a victory by Jan 1, 1943 if they get a big enough ratio. It can be done against the AI (after you have some experience playing), or against a really poor or unlucky PBEM opponent.

The ratio goes down over time, but the victory levels go down too. I think the historical victory for the Allies would be a marginal victory in game terms.

Playing Japan is try an exercise in blitzkrieg the first 6 months to a year followed by an exercise in good defense for the rest of the war. Make the Allies pay dearly for every island and you can win on points. Unless you get an auto victory relatively early, you won't win the war. Japan can't possibly control the entire map.

Bill



USSAmerica -> RE: Questions from someone considering buying.. (3/13/2007 3:01:40 PM)

This game has warts.  [:D]  However, they are problems or design "irregularities" that are discovered, questioned, complained about, "house-ruled around", or modded out of a scenario by many VERY passionate players.  It takes a great game to create this many passionate players.  WitP is a great game, warts and all!  [&o]

If you have the time to devote to it, you will not regret the purchase.



denisonh -> RE: Questions from someone considering buying.. (3/13/2007 3:17:28 PM)

I will add that learning the game mechanics does take a little time, but the "mastery" of the game takes much more time.

Recommend reading some of the AARs, as they are a great source of information about the game mechanics, insight into many of the aspects of gameplay, and the "warts" in the context of a PBEM game.

quote:

ORIGINAL: m10bob

Welcome..
I believe anybody can learn this game above the age of 12, so forget that "curve". It is just a matter of time.
You will start and restart 10 times before you are comfortable.
This is not chess. This game is based on a huge historical event.
Do not expect the Japanese to win, (but it may be possible).
You cannot compare TOAW to WITP.
Both are great games.
Both are the epitomy of what they represent.
This forum IS the help you might need.
If you really need to be convinced to buy the game, you are not ready yet..
We (the rest of the forum) did not just "wander in to get warm"...[;)]




siRkid -> RE: Questions from someone considering buying.. (3/13/2007 4:00:29 PM)

There is a tutorial that takes you step-by-step thought several turns to teach you the mechanics and point out some common player mistakes. Also there are several small scenarios that will allow you to learn the game without a huge time investment. This forum will answer any of the questions you have. Also, pinned at the top is an old, old FAQ thread that was put up during the Beta Test. It still contains a lot of good information. I recommend playing the Allies until you get the game down if you do buy it.



JudgeDredd -> RE: Questions from someone considering buying.. (3/13/2007 5:16:55 PM)

I have currently played the Coral Sea scenario 3 times.

The first time, I learned to be very meticulous about checking my settings each turn
The second time I learned to move troops WITH supplies in tow
The third time I learned it's a bad idea to land troops without air support

I'm really enjoying learning and this particular scenario is small enough to be finished in one sitting AND caters for most apects of the game.



tanksone -> RE: Questions from someone considering buying.. (3/13/2007 5:47:34 PM)

Hi, I think everyone else has summed it up pretty well. If the price is what's stopping you then think of it this way. It's the cheapest war game I've ever played because of all the time I've played it. Since it came I usually play it 3-7 days a week, depends on life. Lucky for me my wife is very understanding. Not to brag too much but how many wifes will bring dinner and or beer to you while your playing.


[sm=00000436.gif]



wworld7 -> RE: Questions from someone considering buying.. (3/13/2007 5:53:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tanksone

Hi, I think everyone else has summed it up pretty well. If the price is what's stopping you then think of it this way. It's the cheapest war game I've ever played because of all the time I've played it. Since it came I usually play it 3-7 days a week, depends on life. Lucky for me my wife is very understanding. Not to brag too much but how many wifes will bring dinner and or beer to you while your playing.


[sm=00000436.gif]


Life or WITP...that is the question of the ages...

Flipper




Fredk -> RE: Questions from someone considering buying.. (3/13/2007 7:53:37 PM)

Hey, thanks for the quick and helpful replies by all - first of all the the price isn't what is holding me back - really only $20-$30 greater than your average war game and you get a really massive product, so no concerns there.

On the warts, this is about what I figured - you can't expect something so massive in scope without a few issues cropping up - as someone said they can be modded or house ruled around or they might not even bother some people. Still a bit disappointed that you can't really expect the Japanese player to win though, seems like it would take a bit of fun out of the PBEM games. I realize that if you are going to be realistic about the supply/logistics side of things that this makes sense though.



aztez -> RE: Questions from someone considering buying.. (3/13/2007 7:57:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Fredk

Hey, thanks for the quick and helpful replies by all - first of all the the price isn't what is holding me back - really only $20-$30 greater than your average war game and you get a really massive product, so no concerns there.

On the warts, this is about what I figured - you can't expect something so massive in scope without a few issues cropping up - as someone said they can be modded or house ruled around or they might not even bother some people. Still a bit disappointed that you can't really expect the Japanese player to win though, seems like it would take a bit of fun out of the PBEM games. I realize that if you are going to be realistic about the supply/logistics side of things that this makes sense though.




Actually Japanese do have an fair chance of winning. (or at least I'am facing a lot of troubles in my PBEM's)

Propably going to "lose" the other and the other propably will end up "tied". Allthough we really are not playing for points or such.

You should definately buy the product. It really is not that difficult to get into it. I can guaranteed huge amount of playing hours with Witp. [:)]



Ursa MAior -> RE: Questions from someone considering buying.. (3/13/2007 8:02:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: flipperwasirish


quote:

ORIGINAL: tanksone

Hi, I think everyone else has summed it up pretty well. If the price is what's stopping you then think of it this way. It's the cheapest war game I've ever played because of all the time I've played it. Since it came I usually play it 3-7 days a week, depends on life. Lucky for me my wife is very understanding. Not to brag too much but how many wifes will bring dinner and or beer to you while your playing.


[sm=00000436.gif]


Life or WITP...that is the question of the ages...

Flipper



Yep. I had to choose life. Still not fully recovered from loosing WitP.



Sardaukar -> RE: Questions from someone considering buying.. (3/13/2007 9:43:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tanksone

Hi, I think everyone else has summed it up pretty well. If the price is what's stopping you then think of it this way. It's the cheapest war game I've ever played because of all the time I've played it. Since it came I usually play it 3-7 days a week, depends on life. Lucky for me my wife is very understanding. Not to brag too much but how many wifes will bring dinner and or beer to you while your playing.


[sm=00000436.gif]


Mine brings tea, cake and popcorn but no beer...[8D] That I have to get myself...



Terminus -> RE: Questions from someone considering buying.. (3/13/2007 9:44:47 PM)

Wow! What do you have to do to get her to do that?



pauk -> RE: Questions from someone considering buying.. (3/13/2007 10:00:17 PM)

well T, the first step is to find a women... [:'(]



Terminus -> RE: Questions from someone considering buying.. (3/13/2007 10:08:33 PM)

How would you know?[:'(]



pauk -> RE: Questions from someone considering buying.. (3/13/2007 10:10:41 PM)



trust me![:'(]



pauk -> RE: Questions from someone considering buying.. (3/13/2007 10:12:34 PM)


and stop trolling you spammer![:'(][:-][sm=00000028.gif][sm=00000030.gif][sm=character0229.gif][sm=fighting0043.gif][sm=fighting0045.gif][sm=fighting0083.gif][sm=nono.gif][sm=sad-1361.gif][sm=sterb003.gif] [:D]

[sm=cool0013.gif]



rtrapasso -> RE: Questions from someone considering buying.. (3/13/2007 10:19:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pauk


and stop trolling you spammer![:'(][:-][sm=00000028.gif][sm=00000030.gif][sm=character0229.gif][sm=fighting0043.gif][sm=fighting0045.gif][sm=fighting0083.gif][sm=nono.gif][sm=sad-1361.gif][sm=sterb003.gif] [:D]

[sm=cool0013.gif]


you DO realize you replied to yourself... [;)]



Terminus -> RE: Questions from someone considering buying.. (3/13/2007 10:22:02 PM)

Don't make me lodge a formal complaint against you!

Anyhoo, to stay sort of on topic, WitP is THE GAME if you're interested in the Pacific War. It's got plenty of warts, but it's also got a huge fan base and continued support from the company behind it. Becoming part of this community was one of the better computer gaming-related decisions I've ever made.

Just don't plan on having a life on the side...[;)]



pauk -> RE: Questions from someone considering buying.. (3/13/2007 10:23:13 PM)


Me and SPAM[&:][:-]



Terminus -> RE: Questions from someone considering buying.. (3/13/2007 10:24:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: pauk


Me and SPAM[&:][:-]


Yeah, Spammer!



rogueusmc -> RE: Questions from someone considering buying.. (3/13/2007 11:49:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ursa MAior


quote:

ORIGINAL: flipperwasirish


quote:

ORIGINAL: tanksone

Hi, I think everyone else has summed it up pretty well. If the price is what's stopping you then think of it this way. It's the cheapest war game I've ever played because of all the time I've played it. Since it came I usually play it 3-7 days a week, depends on life. Lucky for me my wife is very understanding. Not to brag too much but how many wifes will bring dinner and or beer to you while your playing.


[sm=00000436.gif]


Life or WITP...that is the question of the ages...

Flipper



Yep. I had to choose life. Still not fully recovered from loosing WitP.

I chose life for a while...it was overrated...[:D]

Lee



m10bob -> RE: Questions from someone considering buying.. (3/14/2007 1:12:58 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Don't make me lodge a formal complaint against you!

Anyhoo, to stay sort of on topic, WitP is THE GAME if you're interested in the Pacific War. It's got plenty of warts, but it's also got a huge fan base and continued support from the company behind it. Becoming part of this community was one of the better computer gaming-related decisions I've ever made.

Just don't plan on having a life on the side...[;)]


It IS a matter of PUBLIC RECORD!!..You are a troll Terminus!![&o]


OOPS..I mean......[:'(]



Terminus -> RE: Questions from someone considering buying.. (3/14/2007 1:14:40 AM)

If I actually was the spammer and troll that I'm accused of being, I'd never have been able to accumulate as many posts as it's taken for people to assume that I'm a spammer and troll... So neener to you![:'(]



m10bob -> RE: Questions from someone considering buying.. (3/14/2007 2:56:29 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

If I actually was the spammer and troll that I'm accused of being, I'd never have been able to accumulate as many posts as it's taken for people to assume that I'm a spammer and troll... So neener to you![:'(]



damn color-blindness...now, was this the green button or this one over he................



Ellsid -> RE: Questions from someone considering buying.. (3/14/2007 3:38:14 AM)

Buy the game,  I bought it a 2 months ago.  World War two Pacific is may favorite theater of operation for WW2.  It has the beauty of the massive Pacific War board game with a computer doing all the maual work.  Just remember you have the knowledge of history on your side.  The game flows quite well. 



Fredk -> RE: Questions from someone considering buying.. (3/14/2007 3:54:09 AM)

Well, it sounds enthralling boys. ;) Still having a hard time deciding.





BrucePowers -> RE: Questions from someone considering buying.. (3/14/2007 5:17:02 AM)

Good luck with the decision. Please let us know what you decided.



MineSweeper -> RE: Questions from someone considering buying.. (3/14/2007 5:45:43 AM)

Get it.....superb game IMO.....[:)]



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