OT?: Pete Rose Admits to Betting On His Own Team (Full Version)

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KG Erwin -> OT?: Pete Rose Admits to Betting On His Own Team (3/15/2007 1:05:28 AM)

See this story: http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6570162?MSNHPHCP>1=9232

In all honesty, I have a real problem with this. Having a gambling addiction is one thing, but even betting on your own team implies that an outsider COULD influence the game.

Do you keep in a faltering starter even if you're winning, and possibly take the risk of injury to that player, just because you have money riding on your team's performance?

I frankly don't care for Pete's spin -- "Because I loved my team." I admired him as a player, but this is too much. No amount of wiggling and spinning, at this point, is gonna help his cause, IMHO.

To my mind, the man's integrity is in the dumpster in perpetuity. It's sad, but I hold the perhaps old-fashioned view that the integrity of the game is more important than forgiving the damage done by any individual player, regardless of his accomplishments.

Does anyone disagree?



sven -> RE: OT?: Pete Rose Admits to Betting On His Own Team (3/15/2007 1:19:27 AM)

Well "everyone lies about gambling!"......

but I digress, frankly when the Red Machine was in swing there were two kinds of fans in my circle....

Rose or Bench.....

I was a Bench fan....



Terl -> RE: OT?: Pete Rose Admits to Betting On His Own Team (3/15/2007 1:34:48 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

...

Does anyone disagree?



Not me. It seems as the years go by more and more comes out. It is a shame such a talented player went out the way he did, but, sadly, that is the way it is. He earned his way into the hall and by his own actions kept himself out of the hall. Sad, sad, sad...but, for me, he should never be admitted.



Hertston -> RE: OT?: Pete Rose Admits to Betting On His Own Team (3/15/2007 1:37:58 AM)

Can't see the problem in betting on your own team to win; it's betting on the other team that would worry me.

I don't see

quote:

Do you keep in a faltering starter even if you're winning, and possibly take the risk of injury to that player, just because you have money riding on your team's performance?


as any sort of argument as it would make no practical difference (it wasn't one huge bet, it was every game). Professional sports coaches always have money, and their jobs, riding on their teams performance.

quote:

Does anyone disagree?


Yup. As the guy got a life ban nearly twenty years ago worrying about his 'integrity' now seems rather pointless. The guy made a mistake, but plenty of people make much worse ones that are forgiven and forgotten a lot sooner.




SMK-at-work -> RE: OT?: Pete Rose Admits to Betting On His Own Team (3/15/2007 1:45:00 AM)

IMO players, coaches and official should be REQUIRED to bet on their own teams - it's only those that bet against their teams that are a problem!



KG Erwin -> RE: OT?: Pete Rose Admits to Betting On His Own Team (3/15/2007 2:33:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SMK-at-work

IMO players, coaches and official should be REQUIRED to bet on their own teams - it's only those that bet against their teams that are a problem!


Here in America, we try to maintain the appearance of fair-played sporting events, even when it's obviously false. Puritanism, with all its blatant hypocrisy, still reigns here. [8|]

The above is a social statement, NOT a political one.



sven -> RE: OT?: Pete Rose Admits to Betting On His Own Team (3/15/2007 3:49:10 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin



The above is a social statement, NOT a political one.



it HAS to be given your blue eyed....never mind.....

Rose should be in the hall and he should be excoricated for his managerial mishaps....

like I said I liked Bench....

Hard work, quiet, composed....

Rose was like a guy who gives you 150% hustle on the job but doubles the likelihood of adverse blowback.....

good to have?

Yeah

a headache and needed watched like a hawk absolutely....



robpost3 -> RE: OT?: Pete Rose Admits to Betting On His Own Team (3/15/2007 4:02:53 AM)

The guys nick was "Charlie Hustle", I'll bet ya(pun intended)that a whole heck of alot of players from all eras bet they just didnt get caught like Petey...this is sports right...I am talkin from Cosell to Catfish to Ruth and Ralph Kiner...Drikin, smokin, cussin, fightin cmon, Ed Holtzmann of the Yanks was half in the bag on a "good night", let alone Jackson and Martin threatening each othres lives daily in the dugout...TV pours it out every pregame show in every sport...odds..over/unders...who is gonna win...the nature of sports is a gamble...I am more interested in why "Pete", who did he P.O.
I am not completly saying everyone, there are still some "for the love of the game" players but I dunno...look at the NBA kinda like a thug Rap Band for the most part...straight shoot--I bet Mr. Pete Rose is weed is sincere that he loved his team and maybe bet with his heart--bottom line give em the hall with a *....just like Braggy Bondo,MercK MgGuire cause if ya put those doppers in well, the halls sanctity is kept in the janitors closet...



KG Erwin -> RE: OT?: Pete Rose Admits to Betting On His Own Team (3/15/2007 4:23:17 AM)

That's the one thing that haunts me -- Pete is a classic "for the love of the game" type of guy. Nevertheless, he screwed up, and it has taken him years to admit his screwups.

Nevertheless, I would vote hardcore on this, even though it hurts badly. No Hall of Fame, ever.



sven -> RE: OT?: Pete Rose Admits to Betting On His Own Team (3/15/2007 4:27:34 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

That's the one thing that haunts me -- Pete is a classic "for the love of the game" type of guy. Nevertheless, he screwed up, and it has taken him years to admit his screwups.

Nevertheless, I would vote hardcore on this, even though it hurts badly. No Hall of Fame, ever.



what Rose did was no less an affront to the game than what Sosa, McGwire, and others have done....

when you have "human" versus "enhanced human" the game is just as atwitter as it would be so long as Rose bet on his own team to win only.....

that said I am no fan of his deeds, but to hold him to a higher ethical and moral standard than we have demanded of certain people who suborned perjury as regards a civil suit while being the top law enforcer of the land is what strikes me as a far ranker hypocrisy than any misdeeds "the boys of summer" may have engaged in.

Pete Rose is not beneath the American people Pete Rose was likely acting as a sort of canary in the mine regaring the moral base of the american people which is to say that it is not that our ideals and "puritanical values" are not worthy or laudable it is that we and the players have collectively fallen below the standards of honor the Hall should embody....

that being the case why not let him in?

Maybe we can disbar him for five years as a slap on the wrist???

No wait he has already 'served" longer than that no?



Zap -> RE: OT?: Pete Rose Admits to Betting On His Own Team (3/15/2007 6:15:46 AM)

Will Sosa, Mcgwire, Bonds, ever be proven. Thats the problem Rose was caught they have squirmed away so far. I would definitely wipe out all their home run records.



robpost3 -> RE: OT?: Pete Rose Admits to Betting On His Own Team (3/15/2007 6:39:22 AM)

quote:

I would definitely wipe out all their home run records.

Agreed...



anarchyintheuk -> RE: OT?: Pete Rose Admits to Betting On His Own Team (3/15/2007 5:21:40 PM)

There wasn't any rule against steroids, hgh, etc. when McGwire et al were using them. There was a rule against betting on baseball when Rose was managing.

I wouldn't let him in the hall ever. He voluntarily signed a document divorcing himself from baseball. Don't sign what you don't mean. Fork him.

Ray Fosse's revenge is dish best served cold.


Edited to add gratuitous comment.



Twotribes -> RE: OT?: Pete Rose Admits to Betting On His Own Team (3/15/2007 6:05:45 PM)

As long as he bet on his own team to win AND wasnt betting on over under score, I think 20 years is enough.



Terl -> RE: OT?: Pete Rose Admits to Betting On His Own Team (3/15/2007 7:21:29 PM)

This morning I saw some old clips on the news of Rose playing and it made me sad knowing he cannot be in the Hall of Fame as it stands now.  But, sad as that is, I also realize he did this to himself.  The rules against betting did not have qualifiers about who he bet on or whether he bet over/under score.  He broke the rules and he is paying a stiff price right now.  He has made it clear as to how much he desires to be in the Hall and one has to wonder if his recent comments are genuine or are just constructed to possibly allow him back.  Rules are rules.  It sucks that he isn't there but he can only blame himself.

I just wish baseball had established firmer rules against steroids earlier because the whole Bonds thing chafes at me.  Hank Aaron was and is a class act and I hate to see Bonds possibly pass him. But, as anarchyintheuk said...no rules were broken at the time.



Mark Carver -> RE: OT?: Pete Rose Admits to Betting On His Own Team (3/15/2007 7:53:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SMK-at-work

IMO players, coaches and official should be REQUIRED to bet on their own teams - it's only those that bet against their teams that are a problem!



There's plenty to go wrong when a manager does bet on his team to win. What if it's a close game and the starter is still in after having thrown 110 pitches. If the manager doesn't have faith in his bullpen. He could leave the starter in longer than he should have and possibly injure the pitcher or effect his next start because he has money riding on the game.

Players, managers or coaches betting on games, should be banned for life from baseball...



KG Erwin -> RE: OT?: Pete Rose Admits to Betting On His Own Team (3/15/2007 9:14:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Carver


... What if it's a close game and the starter is still in after having thrown 110 pitches. If the manager doesn't have faith in his bullpen. He could leave the starter in longer than he should have and possibly injure the pitcher or effect his next start because he has money riding on the game.

Players, managers or coaches betting on games, should be banned for life from baseball...



Yes, Mark, I was thinking the same thing on the potential risk to a pitcher in that situation.



James Ward -> RE: OT?: Pete Rose Admits to Betting On His Own Team (3/15/2007 9:19:11 PM)

I think ALL the managers should be required to bet on their team to win! [:)]



SMK-at-work -> RE: OT?: Pete Rose Admits to Betting On His Own Team (3/16/2007 6:28:01 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Carver

quote:

ORIGINAL: SMK-at-work

IMO players, coaches and official should be REQUIRED to bet on their own teams - it's only those that bet against their teams that are a problem!



There's plenty to go wrong when a manager does bet on his team to win. What if it's a close game and the starter is still in after having thrown 110 pitches. If the manager doesn't have faith in his bullpen. He could leave the starter in longer than he should have and possibly injure the pitcher or effect his next start because he has money riding on the game.


I dont' see your point - any athlete stands a chance of injury in any game, and if he's required to bet on his own team then it is not in his interest to win this game only to throw the next one.

quote:


Players, managers or coaches betting on games, should be banned for life from baseball...


You forgot "IMO"[:'(]



mjk428 -> RE: OT?: Pete Rose Admits to Betting On His Own Team (3/16/2007 8:37:45 AM)

Rose should get the chance to be in the HOF 75 years after Shoeless Joe gets in.



Mark Carver -> RE: OT?: Pete Rose Admits to Betting On His Own Team (3/16/2007 3:27:45 PM)

From Major League Rule 21 (Conduct)... of which is posted in each clubhouse.

http://www.baseball1.com/bb-data/rose/rule21.html

(d) BETTING ON BALL GAMES. Any player, umpire, or club official or
employee, who shall bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in
connection with which the bettor has no duty to perform shall be declared
ineligible for one year.

Any player, umpire, or club or league official or employee, who shall
bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in connection with which
the bettor has a duty to perform shall be declared permanently ineligible.



robpost3 -> RE: OT?: Pete Rose Admits to Betting On His Own Team (3/16/2007 4:01:01 PM)

Thanks Mark...that puts in stone writing...(sorry Pete your love of money outshines that of baseball)...
(f) OTHER MISCONDUCT. Nothing herein contained shall be construed as
exclusively defining or otherwise limiting acts, transactions, practices
or conduct not to be in the best interests of Baseball; and any and all
other acts, transactions, practices or conduct not to be in the best
interests of Baseball are prohibited and shall be subject to such
penalties, including permanent ineligibility, as the facts in the
particular case may warrant.

This great disclaimer hits the steroid "drug enhancement" issue as far as I can tell...
Bye, bye dopers...



sven -> RE: OT?: Pete Rose Admits to Betting On His Own Team (3/16/2007 4:39:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Carver

From Major League Rule 21 (Conduct)... of which is posted in each clubhouse.

http://www.baseball1.com/bb-data/rose/rule21.html

(d) BETTING ON BALL GAMES. Any player, umpire, or club official or
employee, who shall bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in
connection with which the bettor has no duty to perform shall be declared
ineligible for one year.

Any player, umpire, or club or league official or employee, who shall
bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in connection with which
the bettor has a duty to perform shall be declared permanently ineligible.



as I said it is exceedingly charming who gets held to higher standards....

[;)]



James Ward -> RE: OT?: Pete Rose Admits to Betting On His Own Team (3/16/2007 4:56:50 PM)

Hiring a manager who wouldn't bet on his own team to win is like hiring a chef who won't eat his own cooking. Why would you want either one?



Knuckles_85 -> RE: OT?: Pete Rose Admits to Betting On His Own Team (3/16/2007 5:52:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: anarchyintheuk

There wasn't any rule against steroids, hgh, etc. when McGwire et al were using them. There was a rule against betting on baseball when Rose was managing.

I wouldn't let him in the hall ever. He voluntarily signed a document divorcing himself from baseball. Don't sign what you don't mean. Fork him.

Ray Fosse's revenge is dish best served cold.


Edited to add gratuitous comment.

What McGwire and the crew did was worst. What they did was illegal.



robpost3 -> RE: OT?: Pete Rose Admits to Betting On His Own Team (3/16/2007 7:33:18 PM)

quote:

What McGwire and the crew did was worst. What they did was illegal.

No blowin wind there...I agree whole heartedly....



Goblin -> RE: OT?: Pete Rose Admits to Betting On His Own Team (3/16/2007 11:54:35 PM)

Murderers, rapist, child molesters, etc get punished for far shorter periods of time.

He bet on his OWN team, which would encourage him to play even harder to win.

You get drugged up ballplayers now, and no one even thinks twice about it. He commited the absolutely unforgivable act of....wait for it...making a WAGER!!!!! [X(]

He played his ass off to get his stats.

He should be in the Hall.



Goblin




KG Erwin -> RE: OT?: Pete Rose Admits to Betting On His Own Team (3/17/2007 12:05:02 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Goblin

Murderers, rapist, child molesters, etc get punished for far shorter periods of time.

He bet on his OWN team, which would encourage him to play even harder to win.

You get drugged up ballplayers now, and no one even thinks twice about it. He commited the absolutely unforgivable act of....wait for it...making a WAGER!!!!! [X(]

He played his ass off to get his stats.

He should be in the Hall.



Goblin




We'll have to agree to disagree on this one, Goblin. The relevant MLB rules are quoted in a previous post, and it's obvious that Pete broke the rules.



sven -> RE: OT?: Pete Rose Admits to Betting On His Own Team (3/17/2007 4:09:36 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin


quote:

ORIGINAL: Goblin

Murderers, rapist, child molesters, etc get punished for far shorter periods of time.

He bet on his OWN team, which would encourage him to play even harder to win.

You get drugged up ballplayers now, and no one even thinks twice about it. He commited the absolutely unforgivable act of....wait for it...making a WAGER!!!!! [X(]

He played his ass off to get his stats.

He should be in the Hall.



Goblin




We'll have to agree to disagree on this one, Goblin. The relevant MLB rules are quoted in a previous post, and it's obvious that Pete broke the rules.





consequently he should be disbarred for 5 years and prevented from appearing before the Supreme Court....



Zap -> RE: OT?: Pete Rose Admits to Betting On His Own Team (3/17/2007 4:23:29 AM)

For the integrity of the game Pete Rose should be banned. So should the Home run records of Sosa, Mcgwire, Bonds. And possibly they should also be negated consideration for the hall of fame too.

Hank Arron got his record the natural way Bonds became a hormone monstrosity to get where he is. [sm=Christo_pull_hair.gif] And I can't understand anyone defending these guys. Baseball was and is a test of ones natural abilities not some kind of contest to see who can take in the most hormone inhancement!



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