Operational Losses (Full Version)

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Custer1961 -> Operational Losses (3/20/2007 12:43:48 AM)

Getting back into this gem.
I am having trouble with Operational Losses of Aircraft. The only place I can find the number of operational losses I suffer is in the combat intelligence screen. However, this screen does not tell me what squadron is suffering the losses. It just gives an overall total. Does anybody know how to determine what squadron or airfield is suffering operational losses?

Also, any advice on how to keep operational losses down would be wonderful.

Also, anybody have any views on the number of acceptable operational losses. Compared to my Japanese AI, my operational losses make me just this side of a murdering incompetent.



tocaff -> RE: Operational Losses (3/20/2007 1:34:00 AM)

I would imagine that you'd have to keep track of your squadrons to see where the loses are from and even then you won't know if they were from combat or ops.  To hold operational loses down you must keep the pilots rested.  Low morale will keep them from flying, fatigue and loses cause morale to drop.  The longer a mission the more operational loses you'll have.  Acceptable loses?  What's that?  It pains me to lose units for any reason because I need them later.



british exil -> RE: Operational Losses (3/20/2007 10:08:16 PM)

I completely agree with tocaff. Any loss is a loss too much. But we probably aren't as cold blooded as a top ranking General who just pushes little icons over a board and never sees the men on the battlefield! Of course you will have losses part of the game. But it anoys me when I make a stupid mistake and throw away my forces for nothing or a meager piece of land thats worth nothing, but seemed important.

I reckon the aim is to have no losses and destroy the enemy!! But I really doubt that that is possible even on an easy setting.

Still have fun playing



DEB -> RE: Operational Losses (3/21/2007 12:24:11 AM)

From the UV manual:

10.18 Operational Losses

In addition to losses due to combat, aircraft may be damaged or destroyed every time they fly due to operational losses. Every time an aircraft attempts to land it may be destroyed or damaged based on:

- experience as well as fatigue of the pilot
- size of airfield or carrier
- damage to airfield or carrier
- damage suffered by the plane in combat
- the distance flown to the target (this represents greater chance to get
lost or have damage/fatigue impact a long flight).
- missions at extended range double the chance of operational losses.
- level bombers flying an attack mission from an airbase less than or
equal to 3 may suffer operational losses on takeoff. Patrol missions and
CAP (not-long range CAP) treat the range to the target as 1 hex.

The Intelligence Screen shows Allied & Japanese Aircraft losses split by:

Air-to-Air Losses
Destroyed on Field
Destroyed by Flak
Operational Losses

However, the only way to trace any losses by squadron is to review your air units squadron by squadron and day by day, using the List all land based air units / List all naval air units icons on the menu bar, and cross reference with the Intelligence Screen information.

Losses are acceptable; just keep them lower than the opponents and low enough so as not to cause a morale problem.








tocaff -> RE: Operational Losses (3/21/2007 1:44:01 AM)

Actually if you're playing as the Japanese loses less than the Allies suffer will still grind you down in this war of attrition.  I believe that a tactical air or naval victory for the Japanese can be termed a strategic victory for the Allies depending on the loses suffered by Japan.  Play a PBEM as the Japanese and don't go for an auto victory, play an active defense.  You'll win a great many battles, but by January '43 you'll be feeling the squeeze as you begin to  wage a war with mirrors instead of machines.  The Allies can suffer huge loses, in comparison and still keep going.



TAIL GUNNER -> RE: Operational Losses (3/21/2007 1:50:13 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DEB

From the UV manual:

10.18 Operational Losses

In addition to losses due to combat, aircraft may be damaged or destroyed every time they fly due to operational losses. Every time an aircraft attempts to land it may be destroyed or damaged based on:

- experience as well as fatigue of the pilot
- size of airfield or carrier
- damage to airfield or carrier
- damage suffered by the plane in combat
- the distance flown to the target (this represents greater chance to get
lost or have damage/fatigue impact a long flight).
- missions at extended range double the chance of operational losses.
- level bombers flying an attack mission from an airbase less than or
equal to 3 may suffer operational losses on takeoff. Patrol missions and
CAP (not-long range CAP) treat the range to the target as 1 hex.

The Intelligence Screen shows Allied & Japanese Aircraft losses split by:

Air-to-Air Losses
Destroyed on Field
Destroyed by Flak
Operational Losses

However, the only way to trace any losses by squadron is to review your air units squadron by squadron and day by day, using the List all land based air units / List all naval air units icons on the menu bar, and cross reference with the Intelligence Screen information.

Losses are acceptable; just keep them lower than the opponents and low enough so as not to cause a morale problem.








hmmm...nothing about weather?

It was always my experience that offensive air missions in bad weather increased the op losses considerably...



Custer1961 -> RE: Operational Losses (3/21/2007 4:13:59 AM)

I did see that in the manual but it gives no basis on the weight of each factor. Does anybody know if fatigue is much more important than length of mission.......leadership factors........

Does anybody know the calculation involved or is that a "black box" within the program?

For me, it is very difficult to find out what squardron or squadrons are suffering high operational losses and why.




bradfordkay -> RE: Operational Losses (3/21/2007 7:26:07 AM)

" It was always my experience that offensive air missions in bad weather increased the op losses considerably..."

ANY long missions in bad weather will increase the op losses considerably, as well as any transfer of air units to a new base - the longer the distance the greater the chance for operational losses.

Allied players can decrease the number of operational losses on long missions by having a submarine in the target hex, according to Mike Wood (at least in WITP, and I'm pretty sure that it holds true in UV).



Sonny II -> RE: Operational Losses (3/21/2007 1:51:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

" It was always my experience that offensive air missions in bad weather increased the op losses considerably..."

ANY long missions in bad weather will increase the op losses considerably, as well as any transfer of air units to a new base - the longer the distance the greater the chance for operational losses.

Allied players can decrease the number of operational losses on long missions by having a submarine in the target hex, according to Mike Wood (at least in WITP, and I'm pretty sure that it holds true in UV).



Doesn't that only prevent pilot loss, not plane loss?



tocaff -> RE: Operational Losses (3/21/2007 3:07:25 PM)

The pilot is more valuable than the plane.



bradfordkay -> RE: Operational Losses (3/22/2007 7:55:04 AM)

Right, that last part was meant to reduce the loss of pilots to operational loss or combat loss. One too many glasses that time, I fear...



DEB -> RE: Operational Losses (3/22/2007 4:31:08 PM)

quote:

hmmm...nothing about weather?

It was always my experience that offensive air missions in bad weather increased the op losses considerably...

I have checked the weather rules & all the patch notes ( for any changes ), and there is nothing to suggust that bad weather impacts on operational loses.
However, it would seem logical that it should!

My playing experience is limited, therefore if others think it impacts, then I guess it does.
If you are out there Mr Wood, can you confirm?

Thanks.



Joe D. -> RE: Operational Losses (3/22/2007 6:53:33 PM)

I wonder what the aircraft replacement/update tables say re the IJN/IJA; I'm sure the Allies can more easilly replace any lost aircraft, as opposed to the Japanese.



Custer1961 -> RE: Operational Losses (3/22/2007 7:57:47 PM)

Hi joe,
It does appear that the replacement tables are usually historically based and it looks that the Allies do a better job in that regard.

This site has the actual tables used in the game for every scenario:

http://mathubert.free.fr/

Look under the Uncommon Valor section, then "Files/Scenario" part of the site.




Joe D. -> RE: Operational Losses (3/22/2007 8:25:33 PM)

Thanks: I had forgotten about Spooky's site. I wonder if all those special scenarios he has posted there still work under the new 2.5!

Since I move a lot of aircraft around, I've noticed the odds are usually greater to crash in bad wx, esp. if you're moving fighters. There also seems to be a permanent clitch in UV after an operational crash occurs; I have to end the turn then and there to unfreeze the game.

Any one else continue to experience this clitch under 2.5?



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