Is TCP/IP Supported? (Full Version)

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ETF -> Is TCP/IP Supported? (4/1/2007 2:42:52 AM)

Or is this still using the ancient idea of PBEM :)

Also why with the old style UGo IGO routine. Could you have it WEGO? Seems much more realistic no?

Just my two cents............



denisonh -> RE: Is TCP/IP Supported? (4/1/2007 3:18:40 AM)

PBEM may be "ancient", but many getting 4-7 people together for a set time period on a regular basis is difficult, if not impossible, if they have jobs and families. Given the IGO/UGO format, one player would be sitting on his hands while the other player goes. Needs to be a WEGO format for that to work.

As for WEGO, this game is a port of a board game and as such, has to be IGO/UGO. The chances for an "innovative and fresh" apprach for a Napoleonic game left the buidling when they took on a port of "Empires in Arms"......

quote:

ORIGINAL: ETF

Or is this still using the ancient idea of PBEM :)

Also why with the old style UGo IGO routine. Could you have it WEGO? Seems much more realistic no?

Just my two cents............




Alan_Bernardo -> RE: Is TCP/IP Supported? (4/2/2007 12:26:56 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ETF

Or is this still using the ancient idea of PBEM :)

Also why with the old style UGo IGO routine. Could you have it WEGO? Seems much more realistic no?

Just my two cents............



Besides not knowing if TCP/IP is supported, I'm not even sure EiA is supported.

This game will never be released.


Alan



denisonh -> RE: Is TCP/IP Supported? (4/2/2007 12:53:24 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alan_Bernardo


quote:

ORIGINAL: ETF

Or is this still using the ancient idea of PBEM :)

Also why with the old style UGo IGO routine. Could you have it WEGO? Seems much more realistic no?

Just my two cents............



Besides not knowing if TCP/IP is supported, I'm not even sure EiA is supported.

This game will never be released.


Alan


If so, then why bother reading and posting in the forum? Or was that simply a public service announcement?

I do believe the game will eventually get released, I just hope it is not a coaster.



pasternakski -> RE: Is TCP/IP Supported? (4/2/2007 1:38:43 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: denisonh
I do believe the game will eventually get released, I just hope it is not a coaster.


Even then, you could use it under your coffee in that convenient beverage holder that pops out of your computer when you push the right button.

I really wanted this game to be what it was initially announced to be, a new game systen presenting the "Napoleonic Wars" for your gaming pleasure. I was even amenable to it morphing into a port ("morphing into a port" = one of the favorite fun creations of an idle mind waiting for publication) of ADG's EiA, a boardgame I have played fairly extensively, enjoyed to some degree, then shelved due to its various flaws and idiosyncrasies.

Still, I keep the faith (on low flame, back burner on my Coleman stove here where I watch the final disintegration of Western civilization...).



1LTRambo -> RE: Is TCP/IP Supported? (4/2/2007 5:09:14 AM)

Well, there is Crown of Glory, which I have my issues with. But, I have it to play.
What is IGO/UGO?[&:] I've not herd of this before.



denisonh -> RE: Is TCP/IP Supported? (4/2/2007 5:24:03 AM)

You know what it is, maybe not the label

WEGO is a game like WitP, where both players plans are executed simultaneously
IGO/UGO is the standard board game turn phasing with one player going (I go) then the other player going (U go): i.e. like Chess
quote:

ORIGINAL: 1LTRambo

Well, there is Crown of Glory, which I have my issues with. But, I have it to play.
What is IGO/UGO?[&:] I've not herd of this before.




pasternakski -> RE: Is TCP/IP Supported? (4/2/2007 8:07:49 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: denisonh
IGO/UGO is the standard board game turn phasing with one player going (I go) then the other player going (U go): i.e. like Chess

The man is, as always, right on the money.

WEGO was computer wargaming's great gift to the hobby, but I think the rush in that direction has left subtle possibilities latent in the IGO-YUGO dynamic behind. You can build subphases of interactivity into IGO-YUGO that are not available, or at least awkward, in a WEGO design.

Think, for example, of the various action-counteraction points in the great old VG "Fleet" series of modern naval warfare games that depicted aerial-reconnaissance-and-combat and surface-submarine-combat so excellently.

Of course, such systems make PBEM laborious, if not impossible.

So, do we keep moving toward designs that feature PBEM and sell 250 copies each while the hobby dies (and all the 21st century gremlins move on to playing clickety-clickety-bang-bang console games), or do we try to revitalize the computer wargaming business along the lines of delivering what it originally promised: "play head-to-head, or, when you don't have a human opponent, your computer can give you a good game"?



1LTRambo -> RE: Is TCP/IP Supported? (4/2/2007 8:45:19 PM)

Thanks. You were right, I'm familiar with the concept but not the term.[:)]



Froonp -> RE: Is TCP/IP Supported? (11/26/2007 12:15:18 AM)

Seeing that the game is near release, I'm sorry to ask the question but it is important for me : what about TCP/IP play ?

Is it included in the released version ?
If not, will it be included in future patch ?
If future patch, is it on high priority ? (I mean, can we be confident that TCP/IP play will be added soon ?)



Marshall Ellis -> RE: Is TCP/IP Supported? (11/26/2007 1:26:53 AM)

Froonp:

We cannot say yet. We always intended not to release IP in 1.00 but if it were to be added then as an update. Our first priorities will be to respond to any bugs that we find in the initial releases that are critical to game play thus IP options will be on the back burner until the PBEM / Hotseat issues flatten out. Frankly, IP was not as big of a requirement from the EiA community since PBEM allowed people around to the world to play their turns on their own schedules. If I remember correctly, getting people from around the world to get in front of a PC at the same time was a problem.




YohanTM2 -> RE: Is TCP/IP Supported? (11/26/2007 6:14:35 AM)

Have to agree Froonp - and the same goes for WiF


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis

Froonp:

We cannot say yet. We always intended not to release IP in 1.00 but if it were to be added then as an update. Our first priorities will be to respond to any bugs that we find in the initial releases that are critical to game play thus IP options will be on the back burner until the PBEM / Hotseat issues flatten out. Frankly, IP was not as big of a requirement from the EiA community since PBEM allowed people around to the world to play their turns on their own schedules. If I remember correctly, getting people from around the world to get in front of a PC at the same time was a problem.






Froonp -> RE: Is TCP/IP Supported? (11/26/2007 11:11:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis

Froonp:

We cannot say yet. We always intended not to release IP in 1.00 but if it were to be added then as an update. Our first priorities will be to respond to any bugs that we find in the initial releases that are critical to game play thus IP options will be on the back burner until the PBEM / Hotseat issues flatten out. Frankly, IP was not as big of a requirement from the EiA community since PBEM allowed people around to the world to play their turns on their own schedules. If I remember correctly, getting people from around the world to get in front of a PC at the same time was a problem.

That looks like a "no", and its sad, because a friend and I would have bought EiA to play it TCP/IP (he lives 1000 km from me, in the same timezone). He told me that if it was to PBEM it was a no no, and I won't play it alone, so I think this will be a "No" until the game comes out with TCP/IP play.

I think you're wrong in believing that "getting people from around the world to get in front of a PC at the same time was a problem", it is an US centered point of view that we do not have here in Europe where we are all roughly in the same time zone. Here we would have the same problems at getting people to get in front of a PC at the same time as we have at getting people to get around the game table at the same time. As we manage to do it for real boardgames, and we manage to do it for Vassal online games, we also can manage to do it for TCP/IP games.

For comparison, MWiF is designed to include TCP/IP play, and this makes no doubt in the head of the designers that this is necessary.



Marshall Ellis -> RE: Is TCP/IP Supported? (11/27/2007 2:41:11 AM)

Froonp:

I did not say no. We will listen to the community as we have in the past. This issue is not a belief of mine but a question we asked the community and PBEM was WAY up above IP play.

Do not dispair...
I can never say never but I also cannot predict what the masses will ask for tomorrow...




Erik Rutins -> RE: Is TCP/IP Supported? (11/27/2007 4:18:05 AM)

Hey Froonp,

Why won't your friend do PBEM play?

Regards,

- Erik



JavaJoe -> RE: Is TCP/IP Supported? (11/27/2007 5:05:54 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Hey Froonp,

Why won't your friend do PBEM play?

Regards,

- Erik



Froonp,

Make new friends that play it pbem. There will be plenty of people that can use you.

Joe



Froonp -> RE: Is TCP/IP Supported? (11/27/2007 7:45:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Hey Froonp,

Why won't your friend do PBEM play?

Regards,

- Erik

Because it is too slow to wait for the other sides' turn, when in reality EiA is a fast paced game face to face (and so TCP/IP). Turns can be played really quickly when you know the game, so playing 10 minutes and waiting for the other player (maybe for days) for playing again 10 minutes is not worth the money. Playing through Vassal is much more thrill.



Murat -> RE: Is TCP/IP Supported? (11/27/2007 8:17:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp
Because it is too slow to wait for the other sides' turn, when in reality EiA is a fast paced game face to face (and so TCP/IP). Turns can be played really quickly when you know the game, so playing 10 minutes and waiting for the other player (maybe for days) for playing again 10 minutes is not worth the money. Playing through Vassal is much more thrill.


We did 12 hour Saturdays for 5 months to finish a FtF game with diplomacy limited to 15 min per phase. You can easily fill up the time between moves but creating nefarious plots to overthrow your neighbors [sm=sign0066.gif][sm=00000007.gif]



Norden_slith -> RE: Is TCP/IP Supported? (11/28/2007 9:39:56 AM)

Exactly. Sitting at your own leisure studying the map, formulating plans and having time to discuss it at length with other players and kibitzers. IP for a game like this is almost violating it, its a thinking game. IP and fancy graphics, always the same. Can I have a first person perspective and a gun please? [;)]

one more week to go,



Froonp -> RE: Is TCP/IP Supported? (11/28/2007 10:33:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Norden

Exactly. Sitting at your own leisure studying the map, formulating plans and having time to discuss it at length with other players and kibitzers. IP for a game like this is almost violating it, its a thinking game. IP and fancy graphics, always the same. Can I have a first person perspective and a gun please? [;)]

one more week to go,

IP does not mean its not a thinking game, and does not mean either that it is an FPS.
You have strange concepts of IP gaming. Dismaying.



Norden_slith -> RE: Is TCP/IP Supported? (11/29/2007 10:37:39 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

ORIGINAL: Norden

Exactly. Sitting at your own leisure studying the map, formulating plans and having time to discuss it at length with other players and kibitzers. IP for a game like this is almost violating it, its a thinking game. IP and fancy graphics, always the same. Can I have a first person perspective and a gun please? [;)]

one more week to go,

IP does not mean its not a thinking game, and does not mean either that it is an FPS.
You have strange concepts of IP gaming. Dismaying.



Dismaying are people who misinterpret others posts. Also, it might be dismaying if my idea of IP had any influence whatsoever on you, which it doesnt. So dont be dismayed.

That said, my experience with IP IS a sad one. All to many games have way to few eurobased gamers. Anyway, in the case of EiA I vastly prefer email.





ravinhood -> RE: Is TCP/IP Supported? (11/29/2007 1:28:44 PM)

Where do people get off PBEM is "ancient"? I would say and think it's the PREFERRED way of playing turn based wargames over the internet. These games take too much time to get 7 people together and play TCP/IP, maybe LAN, but, TCP/IP?? Too many opportunities for disconnects and lag and quitters when losing and all the other flaws that come with tcp/ip playing games. I'll take PBEM any day over TCP/IP play. It takes money to create the ability to play TCP/IP in a game and those resources could be better used for improving something else within the game like the AI. ;) Turn based games just weren't meant for tcp/ip type play. I don't know how many countless games of Civilization and HOMM and Age of Wonders I started only to have people drop out and the games never finished. TCP/IP might work for a group of dedicated friends/gamers, but, for the most part it's pretty much a failure online. PBEM is the way to go and perfect for turn based wargames.



jmo2l -> RE: Is TCP/IP Supported? (11/29/2007 1:28:49 PM)

Don't worry Froonp: I'll be happy to PBEM with you on EiA [:)][:)][:)]
And I'm in France, in Brest, so no different time zone for us[:D]
And to be honnest, my TCP/IP experience for wargame is VERY  bad.



Ursa MAior -> RE: Is TCP/IP Supported? (11/29/2007 9:02:38 PM)

Count me in!



Ralegh -> RE: Is TCP/IP Supported? (11/29/2007 11:36:42 PM)

The inital release supports shared-computer, and PBEM.

If all players had access to a common save location (whether a network drive or a drivemapped share on the net somewhere), you could all save the files to that shared location, and the game would proceed very quickly.  At this stage, you would still need to manually load each of those saves, so this is not as good as true TCP/IP would be.  [I have tested this using a hosted Sharepoint document library.]

If enough people want it, perhaps true tcp/ip support could be a feature for a patch... - certainly many other matrix games support it.



Peeking Duck? -> RE: Is TCP/IP Supported? (11/29/2007 11:40:29 PM)

Have to say I'm really disappointed about the no TCP/IP support.  Nothing wrong with PBEM, but me and my two brothers (plus a couple of friends) like to talk rubbish while playing :)  Shame as I was thinking of buying this for their xmas presents (will the game survive without me? [:'(]) - gonna have a rethink though before I commit.



Murat -> RE: Is TCP/IP Supported? (11/30/2007 3:55:27 AM)

Norden, just invade froonp, he'll surrender immediately like they always do and in about 2-3 years someone from here will have to go rescue him ^_^

I just do not see 5-7 people staying awake long enough to pursue a full game over TCP/IP, especially talking trash [:D]



Veldor -> RE: Is TCP/IP Supported? (11/30/2007 7:13:15 AM)

People can drop out of a PBEM game just as much as a live game. Its less likely they might do so for emergency reasons (Kids, Dinner, whatever) but can be more likely for other reasons (Even 1 player who just simply takes too long between turns etc.) People generally socialize more during TCP/IP games as well compared to PBEM, which can be a nice touch.

TCP/IP disconnects really aren't a problem with the proper system in place to accomodate reconnects (With worst case being an AI takeover). With the proper system neither is meeting people online in order to find opponents. A Timer can also be set to limit the annoyance of waiting, much like in the real world.

A pretty decent model for all of the above is Paradox's Diplomacy. Unfortuneately the game itself was abysmal with poor sales and even poorer support (That's long since been 100% abandoned) but the core MutliPlayer TCP/IP model was a good one and the game has similar requirements in that department to EiA.

It in know way would seem to be a simple undertaking and anything less than that level of TCP/IP support would not seem acceptable to me. As it was people complained about that one. Multi-player TCP/IP is far more complicated than 2-player TCP/IP.

For the record though I'd love to play EiA TCP/IP though I'll gladly accept PBEM until such a time it exists, if ever.

PS. If I remember correctly with Diplomacy you could "save the game" to the server and continue on whatever other occasion you got together. So no 5am jam sessions if one didnt' wish one. Technology makes anything possible, its just a question of cost, effort and feasibility.



onkelh -> RE: Is TCP/IP Supported? (12/3/2007 1:28:21 AM)

Why do u guys trash 1 thing or the other ?? What i dont understand is why it couldnt have been made with both options ??



Marshall Ellis -> RE: Is TCP/IP Supported? (12/3/2007 3:14:34 PM)

onkelh:

It could have been. We just didn't want to add another year for release :-)
I've already looked at some of the aspects of 7 player / IP and it will be time consuming. The IP issues are not as complicated but the socket strategy of updating 6 players for every turn can be tricky.



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