Navies and Blockades (Full Version)

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wolflars -> Navies and Blockades (5/18/2007 12:04:38 AM)

For the USA player:

how effective is it to blockade CSA ports?

How many ships per port is effective? I 5 about right?

As far as constructing ships? What kind at what ratio?

For the CSA

Should the CSA build any ships or is it a waste...I seem to like the blockade runners but are they effective in the long run?


Thanks for any advice.







Drex -> RE: Navies and Blockades (5/18/2007 12:17:06 AM)

You need 3 ship units (30 ships) per fleet to blockade one port. I believe there are 8 CSA ports to blockade so you need 8 fleets. I have the CSA blockaded in my game right now but I'm not sure what the effect is because I also have diplomacy maxed out so they are getting the double whammy.



Twotribes -> RE: Navies and Blockades (5/18/2007 2:13:46 AM)

Blockading ports lowers the amount of items the South gets from Europe each turn. I had the South totally blockaded and had lowered support from Europe successfully, they routinely got 0 of something, and yes it tells you 0.



Twotribes -> RE: Navies and Blockades (5/18/2007 2:14:24 AM)

Also The North gets victory points for blockadeing at set levels.



General Quarters -> RE: Navies and Blockades (5/18/2007 4:33:47 AM)

It's not clear to me how much help it is, if any, to blockade just 3 or 4 ports.



Gray_Lensman -> RE: Navies and Blockades (5/18/2007 10:33:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: General Quarters

It's not clear to me how much help it is, if any, to blockade just 3 or 4 ports.


Referring to page 109 of the manual:

European Resources and Ports - The amount of resources or research that the CSA receives from a European power is proportional to the ratio of unblockaded CSA ports to total CSA ports. For example, if the USA has fleets containing at least 3 ships each blockading 50% of the CSA's ports, then the CSA receives 50% of the normal resources and research from the European Powers.

So as you can see, it can have a huge effect on resources and research from Europe. It can actually choke it completely off, regardless of the CSA European support level.

Blockading 3 ports would reduce imports to 62.5%
Blockading 4 ports would reduce imports to 50.0%

Blockade Runners are a separate item.



General Quarters -> RE: Navies and Blockades (5/18/2007 10:01:33 PM)

Thanks, Gray. It's getting to be time to re-read the manual.



wolflars -> RE: Navies and Blockades (5/19/2007 10:18:56 PM)

Thanks guys.

So, then 3 ships per port seems to be the magic number. Seems pretty clear but it is WORTH the expense to build all those ships?

Does this affect the runners in any way? How many runners are ideal for the CSA? And does it make any sense to build any CSA ships or is it just a waste?




Gray_Lensman -> RE: Navies and Blockades (5/19/2007 11:14:53 PM)

I am assuming 3 full strength ships (frigates are included). It does affect blockade runners to some extent. See page 81 of the manual.

Anti-Blockade Runner Actions - USA ships have an intrinsic anti-blockade-runner function. At the end of each movement segment, each USA ship has a 10% chance to destroy a blockade runner located in its province. This happens before blockade runners gather resources.

I would presume that if you have the minimum 3 ships for blockade purposes, you would have 3 x 10% chances to destroy a runner in their province, if I'm not mistaken in how I read that.

I'm not sure if it is justified, game wise, to build all those ships, but it sure is historical, and to a small extent, adds to the flavor of the game.



Gil R. -> RE: Navies and Blockades (5/19/2007 11:17:44 PM)

The CSA's runners income is decreased as the number of blockaded ports goes up, so blockading is very much worthwhile. For the CSA, it can pay to build ships, especially if the USA's fleets are all weak (i.e., just three or so ships per fleet). The CSA should either build a lot of non-runner ships or none.

I find that the CSA usually doesn't need more than three runners fleets, since it's rare for there to be more than three shipments of runners goods that are low-risk, high-reward, unless the CSA is doing very well in diplomacy. Having four fleets would be nice, since sometimes you might be desperate enough for a resource to want to send two fleets to a sea zone that has it to ensure not missing out.

When playing the CSA, I usually use my first-turn money to build a runners fleet, since that way I can get other resources all the sooner.



Gray_Lensman -> RE: Navies and Blockades (5/19/2007 11:25:46 PM)

 
Gil, am I understanding the odds right, that if a runner spent a combat segment in a province with a 3-ship blockading fleet, the runner would have 3 x 10% chances of being destroyed?



Walloc -> RE: Navies and Blockades (5/20/2007 12:29:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gil R.

The CSA's runners income is decreased as the number of blockaded ports goes up, so blockading is very much worthwhile. For the CSA, it can pay to build ships, especially if the USA's fleets are all weak (i.e., just three or so ships per fleet). The CSA should either build a lot of non-runner ships or none.



Actaully i think that is wrong Gil. I find in experience that runner targets depence solely on entry level of european powers.
Blockading of ports only decrease the direct gifts as well as tech gifts.
I've been blockaded on all 8 ports but have had high entry levels and my runner targets never been higher.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gray_Lensman

Gil, am I understanding the odds right, that if a runner spent a combat segment in a province with a 3-ship blockading fleet, the runner would have 3 x 10% chances of being destroyed?


Only if the not blocaking a port and they in same sea province, but if thet blockade they dont hunt runners. At leased thats my experience. Blue vs brown water blockade.

Kind regards,

Rasmus




Gray_Lensman -> RE: Navies and Blockades (5/20/2007 12:43:36 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Walloc

<snip>

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gray_Lensman

Gil, am I understanding the odds right, that if a runner spent a combat segment in a province with a 3-ship blockading fleet, the runner would have 3 x 10% chances of being destroyed?


Only if the not blocaking a port and they in same sea province, but if thet blockade they dont hunt runners. At leased thats my experience. Blue vs brown water blockade.

Kind regards,

Rasmus



Cool, makes sense too.

Thx Walloc



Gil R. -> RE: Navies and Blockades (5/20/2007 12:55:02 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Walloc

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gil R.

The CSA's runners income is decreased as the number of blockaded ports goes up, so blockading is very much worthwhile. For the CSA, it can pay to build ships, especially if the USA's fleets are all weak (i.e., just three or so ships per fleet). The CSA should either build a lot of non-runner ships or none.



Actaully i think that is wrong Gil. I find in experience that runner targets depence solely on entry level of european powers.
Blockading of ports only decrease the direct gifts as well as tech gifts.
I've been blockaded on all 8 ports but have had high entry levels and my runner targets never been higher.



Yeah, you're right, I was misremembering. As p. 64 of the manual says, blockades affect the direct contributions from Europe, not the ones indirectly given in the form of runners' goods. Still, that doesn't take away from my overall point, that blockading is very good, because the South relies greatly on those unexpected gifts of iron, money, etc. from Europe.

This game has too many rules to remember. I suggest that we hold a series of votes to eliminate half.



Walloc -> RE: Navies and Blockades (5/20/2007 1:05:58 AM)

hehe,
1st on the voting block: Eliminate rule named Gil!!
2nd vote: Eliminate my posting rights!

ops, going in hiding [:D]

Any how if i should give my personal advice i'd say keeping entry levels lower is better than blockading tho not exculsivly so.

Reason is: Gift depence on entry level. 10% chance of a gift per entry level of each euro pwr.
So if entry level 0, no need to do blockades, to stop the non comming gifts.
2ndly low Entry levels reduce runner goods too.
So with low entry levels u get both.
That said u dont get the VP bonus that way. You need to actual blockade for that and the entry level game is more insecure than blockading.

This is my speculation, but i stronly suspect the AI get some bonus in diplo game. Prolly depending on difficulty level. So i'd take that into account too. Eric might come wack me and say, no!

Kind regards,

Rasmus

P.S I also strongly suspect that i've played this game too much!!!



Twotribes -> RE: Navies and Blockades (5/20/2007 4:22:37 AM)

USA gains victory points for blockading at 2 different set levels. So there is still reason to blockade.



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