Basic Channel Mistake! AAR (Full Version)

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Marshall Ellis -> Basic Channel Mistake! AAR (5/25/2007 10:37:34 PM)

Hey guys:

I wanted to share a very interesting situation my play testing came up with. While playing GBR in a solo game, I made a very basic mistake and left the channel open while I was chasing the Swedish fleets around in the baltic. I only did this for one month but as you can see, it was long enough for the whole French army to move across. Thinking I could recover from this quickly, I moved Nelson down to seal off the channel and trapped the French army (Or so I thought). I quickly moved Wellington from Holland down to defeat Davout who was next to Lille (I could not come down and go across the channel in the same turn). Davout and his one corps fell victim to Wellington (I even captured Davout) BUT the damage was done. Not being able to cross the channel thus delaying my army by a month then forced me to sue for peace the next turn since there was no physical way to recapture London!

After looking at this a little further, I realized that my ships in the channel were keeping the French army from getting into France so when I did cross the channel in the next turn and actually did defeat Napoleon, he simply retreated back to London further sealing my fate (and the game). Almost a no win???

Just wanted to give you a piece of advice: Don't let Nelson go ADD on you :-)









[image]local://upfiles/4396/8678D878834D47F596AE4D106DFB0CD3.jpg[/image]



Mardonius -> RE: Basic Channel Mistake! AAR (5/25/2007 11:16:51 PM)

Very savvy AI to figure to leave a delaying corps to cost you the month's move. That is a very welcome subtlety.

[image]local://upfiles/24637/4916333E3667467AAFC03AF92A677880.jpg[/image]



Ursa MAior -> RE: Basic Channel Mistake! AAR (5/26/2007 9:51:26 PM)

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH a screenshot finally!



YohanTM2 -> RE: Basic Channel Mistake! AAR (5/27/2007 3:45:37 PM)

Glad someone is playing the game!



yammahoper -> RE: Basic Channel Mistake! AAR (5/27/2007 6:21:02 PM)

This is a perfect example of how handy an instant save is. After making a minor mistake and losing your entire NATION, you can reload and do over, with a lesson learned about just how aware the AI is.

Hope ya had a save, lol.

Still, AI looks good. Certain mistakes should be jumped on. One the french sometimes make is to leave fleets in a garrisoned port, or with one corp, and the rest of the army gets so far away the brits can jump a quick corp down and try to seize the port/city. With a little luck, the result is scuttled french navies. If the french come screaming over to attack, the brit can pull out in the next naval phase.

yamma



jamo262 -> RE: Basic Channel Mistake! AAR (5/28/2007 12:33:39 PM)

Nice screen shot Marshall! The Map looks really good as does the lettering and numbers.

I was wondering though if you dont agree that the depot and garrison counters couldnt be better represented.

With colour coding, the depots need be merely square shaped without the flag or writing (or writing in a corner if its imperative for ID).

Similary, the garrisons seem to overwhelm the map. Im not sure what would be best here. Do they contain any information for an oposing player such as being a small /medium or /large sized garrison?

If not then perhaps just the square national flag is enough?

I imagine that it would take too much proramming time to animate the flag and make it wave-like mine to the right :-)

I imagine not- but I submit it to you as an idea.

What are your thoughts?



iamspamus -> RE: Basic Channel Mistake! AAR (5/28/2007 3:53:22 PM)

Great, thanks Marshall.

As a defensive player (of every country I play), I place a 1 inf or mil garrison in EACH city that I own...at least. This would not have prevented the loss of London, probably, but would allow or a somewhat ready reserve of infantry. But to be honest Nap with his whole army in London is a bad thing.

One question. Why did you surrender after one turn of London being taken? (This asked from a Russian player's point of view?) If Nap is in England, what's in France? Straight to Paris, matey!

Jason
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis

Hey guys:

I wanted to share a very interesting situation my play testing came up with. While playing GBR in a solo game, I made a very basic mistake and left the channel open while I was chasing the Swedish fleets around in the baltic. I only did this for one month but as you can see, it was long enough for the whole French army to move across. Thinking I could recover from this quickly, I moved Nelson down to seal off the channel and trapped the French army (Or so I thought). I quickly moved Wellington from Holland down to defeat Davout who was next to Lille (I could not come down and go across the channel in the same turn). Davout and his one corps fell victim to Wellington (I even captured Davout) BUT the damage was done. Not being able to cross the channel thus delaying my army by a month then forced me to sue for peace the next turn since there was no physical way to recapture London!

After looking at this a little further, I realized that my ships in the channel were keeping the French army from getting into France so when I did cross the channel in the next turn and actually did defeat Napoleon, he simply retreated back to London further sealing my fate (and the game). Almost a no win???

Just wanted to give you a piece of advice: Don't let Nelson go ADD on you :-)









[image]local://upfiles/4396/8678D878834D47F596AE4D106DFB0CD3.jpg[/image]




Rosen -> RE: Basic Channel Mistake! AAR (5/28/2007 8:03:05 PM)

Just one thing about the garrisons size, for me it would be enough removing the tower and just keep the flag...



Monadman -> RE: Basic Channel Mistake! AAR (5/28/2007 11:57:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rosen

Just one thing about the garrisons size, for me it would be enough removing the tower and just keep the flag...


Side by side comparison per your request.

Richard


[image]local://upfiles/18990/EC539116F6CC4E4FB82CF6F2C7BCB825.jpg[/image]



Rosen -> RE: Basic Channel Mistake! AAR (5/29/2007 12:14:53 AM)

Looks very nice to me [:)]



jamo262 -> RE: Basic Channel Mistake! AAR (5/29/2007 8:20:32 AM)

Thanks for the comparison

Hmmm still not right though. Help me here.

We don't need the writing on the garrison because its already self evident where it is located.

This is harder-but, could a small animated triangular flag fly from on of the spires to indicate garrison? A sprite?

If an approximation of strength is needed there could be 2 options.

1) the height of the flag or a colour bar on the flag pole.

2) for each unit <5 another small triangular waving flag from a spire.

Probably too much time to implement but a possibility for the future to experiment with?






Monadman -> RE: Basic Channel Mistake! AAR (5/30/2007 3:38:27 AM)

Agree that the name is redundant. However, I’m having a hard enough time trying to get the garrison downsizing proposal thru - don’t hold your breath for animation.

Latest concept below . . .

Richard


[image]local://upfiles/18990/349D779C78CA430ABE3303A09C5B20A0.jpg[/image]



yammahoper -> RE: Basic Channel Mistake! AAR (5/30/2007 4:15:19 AM)


I don't know if I would enjoy 100 waving flags cluttering my screen. Good, crisp and clean pictures for me!

yamma



JodiSP -> RE: Basic Channel Mistake! AAR (5/30/2007 5:52:29 AM)

I have to agree with yammahoper, a 100 waving flags on a single screen may drive me mad.



The small tower on the Edinburgh city would work fine, as the large towers does tend to make the map appear a bit to cluttered for me



j-s -> RE: Basic Channel Mistake! AAR (5/31/2007 3:12:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rosen

Looks very nice to me [:)]


Yes, I like it a much more. Why to add tower, it's not needed. Let's keep it simple, folks. And let's keep map clear.



carnifex -> RE: Basic Channel Mistake! AAR (5/31/2007 6:29:59 PM)

I'm just pissed that the army corps counters aren't square :)  I really wanted to look at something like this:

[image]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/blackbellamy/great_pech.jpg[/image]

I'm hoping to be able to mod the graphics files.







Will_L_OLD -> RE: Basic Channel Mistake! AAR (6/1/2007 2:58:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: carnifex

I'm just pissed that the army corps counters aren't square :) I really wanted to look at something like this:

[image]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/blackbellamy/great_pech.jpg[/image]

I'm hoping to be able to mod the graphics files.


Don't forget to put morale misprints on the back of the counters [:D]







iamspamus -> RE: Basic Channel Mistake! AAR (6/1/2007 10:21:41 AM)

To be honest, I agree. I am just used to seeing them at this size.
Jason


quote:

ORIGINAL: carnifex

I'm just pissed that the army corps counters aren't square :)  I really wanted to look at something like this:

[image]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/blackbellamy/great_pech.jpg[/image]

I'm hoping to be able to mod the graphics files.





j-s -> RE: Basic Channel Mistake! AAR (6/1/2007 10:00:19 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: carnifex

I'm just pissed that the army corps counters aren't square :)  I really wanted to look at something like this:

[image]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/blackbellamy/great_pech.jpg[/image]

I'm hoping to be able to mod the graphics files.







Me too...
But what the hell are those turkish corps doing in Moscow... [8D]



Marshall Ellis -> RE: Basic Channel Mistake! AAR (6/1/2007 10:31:52 PM)

Hey guys:

I'm afraid the counters that you see are the ones that will be in Version 1.00. I tend to agree with the sq shapes but keep in mind that what you're asking could potentially delay a release since an entire counter redesign will go back to the graphics department and force more testing to ensure stack spacing is OK (i.e. too much stack overlap can wreak havoc on the engine trying to determine which stack you're clicking). I would rather look at this post release.




YohanTM2 -> RE: Basic Channel Mistake! AAR (6/2/2007 1:27:48 PM)

Good decision
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis

Hey guys:

I'm afraid the counters that you see are the ones that will be in Version 1.00. I tend to agree with the sq shapes but keep in mind that what you're asking could potentially delay a release since an entire counter redesign will go back to the graphics department and force more testing to ensure stack spacing is OK (i.e. too much stack overlap can wreak havoc on the engine trying to determine which stack you're clicking). I would rather look at this post release.






Pans -> RE: Basic Channel Mistake! AAR (6/2/2007 10:06:01 PM)

Hi together,

I fully agree to postpone the counter design for later.
I´m really happy with "old" version 1.0 !

What I´ve seen so far looks very impressive to me and I´m waiting to have this working on my PC

Thanks



jamo262 -> RE: Basic Channel Mistake! AAR (6/3/2007 5:34:20 PM)

Hi Monadman,

Yes thanks for playing around with the counters. Like Marshall says the nuts and bolts of getting it out is more important. Feedback from us is probably useful down the track if there is ever a version 2.

I agree that animated waving flags might be a bit much- I was thinking of those paradox games with the little men marching.

If you are all focused on getting the game out and not on making it pretty could you please tell-how moddable is this game do you think?

Will we be able to tinker and add our improvements?

ps. the little turrent on top of the flag doesnt look right. Why not a white "G" on the counter to differentiate garrisons



Monadman -> RE: Basic Channel Mistake! AAR (6/3/2007 6:39:47 PM)

You can redesign the bitmaps all you want but you will not be able to resize them until Marshall finds the time to code it so the program will not crash.

Richard



jamo262 -> RE: Basic Channel Mistake! AAR (6/4/2007 8:00:06 AM)

Hi Id like to see this game sell well.

How many copies of this game do you nedd to sell over what time period for it to be considered a sucess?



iamspamus -> RE: Basic Channel Mistake! AAR (6/6/2007 2:04:25 PM)

Good question.
Jason


quote:

ORIGINAL: jamo262

Hi Id like to see this game sell well.

How many copies of this game do you nedd to sell over what time period for it to be considered a sucess?




Marshall Ellis -> RE: Basic Channel Mistake! AAR (6/7/2007 11:51:26 PM)

Jamo262:

Speaking JUST FOR ME ... "1" KIDDING. This is hard to put a finger on since I would like for this engine to spark more scenarios, games, etc. If it does these things then I would consider it a success. The engine we have designed should allow games to be developed in a matter of months since all we need to do is add/delete rules from our action chart then units and maps and BOOM! ... New Game! This is probably laughable to many of you who have watched this development cycle BUT the point is that every change we make, we make in the interest of not just EiANW but perhaps "EiA Conquer the World", "EiA The American Revolution" or maybe even EiA WWI. Bascially you guys will determine many of these things...




yammahoper -> RE: Basic Channel Mistake! AAR (6/8/2007 8:21:20 PM)

quote:

every change we make, we make in the interest of not just EiANW but perhaps "EiA Conquer the World", "EiA The American Revolution" or maybe even EiA WWI. Bascially you guys will determine many of these things...


DROOL DROOL DROOL DROOL.

Today is my bday, and the above was a wonderful gift!

Thanks Marshall.

yamma



Murat -> RE: Basic Channel Mistake! AAR (6/8/2007 11:24:21 PM)

I seem to recall a US Civil War game based on the same system as EiA (Corps with the boxes you fill in for I C A) but it was nowhere near as fun.



Frank McNally -> RE: Basic Channel Mistake! AAR (6/11/2007 5:24:51 PM)

Mondaman,

Can a pixel in a bitmap be transparent such that what the image is sitting on is visible?  Perhaps that'd be the cludgy fix  (would be aselection nuisance) but would make for a cleaner appearance. 

My prefernce would be for a small colored box (or square flag) with number of Garrison factors, perhaps a second number if corps are present e.g. "5" meaning 5 factors and "15,1" meaning 15 factors including a corp being present (premumably one must reveal a corps' strength to prove ability to enter city?)

Frank



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