Coral Sea Much More Fun - Thoughts on Other Scens (Full Version)

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Adam Parker -> Coral Sea Much More Fun - Thoughts on Other Scens (6/10/2007 6:24:23 AM)

The Coral Sea scen opens up a lot more fun vs the AI, due to the dispersal and mix of the IJN force. I hold good hopes for Midway, Guadal and latter war scens now (ie the bigger scens). With this security blanket in hand, I'll try to sit back now and look at enjoying.

It is likely that Wake and Pearl are best played vs the AI as the Japanese.

I also just noticed a feature in the scen selection screen where the player can give control of elements of his forces to the AI. That could be interesting to experiement with.

I would suggest though, that in the War Room selection area, a "random AI historical force mix" option be provided to enhance play life vs the plausible "what if?".



tedhealy -> RE: Coral Sea Much More Fun - Thoughts on Other Scens (6/10/2007 6:43:00 AM)

Yeah, Wake and Pearl seem to be more of a tutorial in a way.  Very simple and not much to do.  Coral Sea really shows off the fun that can be had with this game.



Caltone -> RE: Coral Sea Much More Fun - Thoughts on Other Scens (6/10/2007 6:53:03 AM)

The four major carrier battles of '42 are all good for me, Coral Sea, Midway, Eastern Solomons, and Santa Cruz.



CJMello63 -> RE: Coral Sea Much More Fun - Thoughts on Other Scens (6/10/2007 2:54:01 PM)

I'll try it later. Hopefully we get some larger and longer user made SCN's.



blastpop -> RE: Coral Sea Much More Fun - Thoughts on Other Scens (6/10/2007 3:48:41 PM)

I'm thinking Phillipine Sea would best be played as the Japanese, since the challenge is high. I'm sure I'll play as the American too with all those carriers! God, that is going to be so cool. [:)]



CJMello63 -> RE: Coral Sea Much More Fun - Thoughts on Other Scens (6/10/2007 6:37:29 PM)

I lost all my carriers, now I am screwed.



JoeBobShaw -> RE: Coral Sea Much More Fun - Thoughts on Other Scens (6/10/2007 7:31:41 PM)

Coral Sea fun ... yeah ... yeah that was certainly MY experience with it ...

Out of my entire force I ended up with two heavily damaged CAs, a CL that was barely afloat and two tin cans with damage ... that's it. EVERYTHING else was on the bottom.

I did manage to damage the Shokaku [8|]

Stupid game [:D]

Joe




blastpop -> RE: Coral Sea Much More Fun - Thoughts on Other Scens (6/10/2007 8:04:06 PM)

The challenge with Coral Sea is not so much the perfect plan, but the plan to just survive. As the American player, you know the Japanese is heading for Moresby. How do you derail it and manage to survive? My thought is not to go headlong after the Japanese, instead waiting some time to pick of elements as thay pass closer to New Guinia and or Australia, where they are more vulnerable and come into range of the land based Australian air bases. They will also tend to stray from the pack. It would seem to give the Americans a fighting chance, something less than 50-50 though. The Japanese are just spoiling for a heads up fight- they know they will win that if given a chance. Play a cat and mouse game as the Americans to fight a battle at a time of your choosing.



LarryP -> RE: Coral Sea Much More Fun - Thoughts on Other Scens (6/10/2007 8:31:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: blastpop

The challenge with Coral Sea is not so much the perfect plan, but the plan to just survive. As the American player, you know the Japanese is heading for Moresby. How do you derail it and manage to survive? My thought is not to go headlong after the Japanese, instead waiting some time to pick of elements as thay pass closer to New Guinia and or Australia, where they are more vulnerable and come into range of the land based Australian air bases. They will also tend to stray from the pack. It would seem to give the Americans a fighting chance, something less than 50-50 though. The Japanese are just spoiling for a heads up fight- they know they will win that if given a chance. Play a cat and mouse game as the Americans to fight a battle at a time of your choosing.


Good advice. I played Coral Sea twice and the Japs handed me my anus on a silver platter. I'm going to go get it back this morning though as I have read about different strategies here on the forums and I am ready to change my ways.

I had been going straight up to the right of Moresby and striking what I can, which left me open to all those ships the Japs have waiting. I got most everything sunk! This time I am going to stay further southwest and watch more of what my Moresby planes can find before jumping in so fast and getting blown away.

Now to go get my anus back... [;)][:@]



tedhealy -> RE: Coral Sea Much More Fun - Thoughts on Other Scens (6/10/2007 8:43:56 PM)

blastpop's advice is exactly how I play it too.  Play hide and seek and let them come to you.  All you have to do is stop the invasion, not get into a slug fest with the carriers.  Also as the US in Coral Sea, stick to the clouds as much as possible.  Get into a cloud formation during the day and try to stick to it during daylight hours.  After dusk, gun it to flank speed and head west to get into another cloud formation before dawn.



JoeBobShaw -> RE: Coral Sea Much More Fun - Thoughts on Other Scens (6/10/2007 9:21:25 PM)

That is good advice ... I think I must have some cavalry genes in my makeup someplace.

There's a lot more to this game than meets the eye, and multiplayer ought to be a blast.

Joe



LarryP -> RE: Coral Sea Much More Fun - Thoughts on Other Scens (6/10/2007 9:53:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tedhealy

blastpop's advice is exactly how I play it too. Play hide and seek and let them come to you. All you have to do is stop the invasion, not get into a slug fest with the carriers. Also as the US in Coral Sea, stick to the clouds as much as possible. Get into a cloud formation during the day and try to stick to it during daylight hours. After dusk, gun it to flank speed and head west to get into another cloud formation before dawn.


I wondered if using the clouds would work. Sometimes I don't give these games enough credit for being so smart, like the clouds. Good advice.



TheHellPatrol -> RE: Coral Sea Much More Fun - Thoughts on Other Scens (6/10/2007 10:01:55 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LarryP

This time I am going to stay further southwest and watch more of what my Moresby planes can find before jumping in so fast and getting blown away.

Now to go get my anus back... [;)][:@]
Good Luck! That's what i did in my last game trying to set a trap for the invasion force[8|]. I lost everything but a couple DD's in 2 days[X(]...sneaky bastards...i figured the Japs would send a CV group down the South-East like many times before[:-][;)].



LarryP -> RE: Coral Sea Much More Fun - Thoughts on Other Scens (6/10/2007 10:51:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHellPatrol

Good Luck! That's what i did in my last game trying to set a trap for the invasion force[8|]. I lost everything but a couple DD's in 2 days[X(]...sneaky bastards...i figured the Japs would send a CV group down the South-East like many times before[:-][;)].


What did the Japs end up doing?



TheHellPatrol -> RE: Coral Sea Much More Fun - Thoughts on Other Scens (6/10/2007 11:03:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LarryP

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHellPatrol

Good Luck! That's what i did in my last game trying to set a trap for the invasion force[8|]. I lost everything but a couple DD's in 2 days[X(]...sneaky bastards...i figured the Japs would send a CV group down the South-East like many times before[:-][;)].


What did the Japs end up doing?
Well, as i was sending my first Carrier wave at the Invasion Force/Escort low and behold a CVL group wasn't far behind...ok...i'd seen that before. I assumed the main Carrier force was way East like my last few games[8|]...nope, within a strike or two the main Jap CV force was in the mix. By the time i got my planes back all my Capital ships were sunk and as i tried to get the HELL outa there my remaining TG's were decimated as i retreated to the nearest storm clouds. Day 2 and i had 1 Aux ship and one DD[:@]. I resigned[&o][:'(].



LarryP -> RE: Coral Sea Much More Fun - Thoughts on Other Scens (6/11/2007 12:31:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHellPatrol

Good Luck! That's what i did in my last game trying to set a trap for the invasion force[8|]. I lost everything but a couple DD's in 2 days[X(]...sneaky bastards...i figured the Japs would send a CV group down the South-East like many times before[:-][;)].

Well, as i was sending my first Carrier wave at the Invasion Force/Escort low and behold a CVL group wasn't far behind...ok...i'd seen that before. I assumed the main Carrier force was way East like my last few games[8|]...nope, within a strike or two the main Jap CV force was in the mix. By the time i got my planes back all my Capital ships were sunk and as i tried to get the HELL outa there my remaining TG's were decimated as i retreated to the nearest storm clouds. Day 2 and i had 1 Aux ship and one DD[:@]. I resigned[&o][:'(].


Dang unpredictable! Well it sounds like the AI is as smart as advertised, or it cheats.[:-] I am still in the start of my next scenario. If it goes well then I will have some good news to post. Otherwise my anus will be had again and I will post that too! [:@]

I have been using the clouds but they move pretty fast. I am trying to move ahead of them to stay under them during daylight. This game is smarter than I first gave it credit for. [&:][X(]

HellPatrol: I like your tagline. I should pay attention to that more often.



NefariousKoel -> RE: Coral Sea Much More Fun - Thoughts on Other Scens (6/11/2007 1:10:58 AM)

I believe one of the SSG guys stated that the enemy AI has the same restrictions imposed on it as the player. [;)]



e_barkmann -> RE: Coral Sea Much More Fun - Thoughts on Other Scens (6/11/2007 2:16:31 AM)

yep, the AI uses the same game routines as the human player, so it gets similarly dodgy sighting reports from its planes for instance, and doesn't receive any kind of bonus for anything.

That's a pretty well crafted computer opponent I'd say.



Adam Parker -> RE: Coral Sea Much More Fun - Thoughts on Other Scens (6/11/2007 3:27:01 AM)

I've played Coral Sea 6 times now as the US. Here's my record:

US carriers lost 12.
IJN carriers lost 1.

I just can't go to the Great Barrier Reef anymore [:)]

How does one play cat and mouse with the Japanese - I personally think they're flying spotter planes out of Brisbane in this one?

Toursits [;)].



tedhealy -> RE: Coral Sea Much More Fun - Thoughts on Other Scens (6/11/2007 5:18:41 AM)

Stay in storms and at extreme distances. Pick your spot to move into range (either overnight or in a cloud bank) and make a strike . At some point during the time limit you'll get a group of storms that will provide perfect cover for an approach.

If you can get a good storm rolling through the middle of the map overnight, go flank speed to get into it to be in range for a dawn strike (sometimes the Japanese don't cooperate and move even further north out of range). Then from the eastern edge of the storm, launch as early as possible right after dawn. Even if the Japanese do find you, the storm should provide you some cover. When you recover your strike, get the hell out of dodge at flank unless you did major damage to the main carrier force.

Another option that's a little more risky is to make that flank run to a cloud bank for your strike in the afternoon. If you time it right, sometimes you can get your strike off and back just as dusk hits. If you can surprise Japanese (not bloody likely), they usually won't strike back because their planes would be landing at night.

Lots of different ways to approach the Coral Sea.



Gregor_SSG -> RE: Coral Sea Much More Fun - Thoughts on Other Scens (6/11/2007 6:27:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker

I've played Coral Sea 6 times now as the US. Here's my record:

US carriers lost 12.
IJN carriers lost 1.

I just can't go to the Great Barrier Reef anymore [:)]

How does one play cat and mouse with the Japanese - I personally think they're flying spotter planes out of Brisbane in this one?

Toursits [;)].


Damn, Alan has spotted our super secret '5th Column' option where covert Japanese teams, under a cover story of shark spotting, hire civilian aircraft and cruise over the Coral Sea, secretly reporting all his dispositions back to Tokyo.

Gregor



Rick Bradley -> RE: Coral Sea Much More Fun - Thoughts on Other Scens (6/11/2007 6:44:44 AM)

I got a marginal victory as the US in my first try at the Coral Sea. I was able to strike the 2 big guys first with only minor damage to the Yorktown. The Zuikaku was reported as sunk but in fact found out at the end that it had been badly damaged and the damaged the Shokaku also. You really can't be a cowboy because you will lose. I later got the Yorktown within range of those darn Bettys and about 3 torpedos hits did her in. Hung the Lexington around south of PM along with the surface group until it became evident that the Japanese invasion force had turned around with the damage to the two big carriers and then headed to port. I lost 79 carrier aircraft to the Japanese 127. Many of my loses were due to the Lexington being sunk and the Yorktown being far away. I have a question about that and will make it another post.

GREAT GAME, I think it has legs.




Reg -> RE: Coral Sea Much More Fun - Thoughts on Other Scens (6/11/2007 7:09:54 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris Merchant

yep, the AI uses the same game routines as the human player, so it gets similarly dodgy sighting reports from its planes for instance, and doesn't receive any kind of bonus for anything.

That's a pretty well crafted computer opponent I'd say.


SSG has always been known for the quality of their AI.....



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